2006 Gibson Gold top Classic Checking already

[red]

I really dont like the lets get on the gibson sux bandwagon etc etc because frankly if you havent owned one you dont have much to say on the matter and lastly you will always hear more negative comments on any product as opposed to how great a product is......

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. Let me start right off the bat in saying that

1. I am a Gibson owner; and I've obviously owned the BJA Les Paul Jr I've written about. So I did and I do own one, thus according to your criteria I am officially allowed to have an opinion.
2. I think we're both right, just looking at this from different angles.

Let me elaborate on that: you fine US citizens are lucky to be able to go into a shop and pick a guitar. Most EU countries, even economically advanced ones, don't really have an official Gibson repair center. There's one in one country, and it works for a bunch of neighbouring countries. Many places (especially the Eastern part of the EU) either don't have a Gibson dealer at all, or the dealer refuses to stock anything above Les Paul Studios or the equivalent SGs. You can order a guitar from them that they don't stock, but they make you pay about 20% of the price upfront, and they usually disagree with you on what you consider faults of the instrument, so you might as well order online from another EU state.

And let's talk prices: you can get a Les Paul Standard guitar from Musician's Friend in the US at $2000. In Europe, the same guitar is 2000 Euros, but 1 Euro = 1.5$. So the same guitar that you pay $2000 for costs me $3000.

So, considering I have to pay a lot more, and end up buying from one country and having to send the guitar back for warranty issues to yet another country, I would expect my guitar to be, if not perfect, then at least structurally sound and very playable.

Even if I might chuck my experience to bad luck for the one guitar I happened to receive, the international pricing policy is Gibson's thing. Where they have authorized repair centers is Gibson's thing. The way they respond to warranty issues is Gibson's thing. What the warranty covers is Gibson's thing. And for all those reasons, I will never buy another new Gibson for as long as I live in Europe. Though I cringe at being referred to as "on the Gibson bashing bandwagon".

As for your argument that you hear more negative comments about a product than good: first of all, I don't know if that's quite true, and second, the correct criterion is probably the good/bad comment ratio. I think Gibson's got a pretty bad one right now. It doesn't seem to happen for Victoria Amplifiers, or Durham Electronics, or Keeley's pedals nearly as much as for Gibson. In fact, I would argue that it's exactly the other way around: when you buy something expensive like a Gibson, you really want to love that instrument, so you'd try everything you can to either fix minor issues, or post-rationalize the purchase, before resorting to bad reviews and unpleasantness.

I do agree that, if properly made, a Gibson guitar can be a Very Nice Thing (TM), but they just don't seem to care hard enough these days. They've grown fat and lazy.

Another thing you might find interesting, is that at the time I asked a couple of US online shops if they'd send over a Gibson. They replied that yes, they send packages internationally no problem, but that Gibson does not allow them to sell Gibson products overseas. You can only buy a Gibson guitar from the US in Europe if you buy from an individual seller on eBay or something like that.

I'll shut up now, just needed to say that.

 

[ZMAN]

Hey Red: I understand your issues, I am in Canada and we have the same problems to a lesser extent. But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion. What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons. At no time did I slag Gibson. I have 5 Gibbys and they are amazing guitars. The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.
I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. A couple of issues of checking will not worry me. I must admit I have an address in the US, and I can get those deals. But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product. If you decide to sell it down the road you will get what you paid for it plus!
I agree with Muddy. And now I am sorry I even put this thread out there. It was not intended for this purpose.

 

[Kodiak3D]

Don't feel bad, Z. You brought a valid issue to view.

 

[red]

But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion.

Well, I'm sorry if that ended up being somewhat off-topic, it was in reply to mudcat's comments, and I was just pointing out that people in different areas of the world might have conflicting but equally valid viewpoints on the same issue.

I've explained all these things out of respect for our conversation - I dislike generic authoritative arguments ("that's my opinion and it's absolute truth") - so I try to explain myself out of respect for my interlocutors. That's why my geographical location was relevant to the conversation.

What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons.

You have touched more than briefly, and quite vehemently, on what the Gibson warranty covers, an issue that applies to all their products not only chambered guitars. Thus I believe I was on-topic in telling you that story that shows that even greater defects (such an improperly installed truss-rod) will not be fixed under warranty if that can be done by any technicality. Believe it or not, I wanted to tell that story to make you feel better about the checking. If I misunderstood your topic and went overboard with it, my apologies.

The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.

That sounds a bit patronizing, and it really is not the issue. I ended up with a Custom Shop Gibson in that deal with the dealer I wrote about, and that guitar is fine, so I got one better than the one I coveted. At huge cost. Not being able to get what I want is not the issue here, HOW I ended up getting it is.

I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. [...] But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product.

I'm happy for you, but having to pay 50% extra for the same thing does not happen for Fender products, or BOSS products, or Electro-Harmonix products, and so on. I can understand a slightly higher price, but 50% extra is a bit steep, especially at high prices like Gibson has.

I live in Romania, which is in Eastern Europe. Here, making 1000 Euros per month is considered an enviable salary. Most doctors usually don't make that much. And your bills come out of that. So I don't make >50% more in salary than somebody in Canada or the US does. I make at least 50% less.

I find it very interesting that everybody seems to be full of compassion for your checked finish, but somehow me having to pay through the nose for a bad truss-rod in a new Gibson instrument is something I deserved, and I'm on the "Gibson bashing bandwagon".

If it helps, I'm bitterly sorry that I've ever written in this thread as well.

 

[ZMAN]

Well that is interesting. There isn't the same markup on Fender and other musical accessories. I thought you meant that everything is 50% higher where you are. Our prices range up or down with the dollar exchange to US bucks. The MSRP is never what you pay for a guitar, there is always the street price, that is usually about 30% above what the dealer pays for it. The larger the dealer usually the lower the price. Most dealers will match the large online dealers prices. To be truthfull I have only purchased two out of my 5 Gibsons brand new. The rest were puchased used. There were a lot of good deals with the recession.
I guess I read your comments wrong, but this forum has always been a family type atmosphere, and we try to be helpfull and constuctive. There isn't a lot of bashing of anything around here.
I would be upset if I had a bad truss rod in any of my guitars. And your experience seemed to work out in the long run.
Most of the responders to this thread, know me as a regular here, and know how I feel about my guitars being pristine. I am not a relic type of guitar owner.
It is interesting to find out where you are from. We have people from all over the world and it is always interesting to see what issues people in the rest of the world have in obtaining guitars and musical accessories.
I think I have given Gibson enough time to get back to me so I will be emailing them today for an answer, and I will update as soon as I get one.

 

[wingsdad]

Z, I think the finish checking isn't so much due to the chambered (or hollow, or semi-hollow) body as it is more likely related to this point that Plank hit on:

...
I think the problem with this guitar is an oops in manufacturiung. Somewhere, somehow, something wasn't right where the clear coat met the body at the point of checking, and it wasn't evident when it shipped.

And that, then falls under the typical warranty verbage of 'defect in workmanship and/or materials'....

I'm not intent on bashing Gibson, but for any manufacturer to summarily not cover the finish like that...to thus rule out the possibility that they may have screwed up in manufacture...:thwap

Just to compare manufacturer's attitudes: Washburn --- I doubt if anyone will put them in the same league as Gibson --- stood up on a slight, almost hidden (in the crook where the neck meets the body under the upper bout curl) flaw in the application of the finish on the M6SW mando I bought, pointed out over the phone to them by my dealer. They offered for me/him to send it back and they'd replace it. Instead, because I didn't want to take a chance on getting a replacement that might not sound as good....(the magical solid woods thing with an acoustic instro) we asked for a reasonable price adjustment and suggested an amount. They offered to do that, and we accepted. The whole thing, dealing with an instro with an MSRP at the time of about $1400 or so USD was settled in a 10-minute phone call, to everyone's convenience and satisfaction.

 

[oldguy]

FWIW,
I've owned two Les Pauls (a Custom and a Deluxe), one Flying V, and one SG over the years. They were all fine playing instruments. The Deluxe developed severe checking, the SG mild. The others never had any.
I bought one Strat brand new around 1972, and it developed a twisted neck issue, which was a nightmare to try and get repaired. Fender didn't seem to care, even after phone calls and letters from the dealer I bought it from.
I bought a new Carvin guitar, which was a beauty, and two Carvin amphs, which were headaches from day one. Go figure. The amphs got fixed after about six months, shipping back and forth, and lots of phone calls...."when will it be fixed?"......"dunno, soon, hopefully........what did you say the problem was again?"...........AAARRRGGHHHHHH!
I tend not to paint any company's attitude to a particular problem w/ too broad a brush. Some people who make the call for any given company can be stinkers from time to time.
Sorry to get O/T here Z, just my experiences.

I hope you get your issue resolved to your satisfaction, and soon.
And thanks for bringing this to folk's attention, just so they have a heads-up and have the chance to make an informed decision.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

What I meant plank was the condition of the neck a sign that the guitar had been subjected to high temperatures, When I bought the guitar it was displayed on the wall at the shop. I was wondering if the dryiness or even sunlight had caused the checking. Not knowing much about laquer finishes it could be a lot of things I guess.

Continuous dry conditions will not cause checking. Sudden temperature changes and age are the usual suspects. Sunlight will also not cause checking - it just fades the finish. The dry neck was from lack of play / lack of maintenance..................not in any way related to the checking you're experiencing.

That checking is different.................and I stand by my previous point of a manufacturing "oops".

 

[Eric]

I do agree that, if properly made, a Gibson guitar can be a Very Nice Thing (TM), but they just don't seem to care hard enough these days. They've grown fat and lazy.

I'm not allowed to have an opinion, but if I was, I'd say that was very well stated and contained many good points throughout.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Wow! This thread took a serious turn to the worse!

I own five Gibsons that I'm very happy with, but other than that, I'll refrain from adding any fuel to the fire here..............................

Let's focus on ZMAN's original post.................

 

[oldguy]

Wow! This thread took a serious turn to the worse!

I own five Gibsons that I'm very happy with, but other than that, I'll refrain from adding any fuel to the fire here..............................

Let's focus on ZMAN's original post.................

AMEN and +1..........!!!!

 

[ZMAN]

Thanks guys for your support. I really don't mind people giving their experiences with various models and manufacturers. I am very meticulous in my record keeping. (Having been in the accounting field) I recently sat down with my records and found I have owned 29 Electric guitars and currently have 17. I can say that of those guitars I have never had an issue with any of my guitars, othere than a loose input jack on one of my Squier Deluxes that was and easy fix at the dealer.
I have given Gibson a week to look at the pictures and I sent them an email today. I mentioned that fact that I have been talking on several forums to guitar owners, giving them my experiences and some of the feeback I received. I hope that gets their attention.
I am glad to see that most of the people understand my dissapointment.
OH: And I have requested a replacement, with a non chambered guitar.
due to the fact that I feel the value of my guitar has been lessened through no fault of mine. I can't wait for their reply.

 

[ZMAN]

I got a reply from Gibson saying that the repair department hadn't gotten back to customer service on the pictures I sent. I played her yesterday and it feels so good and sounds even better. I am leaning more and more toward the thought that it really isn't worth the hassle for a little checking.
They also referred me to the Canadian division, Yorkville sound. Apparently they handle all the warranty claims for Canada. I have to go down to my dealer next week to pick up a Marshall footswitch, so I will check with him on his thoughts.
She sure sounds nice through my Marshall and 2/12 Avatar. I can see Goldie staying with me, even with her flaws.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I hate to say it, but chances are great that Gibson will do nothing. I have very little faith in Gibson customer service.

 

[ZMAN]

I agree plank and I have been thinking about this. I have registered a complaint with them and I have emails to back it up. If this checking develops into even the slightest crack, I will be returning it. I have been told by many Gibson Goldtop owners that is is common and shows up more in the metalic paint on the Gold top. I will monitor it closely, but for now I guess I am done with Gibson.
I just wanted to make sure people know about this. It was more of a heads up than a gripe.
Thanks guys for all your support.

 

[MAXIFUNK]

Hey Red: I understand your issues, I am in Canada and we have the same problems to a lesser extent. But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion. What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons. At no time did I slag Gibson. I have 5 Gibbys and they are amazing guitars. The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.
I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. A couple of issues of checking will not worry me. I must admit I have an address in the US, and I can get those deals. But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product. If you decide to sell it down the road you will get what you paid for it plus!
I agree with Muddy. And now I am sorry I even put this thread out there. It was not intended for this purpose.

No reason to feel sorry your thread had interest to many of us how Gibson deals with certain warranty issues. I for one learned something and thank you for letting a fellow musician know the deal.

 

[M29]

I just played a friends Epiphone LP and it had one crack like this by the bridge volume control.