Long Term Learning Projects

[R_of_G]

So how many others have experienced the situation I am about to describe... You have a piece of music that is one of your all time favorite pieces of music, and you want to learn how to play it, only there is no sheet music or tablature readily available, so you have to learn it note by note on your own, and it is a LONG piece of music with many different sections.

For example, my long term project is learning all of Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album. I have figured out the 2 minute intro McLaughlin plays, but after that, I am still exploring for correct notes/chords. Every now and then when I practice, I try to hash out a new piece of this masterpiece, sometimes more succesfully than others, in hopes that I can eventually put it all together into the whole piece. I just remind myself that, ultimately, there are only 12 possibilities each time for which note it's going to be [finding which specific "A#" or which "C" etc, is part 2 of the process]. It's slow but it's fun. I've also taken to putting the tuner next to the speakers and finding notes that way, or running the song through garage band and using the electronic tuner to find notes. It's excrucitatingly slow, but is it ever rewarding to add pieces to the song.

Anyone else have a long-term learning project like this, and if so, how's it going?

 

[Robert]

Ahh, I don't have your patience! I am just too lazy. I guess I just love to improvise and make things up.

I admire your attitude and focus.

 

[333maxwell]

So how many others have experienced the situation I am about to describe... You have a piece of music that is one of your all time favorite pieces of music, and you want to learn how to play it, only there is no sheet music or tablature readily available, so you have to learn it note by note on your own, and it is a LONG piece of music with many different sections.

For example, my long term project is learning all of Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album. I have figured out the 2 minute intro McLaughlin plays, but after that, I am still exploring for correct notes/chords. Every now and then when I practice, I try to hash out a new piece of this masterpiece, sometimes more succesfully than others, in hopes that I can eventually put it all together into the whole piece. I just remind myself that, ultimately, there are only 12 possibilities each time for which note it's going to be [finding which specific "A#" or which "C" etc, is part 2 of the process]. It's slow but it's fun. I've also taken to putting the tuner next to the speakers and finding notes that way, or running the song through garage band and using the electronic tuner to find notes. It's excrucitatingly slow, but is it ever rewarding to add pieces to the song.

Anyone else have a long-term learning project like this, and if so, how's it going?

I'm like Robert, but WORSE!

I am so lazy I just make up my own songs, vs trying to figure out others..

My first gig ever I was a kid and I had a guitar for maybe 2 weeks.. I lived in a tourist town and this guy owned an outfit where he would load people into this big military type vehical, and take them up this incredibly steep and scenic rocky mountain roadless pass.. at the top they would eat steaks and drink beer,

He was trying to find a 'musician' to come play 'folk songs'.. I applied.. I only knew a few basic chords at the time..

I got the gig.. 15 bucks a night and a free steak and lots of little girls running around .. I was in heaven.. except for one thing.. I didn't know ANY songs, let alone folk songs..

I was pretty nervous the first night, for a lot of reasons.. then it came time to 'play' around the campfire.. and I was just ON.. I asked 'what does everyone want to hear.. and lots of people made suggestions, and I pulled out of my hat.. 'oh ya, I know that one I think'.. and I started just playing songs (basicly in C G and F) and making up words about Dogs and stuff.. people were loving it..

One old woman came to me at the end of the night and slipped me 20 dollars and told me she hadn't heard 'that' song I did since her grandfather used to play her to sleep with it..

If course there WAS no songs.. I was just making it ALL up..

I learned a lot of lessons that night, and applied it most every gig since..

get em drunk, get em involved, get em curious and then tell them it is exactly what they asked for..

________

Sorry to ramble, haven't thought about it for a few decades now.. *G*

 

[Jimi75]

Regaring lenght of a piece of music in minutes I haven't done/transcribed anything longer that 10 minutes. Regarding the aspect with finding the right notes and working without tabs, I did that with SRV's Lenny. Sometimes I like this approach, but most of the time I just want to play and do not have the patience to work things out that way. I have a well educated practicing manner though.

 

[Fingers]

Hmmmmm........had the same problem......but not the patience........

I invariably start as you have........ then get bored...... then improvise to get some thing that is close, or sounds right in the piece.......

I have found it easier as I build up my knowledge of scales and modes...although in jazz...anything goes.........

I find now I prefer to admire a piece, solo, lick or riff and then put my interpretation in.......in other words....be me......

R-of-G, I admire your tenacity.

 

[Spudman]

I too find little reward (just can't do it) in learning note for note. I do get key phrases and signature parts down as close as possible though, just not the whole song. If I find a part that is interesting, challenges me and I think it will be great to have in my arsenal of licks then I'll spend time on it.

But then I realize that due to my age my memory is just not going to hang on to it anyway. I mean...a whole song...that's a long time to remember all those notes and beats and...what was I talking about?

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

But then I realize that due to my age my memory is just not going to hang on to it anyway. I mean...a whole song...that's a long time to remember all those notes and beats and...what was I talking about?

My gawd...there are those..... ..... .... again... the older people get... the more they understand.... my dots....

huh.... wha.... wher...uhhh..

 

[Fingers]

My gawd...there are those..... ..... .... again... the older people get... the more they understand.... my dots....

huh.... wha.... wher...uhhh..

I jes.......lurv my..........dots...........

Hey, Justaguyin.............don't you think those dots just add sumpin' to the bland words on the screen.........You know.........like....give it expression?

 

[guitartist]

Heck, there are a couple of songs that I've been trying to learn for several years that I've actually got tab for! Mystery Train and The Girl from Ipanema are two songs I've loved since childhood which I've just never been able to get right...you'd think with tab I could do it...every so often I'll give those songs another go, and get a little closer to how they're supposed to actually sound.

I've never had the patience or the ear to be able to figure stuff out note-for-note very well. An old friend of mine who plays keyboards has a real talent for doing that, he figured out all of ELP's "Tarkus" (which is a whole album side) - heck I can never even remember how to play a piece of music that long, much less figure it out by ear! He also figured out the theme song of the old sixties tv show "The Outer Limits" and programmed every single instrument's part into his sequencer...sounds amazing, exactly like its original arrangement with full orchestration.

Wish I had the patience, and more importantly, the ears, to do that sort of thing.

 

[R_of_G]

There are plenty of songs that I couldn't learn in their entirety, so I made utilitarian use of the riffs and progressions I could learn, and that has been a lot of fun. However, when it comes to "In a Silent Way" and "Mercy Mercy Mercy" [both wirtten by Joe Zawinul], it was all or nothing. One I can play, the other, much longer piece, I am still working on, but as rewarding practicing goes, adding even a single note to that is still more rewarding than a good improv can be [not that that isn't fun too]. most of my practice is improv oriented, though more and more when I feel like playing a "song" it's "In a Silent Way."

 

[sunvalleylaw]

At this stage, I do try to copy what an artist is doing note for note as best I can at least some of the time, because I can learn from it. Not that I can do it always. But what I am doing is pretty rudimentary still. I am trying to learn more and more of "Sultans of Swing" because I think I can learn a lot from Knopfler. Also, I continue to work to improve my Neil Young acoustic stuff (Old Man, Harvest era stuff) because I think I can learn skills there that I can apply elsewhere, and really enjoy trying to get what he was doing. Beyond the sheet music, I try to find Youtube vids to watch and see what I can see. Sheet music doesn't always seem to tell the whole tale. I watch the performance, try to get the basic gist of what is going on, and try to copy as much more as I can as I learn. That way, when I play improv or just songs for myself, I can incorporate skills as I learn them. I could see side 2 of Abbey Road being a long term project, but I haven't started that yet. R

 

[R_of_G]

At this stage, I do try to copy what an artist is doing note for note as best I can at least some of the time, because I can learn from it. Not that I can do it always. But what I am doing is pretty rudimentary still. I am trying to learn more and more of "Sultans of Swing" because I think I can learn a lot from Knoppfler. Also, I continue to work to improve my Neil Young acoustic stuff (Old Man, Harvest era stuff) because I think I can learn skills there that I can apply elsewhere, and really enjoy trying to get what he was doing. Beyond the sheet music, I try to find Youtube vids to watch and see what I can see. Sheet music doesn't always seem to tell the whole tale. I watch the performance, try to get the basic gist of what is going on, and try to copy as much more as I can as I learn. That way, when I play improv or just songs for myself, I can incorporate skills as I learn them. I could see side 2 of Abbey Road being a long term project, but I haven't started that yet. R

2 Notes on your excellent post Sunnyvalley...

1. we can ALL learn a lot from Mark Knopfler. Though I have never been a fan of his tone, his licks are superb, and the afforementioned "Sultans of Swing" solo is a masterpiece.

2. I have learned the so-called "Abbey Road Medley" and it is as rewarding as you think it will be. as I mentioned in a prev post, I am a HUGE Beatles fan, and my first songbook was a complete beatles' book. i wore out the pages for the abbey road and let it be stuff first.

 

[guitartist]

"In a Silent Way" and "Mercy Mercy Mercy" [both wirtten by Joe Zawinul]

Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"

 

[R_of_G]

Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"

That is the one I learned to play [basically playing his horn lines and zawinul's chord phrasings from the fender rhodes. that particular version of that particular song stands atop the list as my single favorite piece of music. no other piece of music ever recorded can put a smile on my face faster than that song. what's cool is that zawinul also wrote my second fav [In a Silent Way], so technically speaking, he is my favorite song writer.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"

I had never consciously knew the title of that song (though I have heard and enjoyed it) before and had not heard that version that I remember. It is really nice!

Here is a link to a decent recording sound wise by an outfit called Cubic Jam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJFzg0CllI

 

[guitartist]

That is the one I learned to play [basically playing his horn lines and zawinul's chord phrasings from the fender rhodes. that particular version of that particular song stands atop the list as my single favorite piece of music. no other piece of music ever recorded can put a smile on my face faster than that song. what's cool is that zawinul also wrote my second fav [In a Silent Way], so technically speaking, he is my favorite song writer.

Joe Zaniwul was in Cannonball Adderley's band, wasn't he? It's been a while since I've listened to the cd, but it seems like on the "Mercy Mercy Mercy" cd between songs Cannonball says something to that effect. (I suppose I could google it, but its more fun to ask you. ) That is a wonderful tune, hats off to you for learning it.

 

[R_of_G]

Joe Zaniwul was in Cannonball Adderley's band, wasn't he? It's been a while since I've listened to the cd, but it seems like on the "Mercy Mercy Mercy" cd between songs Cannonball says something to that effect. (I suppose I could google it, but its more fun to ask you. ) That is a wonderful tune, hats off to you for learning it.

yes, zawinul played with adderley [that band recorded mercy mercy mercy] as well as with miles [on in a silent way, and other projects] as well as the band weather report.

 

[Tig]

Here's a lesson you might enjoy, R_of_G...

http://markweinguitarlessons.com/fo...859-Lick-of-the-Week-Horn-Lines-2-Miles-Davis!

(dredging up old threads today)

 

[news_watch]

First post.
Clear as the Driven Snow - Doobie Brothers.
2+ years endevor and all tabbed now, just gotta learn the licks better.

 

[R_of_G]

Here's a lesson you might enjoy, R_of_G...

http://markweinguitarlessons.com/fo...859-Lick-of-the-Week-Horn-Lines-2-Miles-Davis!

(dredging up old threads today)

Thanks for finding this one, and thanks to Mark for posting the lesson.

 

[Meritone Music]

So how many others have experienced the situation I am about to describe... You have a piece of music that is one of your all time favorite pieces of music, and you want to learn how to play it, only there is no sheet music or tablature readily available, so you have to learn it note by note on your own, and it is a LONG piece of music with many different sections.

For example, my long term project is learning all of Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album. I have figured out the 2 minute intro McLaughlin plays, but after that, I am still exploring for correct notes/chords. Every now and then when I practice, I try to hash out a new piece of this masterpiece, sometimes more succesfully than others, in hopes that I can eventually put it all together into the whole piece. I just remind myself that, ultimately, there are only 12 possibilities each time for which note it's going to be [finding which specific "A#" or which "C" etc, is part 2 of the process]. It's slow but it's fun. I've also taken to putting the tuner next to the speakers and finding notes that way, or running the song through garage band and using the electronic tuner to find notes. It's excrucitatingly slow, but is it ever rewarding to add pieces to the song.

Anyone else have a long-term learning project like this, and if so, how's it going?

you've got a great approach going, one that will pay you back in increased musicality and understanding of music.

I too spent days, weeks, months learning pieces by ear when I was a kid and I'm sure I wouldn't have the aural abilities I do now if I hadn't - it's WELL worth it! Plus, as long as you're learning something you LOVE, you will keep the flame of inspiration burning... WINNING

 

[R_of_G]

you've got a great approach going, one that will pay you back in increased musicality and understanding of music.

I too spent days, weeks, months learning pieces by ear when I was a kid and I'm sure I wouldn't have the aural abilities I do now if I hadn't - it's WELL worth it! Plus, as long as you're learning something you LOVE, you will keep the flame of inspiration burning... WINNING

Thanks.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Wow, another good thread resurrection. (I am personally not opposed to waking up old ideas and discussing them). It has been like 5 years since I posted in this thread. Now, I am involved in a group lesson that has us learning some rock solos for the purpose of learning what the artist was doing, and how to do it. For instance, we did most of Hendrix's version of "Watchtower", which was a real eye opener for me. I had not thought very clearly about bending in time on purpose, for example, bending straight to the pitch in time, so one does not really hear the bend up, and alternatively in another place in the song, hitting the bottom note, then bending to the pitch over the course of a quarter note, etc. It really opened my eyes. In that particular piece, Jimi stays pretty much "in the pocket" in terms of time, and it was really fun to try and do. I never did get the entire piece completely up to full speed, but it is a piece I will keep going back to over the long haul. I think it would be fun to cover the piece at say 80% full time.

Now we are working on the solo from (if you can believe it), Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water". Not my favorite piece by a long shot, but it is a good challenge to learn what Blackmore was doing in the solo. Most of his bends are straight to pitch, or pre-bent, and those bends are combined with staccato runs of 16th notes, and some other stuff. A good challenge. I am about half way through, but only at half speed. I can get the bending down fine, but when I get the the runs of 16ht notes, I can stumble a bit. A good learning exercise though. Probably not a song I will keep going back to for a long time after we finish in class, but a good song to learn from.

For myself personally, I have always gone back to Mayer's "Gravity" and tried to copy him pretty much note for note. I have some of the leads down pretty well, but I am still struggling with the rhythm parts. I have been playing along with the studio version, which has two guitars, but I would like to study the trio version and learn to cover rhythm and lead like John does in the song. Also, it is a good, peaceful song for me just to enjoy.