250k vs 500k?

[Cranium]

Does it really make such a big difference using 250k or 500k pots, if yes what are the most noticeable differences?

 

[duhvoodooman]

Does it really make such a big difference using 250k or 500k pots, if yes what are the most noticeable differences?

Cranium, there's a good, concise explanation HERE.

250K pots bleed off more high end, so are usually used with "bright" guitars, esp. single coils like traditional Strats & Teles. 500K's bleed less high-end, so they are good for guitars that have a warmer, darker tone--typically humbucker guitars like LP's, SG's, etc. From this, you could naturally assume that using a 500K volume control in a S-S-S Strat might make the guitar sound too bright. Conversely, a 250K pot could deaden the sound of a humbucker guitar. The question is, by how much, and is it really that noticeable? Good question! I've never installed a 500K in my Strat or a 250 in my LP to actually hear the tonal impact. Maybe somebody else around here has??

 

[Tim]

Cranium,

Below please find a PM that was written by Bloozcat a few months ago. I was changing out some old scratchy pots and replaced the two caps. Both pickups are hum-buckers. Caps do make a difference, but you don’t know how much until you put the guitar back together again. I hope the below information helps you in modifying your guitar.

Voodoo is well experienced at this also.


Tim

_______________________

Re: Potentiometers and Capacitors

Tim,

The problem you're experiencing with the neck pickup is not normal. You should possibly have a slight drop off in volume, but not much if at all.

You've selected some good pickups...very vintage sounding. So, now you'll need a good wiring diagram, some good pots, capacitors, a toggle switch, and an input jack. And maybe some wiring, but you can probably re-use what you have in the guitar already.

Try this wiring diagram:
http://www.specialtyguitars.com/kits/lp_diagram.pdf

It will give you independent volume and tone controls, which is useful when blending the two pickups in the middle position.

Next you'll need some pots. I'd recommend CTS 500k 3/8" split, knurled, shaft, audio taper that you can purchase from here:

http://internetmusicsupply.com/
The number is I-EP-0086-000
The price shown is $3.22 ea., but I think they've gone up to about $3.40 ea. I'd really recommend that you buy more than the four you need because some may read below the 500k rating. I always use pots that are 500k or higher when I wire a guitar. Ordering about 3-extra usually insures that I'll get at least four that are @ or > 500k. That's just how I like to do it. You may not notice if the pot actually reads at 450k which is still within the +/- 10% that the manufacturer claims as their tolerance. The input jack and the toggle switch can both be purchased here as well. The numbers are: I-EP-0055-00 for the jack, and I-EP-0066-000 for the toggle switch.

The caps from here:
http://www.mouser.com
Part # 539-150103J400AA
Mallory 150 400v .01uf capacitor $.48 ea Neck Pickup
#539-150223J250AA
Mallory 150 250v .022uf capacitor $.50 ea Bridge Pickup
You might want to get an extra .022mf 250v cap just in case the .010uf for the neck is too bright. And maybe a .047uf 250v cap for the bridge in case the .022uf is too bright. There are other caps like the highly regarded Hovland Music Cap, but they run $12.50 ea. I think you should try the Mallory's first, and go from there. No sense in spending the extra money until you're sure you need to.

Cheers,
Bloozcat

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I fully agree with DVM on the pots.

What often gets ignored are the caps. They make a huge difference in the sound. I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.

 

[Tim]

I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.

I like the way your think Plank Spanker. Experience is the best teacher and it looks like you have a lot of experience. Now you have me thinking of a new experiment to perform on my Tele Deluxe Custom.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Cranium,

Below please find a PM that was written by Bloozcat a few months ago.

Re: Potentiometers and Capacitors

Tim,

I always use pots that are 500k or higher when I wire a guitar.
Cheers,
Bloozcat

No mention from Bloozcat of lower valued pots for single coils. BTW, where has Bloozcat gone? He was great to have around.

 

[Tim]

No mention from Bloozcat of lower valued pots for single coils. BTW, where has Bloozcat gone? He was great to have around.

It was understood between Bloozcat and myself that I was rewiring double hum-buckers.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I've tried 500K pots on single coils just for grins. The sound is pretty shrill. I'll stick to 250K pots for singles. I've heard of guys using 250K pots on some bright HB's like JB's.

I wonder just how many pickups have been declared garbage when it was just a matter of new pots and caps?

 

[duhvoodooman]

What often gets ignored are the caps. They make a huge difference in the sound. I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.

What are your favored type/brand of tone caps, Spanky? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Plank_Spanker]

What are your favored type/brand of tone caps, Spanky? Inquiring minds want to know!

It depends on what I can get my hands on. I'm a bit partial to Orange Drops, but I've used regular disc caps before. I have plain jane discs on the Strat I just modded.

 

[duhvoodooman]

It depends on what I can get my hands on. I'm a bit partial to Orange Drops, but I've used regular disc caps before. I have plain jane discs on the Strat I just modded.

Spanky, what do you find to be the tonal characteristics of a poor cap? A harsh or grainy sound? Just wondering if you can describe qualitatively the difference between good and not-so-good....

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Spanky, what do you find to be the tonal characteristics of a poor cap? A harsh or grainy sound? Just wondering if you can describe qualitatively the difference between good and not-so-good....

Hmmmmmmm.............................

That's a loaded question. When I experimented with the Strat, I had a handfull of different value caps. The ones I didn't like sounded flat and lifeless. Some were a little "boomy" sounding. Some of the differences were very subtle.

I think that it's less of a quality issue with the caps and more in selecting the right value. I have a friend that builds guitars and I usually scrounge my caps and starting values from him.

 

[tremoloman]

I find an enormous difference with my S/S/S equipped guitars using 250K and 500Ks. For singles, I like 250Ks better. for the single-coil sized HBs I use, 500K all the way.

 

[snarph]

yea if you use 250K you get a warmer tone less harsh as for 500K they are primarily good to bring out the highs of humbuckers. I like them in strats when you want that ice pick attack that you ca get from tele's . kinda like albert collins

 

[ShortBuSX]

Im really trying to learn bout 'lectronics, pots and caps...

Ive got an HSS and its got 500k pots, mini pots at that...but my HSS doesnt have a tone pot for the bucker, so then why 500k pots for tone??? And would normal sized pots act differently?

And then lastly whats an ideal cap for a guitar with this kinda pickup combo? Right now its got a green chicklet.

 

[Spudman]

You can do a jumper mod on the switch lugs and incorporate the tone for the bridge into the equation. Just a short piece of wire soldered between two lugs on the 5 way switch will do it. I can't remember which two lugs though.

If you switch the pots to 250's then it's possible the humbucker will sound too dark then. No snap or clarity.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Is there any tonal differences between the full size pots and mini pots? Other than fitting under the cover(lack of pickguard)...is there any benifit to either the full sized or mini pots?

 

[ShortBuSX]

Is this getting no response because its a dumb question?

500k=500k reguardless of the size pot? Same everything but size?

So I should probably stick with mini pots for fitment?

 

[duhvoodooman]

Is this getting no response because its a dumb question?

500k=500k reguardless of the size pot? Same everything but size?

So I should probably stick with mini pots for fitment?

Not a dumb question at all. Have patience on responses. Keep in mind that this is a small forum and there are a lot of topic areas. Not like posting to one of the big forums where your post gets read by 50 people an hour!

Re: your question, it's just a matter of size/fit, as far as I know. Plus, I would expect the bigger pots to be somewhat more durable, just as a matter of greater mechanical strength.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Have patience on responses. Keep in mind that this is a small forum and there are a lot of topic areas. Not like posting to one of the big forums where your post gets read by 50 people an hour!

My bad, I kinda realize that...but Ive been searching and reading for weeks before every really asking, so much reading it does kinda seem like a large forum at times, but I also notice the membership numbers and the amount of visitiors a day, so I know what you mean. I just dont know yalls posting habits/prefrences yet. So I bump...I mean its the Squier section, it doesnt look like it gets alot of action...or a conversationa bout pots, mini vs full sized, theres only a few that are really gonna know. I just figure if I dont bump it itll go forgotten and unnoticed, so I ask another question...give yall time to respond. *shrug*

[Re: your question, it's just a matter of size/fit, as far as I know. Plus, I would expect the bigger pots to be somewhat more durable, just as a matter of greater mechanical strength.

If its only bout durability, I recon I'll stick with the mini...cause thats almost gotta be debateable mechaniclly(smaller, strenght to weight)...and for $5 a piece I'll learn the hard way...and have a better time trying to make everything fit back into the cavity. I know soldering with it all in there was kinda hard already with the minis.

Thanks for helping me decide. Sometimes I like to do things a little differently, but its nice having information to help me make a choice.