Ten biggest reasons I hate gigging

[deeaa*]

- You have to be careful for days in advance to make sure your voice isn't shot the gig night, i.e. not smoke much, drink lots of fluids and still chances are the voice will anyway be way less than at its best

- You have to spend all day with the thing; get the stuff ready and packed and then do the lugging at maybe 5 in the afternoon, soundcheck at seven, and then wait until maybe 11 or midnight to actually get to playing, AND not even be able to drink lots of beer before you have played, so you just sit around pissed with nothing to do for hours on end

- You're at the very lowest ebb of your performance levels at gig time, i.e. 11.pm. or so, which is when you normally go to bed, so you're already bummed out and tired before the show even starts

- Even if the gig starts super early like at 10 p.m. or something, you're still super tired because you spent the night before sleepless due to stressing about the gig

- You can't eat much stuff during the night because you don't a.) want it because you're nervous for the gig b.) you don't want to look like a snake that's just eaten on stage

- At the actual gig there's maybe 5% chance someone actually likes you and cheers, but more like 90% chance someone will ask you to play some top-40 songs you never even heard of

- You're likely to lose some cord of piece of gear on the gig, or get some beer poured on your amp

- You're likely to have to strip the stage right after the gig and in 50% of cases also lug everything into the van where it'll freeze overnight then OR alternatively you have to be there at seven in the morning to clear everything away

- You get to drinking beer properly only after the gig, by when it's at least midnight, so when the bar closes at four you've got like 3 hours of sleep left before you have to get up terribly hung over

- When it's all done you realize your share of the pay is roughly enough to pay for a new pack of strings and a third of the beer you drank after the gig at the bar

[Spudman***]

You know, I think you use the wrong word here. You say "you" all the time. I think you mean "I". Because if you mean "me" (Spudman) when you say "you" then I have to disagree with you.

I don't worry much about my voice. It either works or it doesn't.
I don't sit around pissed with nothing to do. I've got a show to put together.
I'm high energy at night, or almost any time.
I don't stress about the gig. I look forward to it.
I eat properly and am not nervous.
I don't care if people cheer. I'm cheering inside.
I don't lose stuff and take care of my gear. However, I did have half the mains go out this past Saturday and played 3 more hours anyway.
I don't drink after the gig because I have to pack up and drive home, so no hangovers.
I get my drinks free from the venue and come home with good pay.

"You" might want to change what "you" are doing.

[Jimi75]

What I really didn't like about gigging was the fact that I had to leave the family at home. We had most of our engagements on saturdays. Leaving in the afternoon and coming back at night can be seen as a lost day with the kids and the wife. Anyways, this only matters when you play 30-50 gigs a year like I did. When you play about 5 gigs a year it's something different. However, I do agree with Spud on most points. I look forward to a gig, because I hang out with my bandmates, after soundcheck we roam the city, eat together, play pool and hey that's nurturing friendship, that is the secret thing about having a band. We always felt like a gang. While having lunch together, we plan the gig and show elements. Regarding the payment...well, either the passion is so big that you play unpaid or badly paid gigs, or you really know what you are worth and claim that. I must admit though that our gigs were well paid, because most of the time we played out of the typical setting for a Blues band, means city festivals etc. and also I hated the fact when there were only 2 persons out of 100 that appreciated your music. That is the reason why, if I ever join a band again, I am goign to play only gigs where fans of the music style will be in the audience. Looking forward to my Hendrix Tribute Project that starts this May :-)
Before playing a gig I always check with the owner of the club, if he has a) a room for our stuff, b) if we we will have the key to the door to that room, c) if - best case scenario - he has an insurance for theft. I do not leave my guitars out of my eyes. Trust no one, stealing instruments is a bad thing and it happens everywhere!
Regarding carrying the equipment to the gig and back to the rehearsal room....yeah that was a plague back when we had tons of equipment, but it is also a question of how organized you are. I have reduced my equipment to the most effective setting and can easily bring my stuff to the gig and back. Same is valid for our drummer. It takes less than 20 minutes to uninstall the kit and put in in the car/bus. Luckily most clubs have their own P.A. system here :-)
One more thing regarding the meals and drinks before a gig. We have agreed on havong no alcoholic drinks before the gig, because we made some bad experiences with a drummer we played with. It was a rule - and it was a good rule! 1 or 2 beers during the gig were okay, but no more. I had no problem with that rule as my alcohol intake is almost ZERO. Having a light and healthy meal before the gig is important. Man, I don't wanna be singing and making a show with a huge pizza in my stomach...but I think that is also routine and experience that can differ from band to band.

[deeaa*]

Yeah...I also have to leave the family at home.

Well, I dunno. It's of course OK to hang out with bandmates after soundcheck...just that there's not much to do. Can't go home meanwhile really, what's there to do? Maybe play some pool somewhere, but that costs money as well. There's nothing to do in town before the night, at least that would not be costly. I'd much rather hang out with the guys at home than freezing my *** off in town, or sit in some bar drooling over drinks I can't have :-) Besides, I've known these guys since we were the size of fire extinguishers and meet a few times a week anyhow, so it's not like we're lacking in hang-out time.

What's to plan about a gig? What show? We just go there and play. I never thought of putting on a show...what does it mean? Like fireworks or something? We just play and that's it. We got the set list written down and we've rehearsed the songs and how to start each and such ages ago.

Pay...well, can't get paying gigs round here. It's just, well, forget it. Maybe if you come from 200 miles away you get some gas money. It's more like if you want any exposure, YOU pay so you can play, LOL!

Every now and then the main local rock club let bands come and play for free, and there's so many bands applying in past two years we haven't managed to push in. It's very hard unless you've got some releases, radio play or a record company backing you up to land any gigs.

Ugh. We have a gig in the centre of the town finally on Friday, and I'm already wound up like a spring about it. Damn I hate having to go and play there! I wish I could only just play with my band members forever and never have to go out in front of an audience, but alas, it's something a band has to do to survive. It's easy to notice if you don't play any gigs ever, it becomes just...nothing. When you know you have to play a gig, everyone plays totally differently and with completely different enthusiasm.

[deeaa*]

Yes of course I mean 'I'...

I guess, the thing is...if we just played some covers and easy tunes, blues and such, it'd maybe be nice...but, I tend to make all songs so difficult to play even after a dozen times of practice I still find it very hard to play my own stuff. Same with vocals; I should just sing in a natural scale and take it easy, but, boy, whenever I make songs they turn out so I'm constantly having to REALLY squeeze it to make it work...and then you find you have to play 14 of these songs you can usually only play and sing properly on the best of days...it's a horrible feeling. You know, like the whole idea of some song might be the chorus is built on this long crazy screaming thing over just one chord...only it goes like 2 octaves higher than my natural range. I can usually do that...but IF I can't pull it out live, the whole song is completely just...nothing, just sad grinding. So, yeah, I do worry about my voice working.

And, you know, I know like 95% of the audience will be band guys and also players/singers...like always on these gigs...sometimes it seems nobody ever comes to watch rock bands except competing bands and players....so it's like a room filled with 'rock police' who will eagerly comment on what you did and how and what went a little bad etc, if also something good as well.

[Jipes***]

Well Dee it looks like you don't really like it there's two ways out of it Quit or learn how to enjoy it

I did that for now more than 30 years as an amateur (around 400 gigs) ans still enjoy it as much as my first concerts in a small youth organisation hall. I met my wife in my firs real gig opening for a french singer in 1981 and we're still married

One thing is Spudmann is just trying to say that you want to share the music with the audience, sometimes it's maybe with only 3 or 4 people the others are too drunk or too bored never mind keep your focus on the ones who love the music

If it's a noisy place two ways of dealing with it, play as low as you can and sing outside of the mic that might force the respect of the audience and getting their attention. Other possibility is to play louder and use your more groovy numbers trying to put people in the mood for dancing and having a party

If you get bored before the show just take your guitar in the dressing room or a quiet place and play it nothing better than training and warming up

Money is not the whole thing you have to love what you do and play as intensely for 2 or or for 200 people and believe me it's possible and you'll love it !

I might sound a bit too paternalistic but I just want to share experience with you

[oldguy]

Wow, deea,
I haven't gigged regularly for close to 20 years, but the worst night was never like what you describe. I'd quit if it was. I'd hate even going if it was like that. I wouldn't want to play at all if it was that terrible.
I still do an occasional thing with some friends or family, and I still love it.
Even way back when, on the occasional nights a heckler was giving us a hard time, or when I played one weekend with influenza, as bad as that was, what you describe sounds horrible. I can't imagine sitting, pissed off, thinking about not smoking or drinking when waiting to start playing. We were always too pumped just waiting to get out there and wail. Maybe it's different where you live.

[deeaa*]

I guess the biggest thing is there is no real respect or, well maybe respect but not enthusiasm for unknown bands/original music, especially if it's not proper metal.

I've played maybe, I dunno, well over 100 gigs at least, and only in a mere few did the audience really react well. Sure, there may be some whistles and usually some applause, but people just sit and stare 99% of the time when unknown bands play. Occasionally there is a drunk lady or something that comes out to dance in front of the stage at best. And, sometimes, when you have a playing time starting at 01:00 a.m. or so, and people are very drunk already, then they may get into it more and there will be some people dancing, or at least wobbling about and headbanging.

But, dancing etc. is not something you ever see even with big bands. With big bands, people stand in front though and cheer and maybe headbang, but I don't know if I ever saw any dancing on a rock gig. Dance / party bands are a different matter. Rock music is mostly stonefaced, angry-looking crowd in chains and leather and don't much show their appreciation unless very drunk. They just stare at you when you play, and if you're lucky nobody shouts out stupid requests like 'Yo, play Paranoid!' or 'turn up the gain!! Play black metal!' or something :-) even the owner of the club requested we play 'our hardest stuff please'.

Well, I just lifted some of the anxiety off my shoulder; I sorted out the details and the PA system. Here's the plan:

12:00 go to training facility, play a couple of songs to loosen up some, pack up.
14:00 should have stuff in the venue, unpack and set up.
15:00 picking up the PA system (2+2k with sep. subs and monitors)
16:00 soundcheck, after which the PA guy leaves (we'll do the gig mixing ourselves, if any adjustment necessary)
-then we just wait there, maybe eat something.
20:00 the place opens for customers
21:00 we play our set, which is about an hour, regardless of whether there will yet be people or not at that time (probably not yet)
22:30 the second band plays; I'll help them with mixing and then we drink beer, take some of our stuff to safety in the back room
04:00 should already be home and pass out drunk
11:00 set off to dismantle and carry the gear, take the PA back
14:00 the whole ordeal should be over, back to normal living!

[Eric***]

Some good points in here, Dee. I found this particularly interesting though:

Damn I hate having to go and play there! I wish I could only just play with my band members forever and never have to go out in front of an audience, but alas, it's something a band has to do to survive. It's easy to notice if you don't play any gigs ever, it becomes just...nothing. When you know you have to play a gig, everyone plays totally differently and with completely different enthusiasm.

I've never played a proper gig ever -- just with friends and in church on a volunteer basis. But I agree that there's a real difference when there's a goal in mind.

My only real musical goals right now are to do some gigs eventually, probably as a pop/rock band, or maybe a few originals eventually, but I think this whole thread is useful and interesting. It's all a giant unknown to me, and while I hope it's not necessarily doom and gloom, I think I understand the points you're making.

In particular, the audience thing makes sense. I mean, I'm not exactly a barfly anyway, but I very rarely go out to see bands play unless it's music I already know. If there is a band playing, it's usually just ridiculous cover-band noise that I don't pay attention to, because I'm there talking with my friends.

[deeaa*]

"It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock'n'roll..."

Indeed. I've played in cover bands, well mostly sang in them, and that's kinda fun. That's easy, and usually the audience knows what's coming and they dig it.
Sometimes, though, especially when in more obscure cover bands...like when I was in this 70's cover band, we did stuff like Steppenwolf, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Eagles, Thin Lizzy, etc - all big hits from said bands - there were still a few occasions someone after a gig came and said:

"dude, the couple of covers you did were great, but I didn't like your own songs very much, stick with covers"
and I'm like, well, actually they are all covers...all top hits from the 70's
"yeah? Well maybe you should pick a more well-known era or songs"

Seems younger people really have never heard that kind of music before. They only listen to black metal or lady Gaga I presume, and maybe some Foo Fighters or something :-)

But, after a while, doing covers seems to me somewhat pointless. It's fun for a while, but, it'd be so much better to do your own stuff...only, then it's a real rocky road. Maybe after ten gigs in the same town you get a dozen people there who know who you are and it gets better slowly...but, it's damned hard to get there. I've been there with about 3 of my bands, which all broke up just as people were knowing us some and gigs were easy to get. At best it was good.

But, it takes years of hard work and at forty I doubt I have the strenght or enthusiasm to put in the effort and promotion and all that shaite any more.

[mapka]

I also never played on stage, but I got into that routine when I did sound for my friends band. Yes I agree, it is a "lost day" as far as the family is concerned, but I always enjoyed the ride to the venue with the band in "The Magic Bus"! Laughing and joking the whole way. Even the most arrogant musician was easy to talk to on the bus. The load in always sucked! So much stuff and no matter how easy the club made load in (ramps from the street to the stage were pure heaven) it still is back breaking work. sound check was also a little stressful, especially if you couldn't quite get that sound you wanted, of course by the time the show started it all changes so for about the first two songs you are tweeking the sound to get it right. But after you get it dialed in and barring no break downs (like losing half the mains!) it was fun. It was for those few hours that it made it all worth it. Sure, the money was not great, but I did not care. It was so much fun and how many people can say they did it in their life? Finally, the load out was always the worst. You were tired and all I wanted was a bed, but you had to endure the two hours it took to break down and pack up.

It has been years since I did it, but if given the chance I would do it again today. No regrets

[deeaa*]

Yeah, I also used to enjoy the rides with the band...some priceless memories of the bus and backstage activities indeed ;-)

I could definitely work as a soundman for a nice band...and 3-5 times a year I tag along with a friend's band for a gig or two just for that bus ride fun time and backstage and all that jive...but the thing is, in those occasions it's not your a$$ on the line onstage...

It's exactly all that anxiety that comes with the task of singer/guitarist/frontman...everything relies on you and your ability to deliver just then, because without you it's nothing. So it's pretty much all up to you to make it or break it. And then you have your hands full, gotta remember the words, songs, and do the pedal dance while singing and trying to do your best...that's mainly what makes it sucky.

My previous band, Crankenhaus, started with just the idea that since my band before that I swore I'll NEVER become the singer/songwiter/guitarist/mixer/manager again; in Crank I just played the guitar, and it was WAY less stressful, although stressful enough.

But, I guess I clean forgot what a load of work and stress it is when I got talked into the very same position again...and now I have to reap what I've sown.

Seriously, I can already foresee that if we get into gigging more the band will likely just break up at some point because I just can't take the workload and stress of handling it all myself once again.

[deeaa*]

This is great BTW to be able to output all the frustration here...

But yeah, now it also seems so clear to me what's the predicament...WORKLOAD.

Who arranges the PA an makes raiders for PA company and checks out the gear and placement?
Who's the only one who actually knows all the stuff needed and what gear and cords etc. to pack?
Who mixes the whole event after the initial setup?
Who does the setups and sometimes even the tuning for all the instruments in the band?
Who's the guy who (should) be doing promotion and letting people know of the event?
Who's arranged for other bands that come to play?
Who takes care of the addresses and the van and transports?
Who's responsible for all the songs and lyrics for his band?
Who's singing the only vocals in the whole band/plays the main guitars/turns on and off all the FX and stage lights all at the same time at any given time maybe a dozen times during one a song, while constantly singing and playing at 120bpm?
Who minds about batteries in wireless and that everyone has a backup instrument/strings etc?
Who's the guy who keeps an eye on the guys so they don't drink too much and arranges rides and time schedules?
Who prints out stage sheets and makes notifications?
Who records the event on video?
Who's likely to be the ONLY guy able to stand on two feet at eleven in the morning when we need to take down the stuff, and likely must go personally and kick at least one band buddy outta bed to help and lug the entire rig with just a few guys while hung over like hell?

Take a wild guess who's the ONLY guy doing it all...no bleeding wonder I'm stressed like a violin string.
Which reminds me to remind the bassist to bring his backup bass..his strings are at least 3-4 years old...and I also just changed and set up the other guitarist's axe and I know his high E is about to go, so I need to remember to change it for him before the gig...

[Eric***]

Yeah, I also used to enjoy the rides with the band...some priceless memories of the bus and backstage activities indeed ;-)

I could definitely work as a soundman for a nice band...and 3-5 times a year I tag along with a friend's band for a gig or two just for that bus ride fun time and backstage and all that jive...but the thing is, in those occasions it's not your a$$ on the line onstage...

It's exactly all that anxiety that comes with the task of singer/guitarist/frontman...everything relies on you and your ability to deliver just then, because without you it's nothing. So it's pretty much all up to you to make it or break it. And then you have your hands full, gotta remember the words, songs, and do the pedal dance while singing and trying to do your best...that's mainly what makes it sucky.

My previous band, Crankenhaus, started with just the idea that since my band before that I swore I'll NEVER become the singer/songwiter/guitarist/mixer/manager again; in Crank I just played the guitar, and it was WAY less stressful, although stressful enough.

But, I guess I clean forgot what a load of work and stress it is when I got talked into the very same position again...and now I have to reap what I've sown.

Seriously, I can already foresee that if we get into gigging more the band will likely just break up at some point because I just can't take the workload and stress of handling it all myself once again.

Well at least it seems we've gotten to the bottom of it. You put a lot of pressure on yourself to have a good performance, and you are the leader of the band. Even with my limited experience, I can understand that.

Just last night, I was playing with my "band", and they were asking what we should play next. I said I didn't know and they said, "Well, you're the leader." My response was kind of like what the heck? When did I become the leader? Their answer? "Uh, you've always been the leader."

So yeah...I guess I get it. You want the benefits, but not the pressure. I think that's normal, and I can relate. Maybe you could talk to your bandmates about giving you some more support in this whole thing. Sometimes something as simple as sharing the burden can do a lot to relieve stress on you. Share your goals and what you are stressing about, maybe explain some of the details, ask them for help. It's worth a shot, because right now it seems like your hobby is making you miserable.

[NWBasser]

What's the point of playing to a stone-faced and disinterested crowd?

I mean, if there's no reaction from the audience, why even bother?

[deeaa*]

What's the point of playing to a stone-faced and disinterested crowd?

I mean, if there's no reaction from the audience, why even bother?

Well, if all bands thought like that, then there would be no new bands at all coming to the scene, would there? Gotta start somewhere. Maybe after a few gigs some of those will get interested as well, if they happen to be there again. I mean, the 1st time you yourself see a band play in your usual bar, are you cheering and whatnot? I must confess, I maybe check out the guitarist's gear and then just pay attention to my friends and the drink. Maybe if I happen to see the same band again I remember it a little and it sounded interesting the first time, I might go stand near the stage for a while at least, and nod approvingly and such. Third time, if sufficiently drunk, I might get up close and applause even.

You can't choose the audience, you can only try to affect on the venue. It's luck of the draw whether someone will be there.

Many a times I've traveled 200 miles to a gig and literally played two hours for about a dozen people altogether, of which maybe six at best were in at the same time in the bar. Because there were two big name bands playing in the neighboring bars, nobody came to this bar save a few drunkards who could not care less. Except one of them kept begging us all night to play some song I never even heard of.

Another time, same city, we happen to have the playing time just as a local hockey match ended and the bar was chock full of jubilant people...the only time I ever could have stage-dived and really had everyone in the bar jumping up and down with the music.

Sadly, nine times out of ten it's the first scenario.

Our town is not big, about 90.000 people, but if there are 4 bars with live music on tonight, one is bound to be some real big name or a foreign band passing, and two some medium-league recorded bands with some following, and one a cover band. How do you compete? Not many people will come to listen to this no-name band they never heard of. What audience there happens to be is NOT there for the band; they may view the band as a plus or maybe even a nuisance if they don't agree with the style of music, but in any case they never asked for a band that night in their regular watering-hole, so the unknown band is always the underdog. You're coming there to disrupt their usual setting, forcing them to listen to music they never heard before, so yeah...it's not like you're usually super warmly welcome.

But, you gotta start somewhere or you're just playing by yourself and not getting anywhere fast.

BTW this particular gig this Friday...it's a non-drinking youth bar...so none of my friends are coming to see us play :-( they say they don't want to be amidst some teenagers and besides, what's the point if there's no beer...

[Spudman***]

Wow, this is way more complicated for you than it ever has been for me.

1. I own and carry the PA - we play 200-300 seat clubs
2. Cables are organized in their own box and done to my specifications.
3. I mix from the stage. My band mates have good ears.
4. Tune your own damn instruments. I tune mine - they tune theirs.
5. I do promotion ahead of time.
6. We don't gig with other bands often.
7. Google maps takes me right to the venue and we ride in my van with equipment and one other car.
8. I chose most of the songs and sing them too.
9. I run the lights with a foot controller.
10. Everyone should tend to their own backup needs. I assume they are men and not babies.
11. I play with mature people and moderate drinking is allowed.
12. I make the set lists.
13. I video the shows - if I remember to turn the recorder on. If I don't remember I focus on a good show anyway.
14. I do most of the tear down myself. I know where everything goes and after many years as a FOH engineer, I can coil cables faster and better than anybody. Everyone carries gear to the van.

It's like we say in food service, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." You can either delegate and have the other guys take some weight or do it all yourself and enjoy what you do. Not much else that you can do...other than lay off the caffeine.

Yes I feel some pressure doing all that I do, but I adjust myself to carry that load and plan well, and I leave a little space for contingencies just in case.

This is great BTW to be able to output all the frustration here...

But yeah, now it also seems so clear to me what's the predicament...WORKLOAD.

Who arranges the PA an makes raiders for PA company and checks out the gear and placement?
Who's the only one who actually knows all the stuff needed and what gear and cords etc. to pack?
Who mixes the whole event after the initial setup?
Who does the setups and sometimes even the tuning for all the instruments in the band?
Who's the guy who (should) be doing promotion and letting people know of the event?
Who's arranged for other bands that come to play?
Who takes care of the addresses and the van and transports?
Who's responsible for all the songs and lyrics for his band?
Who's singing the only vocals in the whole band/plays the main guitars/turns on and off all the FX and stage lights all at the same time at any given time maybe a dozen times during one a song, while constantly singing and playing at 120bpm?
Who minds about batteries in wireless and that everyone has a backup instrument/strings etc?
Who's the guy who keeps an eye on the guys so they don't drink too much and arranges rides and time schedules?
Who prints out stage sheets and makes notifications?
Who records the event on video?
Who's likely to be the ONLY guy able to stand on two feet at eleven in the morning when we need to take down the stuff, and likely must go personally and kick at least one band buddy outta bed to help and lug the entire rig with just a few guys while hung over like hell?

Take a wild guess who's the ONLY guy doing it all...no bleeding wonder I'm stressed like a violin string.
Which reminds me to remind the bassist to bring his backup bass..his strings are at least 3-4 years old...and I also just changed and set up the other guitarist's axe and I know his high E is about to go, so I need to remember to change it for him before the gig...

[Katastrophe]

Wow, Dee, I just don't remember it being that way for my band. Of course, the pay sucked (or was just nonexistent), but we didn't ever headline. I just remember loading in at 7:00, playing at anywhere from 9-11:00, then packing up after and going out for some late night grub. We limited the beer intake to one before the show, but we didn't worry what we looked like when it came to eating.

I loved the whole process, *****ing at the soundman, the butterflies in my stomach before the show, the "oh, crap" moments on stage, everything. We either hung around and listened to the other bands playing, or ran around outside in between soundcheck and the show. I didn't give a damn about the crowd or how many people cheered. I played for me and my bandmates. If the crowd enjoyed it, then fantastic, but if they didn't, then that was on them.

As far as the workload goes, DELEGATE! Tell the other guys that if this doesn't get done, then the band doesn't play. You've got perfectly able members in the band, let 'em pull their share of the work. We all had our duties before the show... If they didn't get done, then the other band members would pull that person aside and advise them of their duties. It ain't a band if nobody else works... it's a solo project with regular pickup musicians.

I hope you find the passion for gigging, man. It can be serious fun if you just roll with it!

[deeaa*]

You know, spud - that's how it used to be back in the day...exactly like you described. Be happy; you've found the equilibrium. Believe me, many a times I have seriously thought of moving back to where I was when I was in a band like you describe, in an effort to get back to something like that.

But also...no matter how much I'm *****ing about the situation...two things to consider. First, I still choose to do it, so I choose to bear with it. I MUST enjoy it at some level. Second, it's probably not quite as bad as I make it out to be. I'm just using this forum as an outlet where I know I can vent and have sympathetic ears that understand my feelings...I feel much better about the whole thing just being able to vent my worries and such to whom I've for a good while now considered good friends. And, I can be quite a nuisance to my friends..I say things too directly and even piss people off sometimes, but that's only because I know they can take it...I hope :-)

Also, I know what you're saying...I should not need to worry about them other's tunings and whatnot.

BUT the reason for that is...well I have lots of gigs behind me and many a band...and my band members have but a couple of small outings under their belt. So I kinda feel the responsibility to 'grandfather' them in and guide them. You know, they don't really know all the things a gig entails. We have no PA and they can just book a gig and not even have the sense to worry about things like PA; it just never crosses their mind, because they have no experience really.

So, I guess, despite all the *****ing, I AM kinda also enjoying the situation...while I'm just about to puke now and then out of worry ;-)