Curing Acoustic Set Up Ills.

[Cal]

Mmm you got a good point there. That'll buy me a Shiner or 2!

What Shiner said. I've been bitten twice by the "this is especially for your guitar so we're charging you twice the normal price for it" scenario. When I get my next guitar (GAS ) I'll definitely be getting an "inexpensive" digital hygrometer.

[Tone2TheBone]

What Shiner said. I've been bitten twice by the "this is especially for your guitar so we're charging you twice the normal price for it" scenario. When I get my next guitar (GAS ) I'll definitely be getting an "inexpensive" digital hygrometer.

I really appreciate you and Shiner's responses and all the great tips and instruction Dreadman has provided. This IS a great thread and cries for a sticky.

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, this has been great. Let's sticky this, and keep the discussion going. Once my guitar is fully hydrated again, there are bound to be some more questions. Wingsdad, that humidified closet, along with the info on how you treat your more sensitive guitars, is awesome. Thanks! And to Dread and the rest of you.

[wingsdad]

You're very welcome, Steve

I had to learn the hard way with my Guild what our 'high desert' atmosphere can do to an acoustic if you don't pay attention. It's frighening to hear the braces fall off a guitar's top as you're playing it. Especially one you cherish. I don't wish that experience on anyone.

[Tone2TheBone]

Stupid question here. When you've got a cool mist humidifier running in a room...do you leave the guitars out of the case or in? I've read that the guitars should be in the case but in the humidifed room. This true?

[luvmyshiner]

Tone, as long as the relative humidity in the room is running 40-50%, there is no reason to leave the guitar in the case. In fact, some people think that leaving a guitar in the case for too long can actually have detrimental effects. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know the more you can leave the guitar out of the case, the more you're going to play it.

Oops, sorry, had to edit post, that should be "40-50%" not "46-50%"

[Tone2TheBone]

Tone, as long as the relative humidity in the room is running 46-50%, there is no reason to leave the guitar in the case. In fact, some people think that leaving a guitar in the case for too long can actually have detrimental effects. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know the more you can leave the guitar out of the case, the more you're going to play it.

Well that much is certain cause I sure play the heck out of them when they're sitting all over the livingroom sofa. I've been keeping the Martin in the case lately only cause I bought one of those sponge dealios for the sound hole (Planet Waves humidifier). Now I'm wondering which is better...the 40 to 50 percent humidified room or the sponge setup with guitar in case? Like I said I never gave this a thought at all until I got the Martin.

[luvmyshiner]

Interesting, I don't know that one is necessarily better than the other. We'll see what other folks think.

[Dreadman]

I'd say a room that's of the proper humidity would be better than a humidified case for two reasons. One, the air can get even access to the whole guitar and two, there'll be no difference at all in atmosphere between where the guitar is stored and where it's played (presuming you play in the same room).

[Tone2TheBone]

I'd say a room that's of the proper humidity would be better than a humidified case for two reasons. One, the air can get even access to the whole guitar and two, there'll be no difference at all in atmosphere between where the guitar is stored and where it's played (presuming you play in the same room).

I usually play in 3 parts of the house...the bedroom, livingroom and diningroom. I keep my guitars in the bedroom especially now since I have to take care of the humidity factor. The bedroom being the best suited for that kind of control. Problem is that the bedroom is not a good place for me to keep the Martin out because it's used a lot and the foot traffic is high. Plus my wife wouldn't like a guitar hanging on the wall in our bedroom. Eventually I'm going to build another room just for my "stuff" and in that room I will have the best control over humidity as I will normally keep all doors closed. I'm supposed to go look at some hygrometers this afternoon to see what they have at the shop. At least that will tell me what I need to do in the bedroom and or case for now.

I bought a Dampit for my daughter's violin and with that kit came a paper "hygrometer" scale. I don't know exactly how accurate those are but at least it's something until I get a real hygrometer. Right now the paper is telling me the room is at 35% RH. That's without the cool mist humidifier running. I'll know tonight what it gets up to with it running.

[sunvalleylaw]

Now that I got me a nice Martin, I am taking this humidification thing a bit more seriously. I started humidifying my old guitar with sponges in bags, in the case, as discussed above, but never did get a hygrometer. Now I have one, and I have an Oasis sound hole humidifier coming, ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._ya_oh_product ). Right now I have sponges in bags under the headstock, and in the little case under where the neck connects to the body of the guitar, and one in the soundhole. I will replace the soundhole one with the Oasis when it comes.

Here is a helpful little vid I found from a guy in Montana who lives in similar northern intermountain conditions to mine on a good way to do these:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5P0_irwOPI

He says a couple sponges humidifies the case to 40%, which is what he shoots for, as he would rather have constant 40 than higher values that fluctuate. I may shoot for 45% anyway, and plan to put a little room humidifier in the closet that holds the guitar cases to give that area some base line humidification. The closet doors do not seal at all, and the closet is somewhat close to the door to the outside, so until I verify with my new hygrometer I can keep that closet at the level I want, I am going to use case humidification.

I got the cheaper of the two hygrometers that Tone noted above, the Caliber III, ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._ya_oh_product ) which you can get cheap from Amazon, and they get good reviews from the guys over at the acoustic forum. Those guys also say that if you put a sound hole humidifier in and some sponges up by the headstock, and keep them moistened, the humidity evens out throughout the case based on their placing hygrometers in various places, so it should do the trick.

Humidity in my office right now is only 21%, and outside it is reading 39% as the weather drops into winter, so it is a necessary thing.

Thought I would share what I was coming up with.

Cheers!

[player***]

actually had a Dampit when I had an antique Ovation Balladeer.lost them both and a lot of other things to hurricane(s) down south But I'd rather be back there than here in tornado alley,at least you can prepare for canes - not so with a twister.other perks down there too.been looking for a decent acoustic since

[tot_Ou_tard]

Sorry I'm late to the party. I get lost in here sometimes.

Everyone's got good advice so I don't know how much more I can add. SVL's guitar is definitely seeing the effects of low humidity. Here's a quick list of low humidity related problems:

1.) Sunken top - A "flat top" guitar isn't actually flat. The top and back are radius-ed, meaning that they are like guitar shaped sections cut out of a big ball. When humidity gets low wood shrinks, primarily in the cross-grain direction. That means the width of a guitars top tries to get smaller. First it flattens out (loses it's dome shape), then the area between the soundhole and bridge dips down

2.) Cracks - If left dry long enough the top cracks along the grain. This is because the sides are holding the edges of the top while it shrinks so it gives somewhere in the middle, like a paper towel being pulled apart by the edges.

3.) Humped neck - When overly dry the fretboard (and to some extent, the neck) wood shrinks too. The hump where the fretboard meets the body isn't actually high, it's the rest of the fretboard/neck that has gotten low. The area in question stays high because the heel is under it and that makes more wood that would have to dry out before deforming.

4.) Neck warps, twists, bows, etc.... - Wood is a dynamic material and no two pieces are alike. When over dried (or, to a lesser extent over humidified) it can do all kinds of unexpected things. If the grain curves ever so slightly then drying it out could cause exaggeration of that curve. These issues aren't especially common in comparison to the three above so I won't go on and on.


The cure for all of this (if the instrument hasn't developed a permanent defect) is simply - add moisture (as noted in previous posts). This can be done by either adding humidity to the room that the guitar lives in or adding humidity to it in it's case (room humidifier vs. case humidifier). The trick is to be patient and add moisture slowly. Several weeks is typical so don't be discouraged after a week.


Taylor guitars are built with especially thin tops (lending to their signature sound) and that's why they must be cared for especially well. A lot of people bash Taylors for this reason but it's not fair. Thin tops are a way of pushing the envelope and, just like with cars, if you're going to go high performance there are extra precautions. Speaking of Taylor, here's Bob Taylor himself explaining about humidity in guitars - http://www.taylorguitars.com/see-hear/ Watch the video called "Humidity: The Symptoms". If you look around there there is also a video called "Understanding Humidity" - both are must see material.

SVL - if re-humidification doesn't fix your hump you'll have to consider having the frets (at least the few at the neck/body) leveled and crowned. It's not too expensive, as long as the rest of the frets are in reasonable condition a luthier or tech can probably lower the offending frets for less than $50.

I didn't hear any open string buzzing in your (very pleasing) recording but if you say it's there I believe you. Do this check - Hold down the low E string at the 3rd fret and look how close the string comes to the top of the second fret. You should be able to just slide a piece of paper between them (about .005"). If it's too close to see tap on the string above the second fret wire and listen for a "clinking" sound. If you hear it there's clearance and your nut slot is fine. Repeat this on all six strings. If your nut slots are indeed low (strings touching the second fret during this test) let us know and we'll hook ya up with some DIY nut raising info.

I may add more later after I re-read this and see what I forgot. LOL

Wow, Thanks Dreadman!

You should come back to The Fret.