Replace-a-bass pedal?

[NWBasser]

As a bass player, this may come across as more than a bit odd but bear with me here.

I was listening to some Collective Soul, Foo Fighters and other hard rock/metal bands recently. It occurred to me that the bass parts are very simple follow-the-root in time with the drummer. While I enjoy listening to these bands to an extent, there's no way that I'd want to play much of that music on my bass. I prefer having a bit more "creative leeway" with my parts.

It got me to thinking that an electronic device, maybe a pedal, could be developed to accomplish the bass parts of straight driving root note songs. Maybe have it programmed by the guitars for the key changes and then triggered by the drummer. A sequencer of some sort is what I have in mind.

It would save bands much $$ on paying a bass player and most audiences would never know the difference.

I don't know if any such device exists, but with current technology I'm sure it could easily be done.

I fully realize that such device would have a fairly limited genre application because bass can be a big part of a band's sound. For example, Rush or Yes. And good bass playing is critical in most other genres of popular (and not so popular - jazz) music.

I'd actually buy one for when I play guitar.

 

[Ch0jin]

I know this is different to what your talking about, but I'll sometimes use a guitar with the micro POG (using only the sub octave turned up) to play bass parts/ideas into a looper and then play guitar over those.

I do actually have a bass as well, but this is the technique I use to "replace-a-bass" from time to time.

 

[Spudman]

You're idea would never work. The whole band would be thrown off kilter if they didn't have to wonder where the bass player was 5 minutes before the gig. Yes, you might save money, but it would be later consumed by the rest of the band as they drank heavily trying to get over the shock of actually starting on time.:rollover

 

[NWBasser]

You're idea would never work. The whole band would be thrown off kilter if they didn't have to wonder where the bass player was 5 minutes before the gig. Yes, you might save money, but it would be later consumed by the rest of the band as they drank heavily trying to get over the shock of actually starting on time.:rollover

:rollover LMAO!

 

[Spudman]

On another note...I have heard of Taurus, or similar, bass pedals triggering synths and arpeggiators to cover the bottom end. Is that at all like what you are thinking about?

 

[Eric]

Couldn't you actually just have something used for the bottom note of a guitar? Seems like if the guitar player is playing something other than the root as their bass note, that's what the bass player would be playing anyway. This probably sounds odd, but I'm not sure if I'd be OK with a band sans bass player. It would be kind of strange to see no bass player up there.

Relatedly, I count Collective Soul as a quasi-guilty pleasure of mine, and this song seems to have some independent bass in it:



BTW, I was kind of hoping this thread was about DI amp replacements for bass. That's something I've been meaning to ask anyway.

 

[NWBasser]

On another note...I have heard of Taurus, or similar, bass pedals triggering synths and arpeggiators to cover the bottom end. Is that at all like what you are thinking about?

What I had in mind was more compact and would sound much more like a bass guitar. Essentially a little box that you could hook into an SVT. Something that would sound like Michael Anthony or Cliff Williams. It seems to me that those sort of bass parts/sounds could easily be done with a pedal device.

 

[NWBasser]

Couldn't you actually just have something used for the bottom note of a guitar? Seems like if the guitar player is playing something other than the root as their bass note, that's what the bass player would be playing anyway. This probably sounds odd, but I'm not sure if I'd be OK with a band sans bass player. It would be kind of strange to see no bass player up there.



BTW, I was kind of hoping this thread was about DI amp replacements for bass. That's something I've been meaning to ask anyway.

Eric, I like listening to Collective Soul too.:AOK

I'm not trying to imply that stick-to-the-root bass bands are bad in any way. It's just that for a working band, you could save much money on paying a bass player and get pretty much the same results. It might look a bit odd without a bass player, but I doubt if very many people could tell any difference with their ears. An 8-string guitar wouldn't really sound the same as a bass, but a sequencer pedal could get very close.

DI amp replacement? Could you be a bit more specific?

 

[R_of_G]

I'm not trying to imply that stick-to-the-root bass bands are bad in any way.

See also Waters, Roger.

I've heard "better" bass players play Pink Floyd songs but in the end, it's only right to my ears when it's Waters.

I do like your idea though. It works not only for working musicians looking for an affordable alternative to another band member, or for someone taking the DIY approach as well.

An 8-string guitar wouldn't really sound the same as a bass

Unless it's played by Charlie Hunter and then with his rotary pedal and chord phrasing you get an organ player for no additional price. He's a drum machine away from being a one man band.

 

[NWBasser]

Didn't Gilmour play a lot of the bass parts though?

Water's greater talent lies in his songwriting than bass playing.

 

[NWBasser]

BTW - That Charlie Hunter vid is incredible!

That looks like some bass/guitar combo instrument. I've never seen anything like it!

 

[Eric]

DI amp replacement? Could you be a bit more specific?

Well, my bass-playing friend from my old church always has to go direct when he plays, since they want everything direct and with IEMs whenever possible. He has an EBMM Stingray 5-string and doesn't like the DI'ed tone when compared to some tones he hears through even cheap amps. I'm pretty sure he's going through some $20 ART DI box, which probably doesn't help.

So I was wondering what bass players use in this sort of situation to give their bass some life and a little more amp tone. Do you take an XLR out from an amp head, buy a nicer DI box, or what? I've suggested the Tech 21 BDDI to him since I know that plenty of pros use them, but when he asks what it does, I usually don't have an answer for him. Seems like it's just a big EQ with a drive control and a DI box bolted on.

In case it's not apparent, he's fairly new to bass (>2 years), so he's not real well versed with the standard bass setup.

 

[Eric]

BTW - That Charlie Hunter vid is incredible!

That looks like some bass/guitar combo instrument. I've never seen anything like it!

I saw him play once, and I think he has two outs on the guitar -- one for the bass strings that he must run to a bass amp and another for the guitar. I heard it's some custom-made jobby.

 

[Eric]

I'm not trying to imply that stick-to-the-root bass bands are bad in any way. It's just that for a working band, you could save much money on paying a bass player and get pretty much the same results. It might look a bit odd without a bass player, but I doubt if very many people could tell any difference with their ears. An 8-string guitar wouldn't really sound the same as a bass, but a sequencer pedal could get very close.

I guess what I was saying is that in those root-note-on-the-beat types of bands, the guitar is almost always playing the root as their bass note too, and if they're not (e.g. D/F#), the bass is probably also playing an F# in that case. So if you could just get a way to split off the bass note of the guitar and amplify that like a bass, you'd probably have what you're looking for.

Of course, that would require a guitar player to actually have good timing and rhythm, but that's another story...

 

[R_of_G]

I saw him play once, and I think he has two outs on the guitar -- one for the bass strings that he must run to a bass amp and another for the guitar. I heard it's some custom-made jobby.

Correct. It was custom made for him to his specs by Novak guitars. He uses two outs, one for the three lowest strings to a bass amp and one for the five high strings to a guitar amp. See him live and close your eyes. You forget how many musicians are playing.

As for the Floyd question. If Gilmour played some of the bass parts in the studio, I was previously unaware of it.

 

[NWBasser]

I guess what I was saying is that in those root-note-on-the-beat types of bands, the guitar is almost always playing the root as their bass note too, and if they're not (e.g. D/F#), the bass is probably also playing an F# in that case. So if you could just get a way to split off the bass note of the guitar and amplify that like a bass, you'd probably have what you're looking for.

Of course, that would require a guitar player to actually have good timing and rhythm, but that's another story...

That would probably work for what I have in mind. Take the guitar chord and process it into a bass note. That would do the trick unless the guitarist start soloing...

 

[NWBasser]

Well, my bass-playing friend from my old church always has to go direct when he plays, since they want everything direct and with IEMs whenever possible. He has an EBMM Stingray 5-string and doesn't like the DI'ed tone when compared to some tones he hears through even cheap amps. I'm pretty sure he's going through some $20 ART DI box, which probably doesn't help.

So I was wondering what bass players use in this sort of situation to give their bass some life and a little more amp tone. Do you take an XLR out from an amp head, buy a nicer DI box, or what? I've suggested the Tech 21 BDDI to him since I know that plenty of pros use them, but when he asks what it does, I usually don't have an answer for him. Seems like it's just a big EQ with a drive control and a DI box bolted on.

In case it's not apparent, he's fairly new to bass (>2 years), so he's not real well versed with the standard bass setup.

The Sansamp Bass Direct DI emulates a tube bass amp and sends that signal. Very touchy controls and no dedicated mid control, but lots of players love them and it would probably work aces for your friend. Keep in mind that they can take a bit to dial in, but have some very nice tones on tap for the bit of effort.

 

[Eric]

The Sansamp Bass Direct DI emulates a tube bass amp and sends that signal. Very touchy controls and no dedicated mid control, but lots of players love them and it would probably work aces for your friend. Keep in mind that they can take a bit to dial in, but have some very nice tones on tap for the bit of effort.

Interesting. Do you have any other advice on how to get a good tone when a bass player is going DI to the mixer? What would be your preference, if not the Sansamp Bass Driver DI?

 

[progrmr]

When I left my church band they used bass tracks from a Band In a Box type of program lol! Hey, it worked and we'd do the same thing if the drummer called off at 6am Sunday morning.

I dig some off the bass parts in classic rock a lot - much less follow the root and some decent lines.

I've been playing more bass lately and checking out some rock bass lines. Unfortunately your right about the lack of "style" in a lot of the lines. As much as I love the rock, almost every other genre is much more interesting from a bass perspective.

I say develop your Replace-a-bass pedal to spare any more bassists from the monotony of rock bass and let them focus on blues, funk, R&B, and jazz!

 

[guitartango]

When I left my church band they used bass tracks from a Band In a Box type of program lol! Hey, it worked and we'd do the same thing if the drummer called off at 6am Sunday morning.

I dig some off the bass parts in classic rock a lot - much less follow the root and some decent lines.

I've been playing more bass lately and checking out some rock bass lines. Unfortunately your right about the lack of "style" in a lot of the lines. As much as I love the rock, almost every other genre is much more interesting from a bass perspective.

I say develop your Replace-a-bass pedal to spare any more bassists from the monotony of rock bass and let them focus on blues, funk, R&B, and jazz!

Why not let the keyboard player play the bass bits like Ray Manzarek did in the Doors? Or buy a cheap synth and programme it yourself.

 

[Eric]

Why not let the keyboard player play the bass bits.

That's a good point. Many times they do anyway if the bass isn't turned up enough, at which point the bass player is just there for show.

 

[NWBasser]

When I left my church band they used bass tracks from a Band In a Box type of program lol! Hey, it worked and we'd do the same thing if the drummer called off at 6am Sunday morning.

I dig some off the bass parts in classic rock a lot - much less follow the root and some decent lines.

I've been playing more bass lately and checking out some rock bass lines. Unfortunately your right about the lack of "style" in a lot of the lines. As much as I love the rock, almost every other genre is much more interesting from a bass perspective.

I say develop your Replace-a-bass pedal to spare any more bassists from the monotony of rock bass and let them focus on blues, funk, R&B, and jazz!

Exactly!!

Yeah, a lot of the classic rock had fairly good bass parts, but those other genres are where the fun lies.

 

[Bookkeeper's Son]

BTW - That Charlie Hunter vid is incredible!

That looks like some bass/guitar combo instrument. I've never seen anything like it!

Meet Ralph Novak and Novax guitars, Charlie Hunter's guitar-maker. I met Ralph not too long ago, when he was playing a gig at Cozmic Pizza in Eugene. Got to play his guitar, too. The fanned fret thing is interesting.....

http://www.novaxguitars.com/index.html

 

[NWBasser]

Meet Ralph Novak and Novax guitars, Charlie Hunter's guitar-maker. I met Ralph not too long ago, when he was playing a gig at Cozmic Pizza in Eugene. Got to play his guitar, too. The fanned fret thing is interesting.....

http://www.novaxguitars.com/index.html

I'm aware of the Novak fanned fret system from Dingwall basses. Interesting idea.

 

[NWBasser]

Interesting. Do you have any other advice on how to get a good tone when a bass player is going DI to the mixer? What would be your preference, if not the Sansamp Bass Driver DI?

I think the SABDDI is likely a good bet for that situation. Out front, the bass sound will really be dependent on the quality of the power amps and speakers. Bass will really punish bad speakers.

 

[R_of_G]

Meet Ralph Novak and Novax guitars, Charlie Hunter's guitar-maker. I met Ralph not too long ago, when he was playing a gig at Cozmic Pizza in Eugene. Got to play his guitar, too. The fanned fret thing is interesting.....

http://www.novaxguitars.com/index.html

That's very cool. I'd love to pick his brain about guitar.

We met Charlie about five years ago before one of his shows. We got to the venue as they were loading in because my friend knew the owner. He let us in and Charlie recognized my friend from some other shows. He was super cool and invited us in to listen to the soundcheck. He didn't let me play the guitar though that would have been something.