Guitar Wiring Help Needed

[otaypanky]

I'd appreciate if someone knows wiring that they could straighten me out here ~
I have a guitar with 2 Lollar P90's, 2 vol + 2 tone pots, and a 3 way switch.

I prefer 50's style wiring when using humbuckers with this configuration and I'd like to know if it works also with P90's. I thought it might, but when I opened it up I was puzzled by the way it's wired presently. The tone caps are soldered to the middle lug of the tone pots as seen in the photo, and they are grounded to the bottom of the same pot.

The rest of the wiring is as follows:

The pickups are soldered to the lower lugs of the volume pots, and a jumper wire goes from there to the bottom lug of the tone pots.
The wire shielding grounds to the back of the volume pots.

The outer tabs of the switch are wired to the middle lugs of the volume pots. the middle tab is wired to the output jack, with the shielding grounding on he back of the bridge volume pot.
The back tab of the switch is wired to ground at the back of the neck volume pot.

A wires from the upper lug of the neck volume goes to ground on the back of the neck tone pot, from there grounds to the back of the bridge tone pot, and from there goes to ground at the back of the bridge volume pot where the upper lug is also bent in and grounded.

So my question is, can this be wired 50's style, and if so, how do I do it.
A thousand thank you's for any help ~~~

 

[duhvoodooman]

Yes, you can change this guitar to '50s wiring, and it's almost trivially easy.

Tone caps can be wired in to controls several ways which are equivalent. Basically, as long as there's a path that runs from the volume control through a cap and a variable resistor (pot) to ground, the tone control works properly. The order of the cap and the pot makes no difference. Yours happens to be wired vol pot --> tone pot --> tone cap --> ground, which is fine.

The difference between "modern" wiring and 50's style is where on the volume pot that the wire to the tone control connects. For modern style, it connects to the input lug of the volume pot, where the pickup signal comes in. This is how your guitar is wired.

For '50s wiring, the tone control connection should be to the output of the volume control, i.e. the middle lug, or "wiper". This is the lug where the wire to the 3-way switch connects. So to change your guitar to '50s wiring, all you need to do is to move the wire running to the tone pot from the outside lug of the volume pot to the middle lug. Do it for both volume controls, obviously, but that's all there is to it.

BTW, I came across this helpful description of the impact of the two methods of tone control connection on how the guitar's controls react in THIS POSTING over at the MyLesPaul forums, and am copying it here:

"One important point is that with your volume control on 10 there is NO DIFFERENCE between 50s wiring and modern wiring. (If you can hear a difference, that would imply that your volume control was not "topping out" at 10 properly). So you won't end up with a brighter guitar (on 10) by going to 50s wiring. The difference only becomes apparent when you reduce the volume, where 50s wiring retains more treble.

Here is how I would briefly summarise the pros and cons (without going into the tonal qualities):

Modern wiring
Pros: Consistent/predictable volume control - volume control is not affected by tone control setting.
Cons: Treble rolls off as you reduce the volume.

50s wiring:
Pros: Treble is retained as you reduce volume
Cons: Tone control interacts with the taper of the volume control: (I'll try to explain)when the volume is below 10, the signal is reduced when you reduce the tone setting. This becomes more noticeable the lower the tone setting (affecting the lower frequencies more). With the tone at 0, the volume control is almost a switch, with all the volume coming in at the top end all of a sudden.

(OK, whether these are pros and cons is actually subjective).

I agree with Jonesy in that it is best for you to try it out and see whether you like the results.

IMO though -
If you tend to play with your tone at 10 all the time, then 50s is probably the better option.
If you like to use you tone control a lot, then you may or may not like the effect it has on the volume control. If you can't live with this but you want the highs to be retained at lower volumes, the alternative is to try a treble bleed. (That's what I did). I prefer modern wiring with a series treble bleed (with a high resistor value (220K). Look in the wiring library for info, it's a very simple mod. "​

 

[otaypanky]

Thanks DVM. I have done it in a couple of LP's I have but none of them were wired with those jumper wires originally. I just referred to diagrams found on the net and as you said, it was a snap. I prefer the way the volume and tone pots become more interactive and some of the sweetest and cleanest tones are found when both volume and tone are rolled down some. I have tried treble bleeds in a few Strats but found that if you go too low on the volume they loose warmth and sound too thin, bright and harsh. I did try different values of resistors.
I'll try the 50's wiring here but I realize each guitar and p/u combination can be different. So if it's not what I like I will try a bleed anyway ~
Thanks : )

 

[otaypanky]

Update ~

All is good, thanks : )

I was confused by the caps grounding to the pots and the use of jumper wires, but 1,2,3 and it's all good. I like the added control over the tone

 

[duhvoodooman]

HTH!

I assume that must be your TV Yellow double-cutaway Les Paul? Did it come with the Lollar P90's, the Sozo caps, and all that nice copper foil shielding, or was that aftermarket work?

 

[otaypanky]

It's actually a Bombshell made by John Mayes. He did the foil. I haven't changed anything about the guitar except for this wiring change. He supplied me with both a tortis and a black pickguard. the truss rod cover and the cover on the control cavity and made of ebony like the fretboard. The fret board is a thick slab too. The fretboard and neck seam is absolutely flawless, like it's all one piece, and the fretwork is perfect too. He Plek'd it too. Nice open gear Grovers.
John makes some beautiful acoustics as well ~

What is HTH ?

 

[duhvoodooman]

HTH = happy to help.

Sweet looking guitar, obviously well-made. Now that you mention it, I remember you posting about this guitar before. That is indeed a thick slab of ebony on that fretboard! The tort p/g looks good on the yellow body.