Reverb, Echo and Delay

[Tim]

Over the weekend I was tweaking a couple of the patches I created in my two digital modelers (Digitech RP 100 & V-Amp2). I found myself not really understanding when to use reverb, delay or echo. Or for that matter, how much to use. I know what they do but can’t pin point down when to each effect.

Presently what I have been doing is dialing in a bit of reverb in all patches as a filler between chord strums or solo notes. Now echo and delay have me a bit confused because they almost sound the same to me. Can anybody give some examples on how you would use these three effects?

[Robert]

Echo and Delay is the same thing, Tim. I like using delay/echo when playing solos. It's really a preference thing. Country players often use "slapback" echo, meaning it is set to a very short delay time. Heavier rockers often use longer delay times. Some people prefer just a bit of reverb, and some even like the sound completely dry.

[SuperSwede]

Another example, if you listen to U2 you can hear that The Edge is using a lot of delay to create a very rich rhythm sound. The secret of this is to set the unit to play the delay sound in sync with the music. On many modern effect units you can set the delay time by pressing the TAP button on intervals that follows the music. Try to count the beats 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 along with the music, and press tap on 1 & 3.

[Tim]

Robert & Super Swede - Thanks for the response. When I hear the word reverb I think of Dwayne Eddie or surf music.




Country players often use "slapback" echo, meaning it is set to a very short delay time.

Heavier rockers often use longer delay times.



But this echo & delay is still a little foggy. Can you get me an examples with possibility some millisecond numbers. The terms “Short” and “Longer” may have different meanings to different people. Per your response:

Presently I have my Echo range set at 120-650 ms. I have three dials (Delay Time, Repeat and Delay Level). Each dial has a range from 0 –10. My dials are: Delay Time = 1, Repeat = 2, Delay Level = 1.

Is this considered a short or long setting?




Try to count the beats 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 along with the music, and press tap on 1 & 3.



And I was pressing tap on each beat. Thanks you Sir Swede!

[SuperSwede]

One millisecond = One thousandth of a second. ;)

Basically if you want the delay effect to replay play 1 second of your sound 1 time you would set the delay for :
Delay time = 1000ms
Feedback/repeat = 1

Feedback/repeat means the number of times that the sound will be replayed, a higher number will of course mean that the sound will be replayed as many times as you set the Feedback/repeat to.

Not a very bright answer, but I hope that I could "enlighten" you to some extent :D

[Tim]

Thanks Swede,

I am sitting here playing with the suggestions you gave. Is a Delay time = 1000ms considered short or long delay as in Roberts' first post. Also what would be a setting that the Edge would use?

[SuperSwede]

I tried to look for my old U2 albums but could not find them at the moment. I would say that a rather safe bet would be to try something like 500 ms for the "Where the streets have no name" intro. I guess that what is considered a "long" delay can be very individual, so try listening to different delay times and you will eventually get the hang of it. I would say that a delay time of 1000ms is a rather long delay time. Slapbacks happens at low delay times, try setting it to 100ms and repeat 1.

[Tim]

This is my "opinon" on what I think I hear.

So the "slapback" could be for fast muted chords at 100ms. Soloing could be set at 100 ms for a fill in type sound.

[Katastrophe]

I like to set the delay at different lengths of time and play harmony lines with myself. Nothing worked out, just play through different scale patterns. You can get some really funky intervals going that way!

[Robert]

You can do pretty fun things with delay, like Katastrophe says. Try playing arpeggios too. I should make a video example!

[Katastrophe]

An excellent idea, I think.:DR

[blogan]

The Edge actually uses a 3/16th (dotted 8th note) delay time. Here's a link (http://www.amnesta.net/edge_delay/) that describes it all in gory detail. If this is an effect you want to easily duplicate, the Line 6 Echo Park (http://www.line6.com/tonecore/echoPark.html) has a mode where you tap quarter notes and it automatically sets the dotted 8th time for you.

[SuperSwede]

Thanks for that info Blogan. I was trying to get Tim an easy start with synced delay, it sure is a useful effect once you figure out how it works.
I love playing with Tape echo myself, you can create really cool sounds with it.

[Tim]

Yep! Thanks Blogan and Super Swede. The information is useful. I played with my Ibanez DE 7 (Delay & Echo) last night. As Robert said earlier, Delay and echo sound the same. I don't see why they have both.

http://www.ibanez.com/accessories/spec.asp?m=18

I am learning abut the different settings and learning to "listen" to the different sounds.

Now Super Swede just threw me a hook by mentioning tape echo???

[Spudman]

Delay and echo are different. It is subtle but they are different. I think it has something to do with the decay and timbre difference between the two. Most echo is (I think) like when you are standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon and shout. For a moment you don't hear anything then the sound makes its way back to you and fades out with each repeat. I think it is more pronounced than on delay settings. I know you can set up a delay to preform almost the same way but it just sounds different.

Switch between the delay settings and the echo settings on the Vamp2 and you can clearly hear the difference.

[Robert]

Oh, I apologize for the confusion. Products are sometimes different in terminology, so it is sometimes confusing.

I made a video last night with some fun ways to play with delay, but I haven't had time yet to post it.

The Line 6 Echo Park seems like a fun pedal, since can do the dotted 8th note thing a'la The Edge.

[SuperSwede]

Tape echo is when you have a form of primitive tape deck that constantly records and plays back the sound from the guitar. The cool thing about old tape echos is that the tape heads wear out easily and they start to give back the echo in another pitch. And if it becomes really bad they can start to replay the echos in various funky speeds as well. The Tape Echo / Multi head echo in my tonelab can simulate this in a very cool way.

http://www.vintage-guitars.se/1960s_Ackuset_Super_Sound_Eko_00615.jpg

[Tim]

Wow! That is a dinosaur from way back. Surely you do not take that to gigs, do you Super Swede? That’s a nifty thing to play with. I imagine you spend quite a few hours tweaking it for the right flavor.

[SuperSwede]

Unfortunately its not mine, just a pic stolen from internet ;)

A friend of mine has a really old tape echo, but he moved far away and took the echo with him... lol

[SuperSwede]

Tim, I did a real quick recording to show you what you can do with a multi head echo. I think that multi head is really fun to play around with, and you can create really nice "carpets" of sound with it. I played two short tones in the beginning so you can hear what the effect does, and then did some "noodling" as an example...
I think you will like this type of delay... erhmm. echo... ;)

[Tim]

Super Swede - Excellent playing. I love this sound. It is close to what I have been looking for.

I would like to know what settings you used for the 3 delay samples (Speed, Repeat and Time).

I really enjoyed what I think you played as arpeggios. If I am reading the theory books correctly you must have played a chord or two during the demo that you did.

Again, I love the sound!!!

[SuperSwede]

Thanks Tim...

Vox Tonelab set to Tweed 1x12, matching Cab.

There is more options on a multi head, but if you can find a effect with similar settings, try this.

Time 400ms
Mix (the volume of the first echo) 4.7
Feedback 3.1 (or repeat on some units)
Tone 5.0 (here you can specify if the echo will be brighter or darker than the original tone. 5 on the tonelab is "neutral" so there is no coloring of the sound).
Mode 3 (the tonelab has 5 different modes of multi head echo. This one would be "ta - rest - ta - ta", again different units may have a different way of doing this...

[Tim]

Sounds like a Delay/Echo sound effect could become an adventure just by itself. I did not know this until I start to get relies back from you and Robert. A person could spend hours tweaking all the different parameters.

I have been noticing that, once again, the playing style makes a big difference with the outcome. Open chords, barr chords, muted strings and solos all have independent sound outputs. Actually a guitar player could benefit with more than one foot pedal. Or in your case several patches depending on the need.

[SuperSwede]

Absolutely, I have probably around 20 customized patches for various styles... That is what I like about modeling amps, you can have a fat bassman rhythm sound and then kick in a roaring plexi lead instantly..

[tot_Ou_tard]

Good stuff in this thread. Thanks for pointing me to it SS.

I've just begun to explore the modulation effects in the Tonelab. Just a touch for spice.

I'll give the multihead echo a try & the delay tapping on the 1 & the 3.