9's vs. 10's on a Strat....

[duhvoodooman]

For a while, I've been working on learning the well-known Mark Knopfler outro solo from Tunnel of Love note-for-note. I've always ranked this high on my personal list of the greatest rock solos of all time. It's a style of playing that I don't do very often--very clean and nuanced, full of very precise bends and sophisticated (at least to me!) legato stuff. All in all, a good educational experience, I figured.

Anyway, as I've been plodding though the learning process, the most difficult element I've faced has been getting those full note bends and bend/vibrato combinations to sound sweet & true. I've been practicing it on my two Strats, both of which are standard-tuned and strung with my customary D'Addario 10's. What I've found is that between the Strat's longer scale length, the standard E-based tuning, and that string set gauge, the string tension is just a bit too high for me to achieve the precision I need. So since I had to re-order strings anyway, in addition to a 10-pack of 10's, I also picked up a 3-pack of 9's to try.

I strung my Xaviere Strat copy with a set of the 9's yesterday, and the difference is very apparent. While I'm still far from Knopfleresque in my execution, it's sounding noticeably better than it did before. I hadn't played a set of 9's on a Strat in nearly 10 years, and had really forgotten what a difference it could make.

So I guess my bottom-line is that if you find yourself wrestling with bends and vibrato issues, dropping down a string gauge size, particularly with longer scale length guitars like Strats & Teles, might make things a lot easier for you.

 

[Spudman]

Leave the 10s on but tune down a step or just half. I've got a few Strats with 10s and some with 9s and while the 9s are less of a struggle to play the 10s get the sound happening. Besides, a Strat is supposed to be a struggle to play.

 

[Jimi75]

Don't tell me you are going for 9's now. Stay with the 10's.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Glad you are enjoying them Vood, and I heartily support someone tackling some of that cool Knopfler stuff. I was just listening to a song yesterday and thinking to myself no way am I near trying to do what he does, at least the fast stuff.

Re: strings, granted, I started with 10s as a noob, as my guitar's prior owner had installed them, but to me, nines feel flacid and non-resiliant. 10's may be harder to push, but have more energy to play with when you allow them to recover from your bend. When they string tension is not there, I have nothing to work with on vibrato, etc. But I am not really trying for step and a half or two step bends though.

But I admire what you are doing, and I am glad your experiment is paying off for learning that stuff. When I am trying new stuff, or working on subtleties in my bending, or on a hard combo, I go for the Viking, which although it has 10's, is easier to bend and be subtle on, with its 333 style scale, then I go back and try to get it on the strat.

 

[Blaze]

I played GHS strings for a long time ,i think there a bit softer and easier to bend than D addario,but now i prefer d' addario sound..

You could get an hybdrid gage like the Light Top/Regular Bottom 9-46 i use on my Xaviere Xv600..Nice mix..

I use the Light Top/Heavy Bottom 10-52 set on my Tele ,i love it..

 

[duhvoodooman]

Spuds & Jim--

Relax, guys. Ya know, not all of us around here are the pros you two guys are! Some of us need a little helping hand!

Besides, I'm only doing this on one of my guitars and I have 8 of 'em. Tuning down is a PITA 'cuz it changes the chord positions. Sure, you give away a little "body" with 9's vs. 10's--but a little push with a booster pedal takes care of most of that.

 

[Robert]

I use 9s on my Tele, just so that I can easier to those big country bends. I also use 9s on my Michael Kelly, just because the guitar came with them and I haven't bothered changing strings yet.

On my Suhr, I prefer the 10s though.

 

[just strum]

Sure, you give away a little "body" with 9's vs. 10's--but a little push with a booster pedal takes care of most of that.

How much drop off (for lack of a better term) do you feel you are experiencing in tone? Besides bending made easier, have you noticed anything else?

Any adjustments to the neck?

 

[M29]

I don't know what it is yet but I have 10's on all my guitars but my Strat and I just can't change them they feel so good.

M29

 

[just strum]

Don't Strats and Teles come with 9's from the factory?

 

[duhvoodooman]

How much drop off (for lack of a better term) do you feel you are experiencing in tone? Besides bending made easier, have you noticed anything else?

Any adjustments to the neck?

It's not a big change, but the tone just has a little less body & ring to it. Like I said, I find it pretty easy to compensate for with a bit of boost. Didn't have to make any neck adjustments, at least not on this particular guitar. Haven't checked intonation yet, but I can tell you that it's very, very close.

 

[wingsdad]

Always been 10-47's on my Strat, and that's what she was strung with new - 28 years ago. However, for a few years I swapped the .017 3rd for a 16, to make 3rd string bends easier. Eventually, it was a PIA to swap strings. Besides, I've always been mainly 'a rhythmer', and IMO, 9's are too wimpy (thin tone, less latex quack and chime). All my electric 6's are strung with 10-47's.

G&L strings its ASATs ('Teles') and tradtional 'Strat' models - Legacys, S500s and Comanches - with D'add XL-110's.

 

[ShootTheGlass]

I had 9s on my RG when I bought it, but I only realised when I replaced the strings in due course with 10s, and it pulled the bridge way out!

The 9s were nice and light, but I dig into the strings so 10s suited me better.I find bending on 10s easy - maybe as when I got my first guitar, the PRS, it had 12s on!

 

[Jimi75]

Spuds & Jim--

Relax, guys. Ya know, not all of us around here are the pros you two guys are! Some of us need a little helping hand!

Besides, I'm only doing this on one of my guitars and I have 8 of 'em. Tuning down is a PITA 'cuz it changes the chord positions. Sure, you give away a little "body" with 9's vs. 10's--but a little push with a booster pedal takes care of most of that.

Hey Duh, I hope you didn'tget me wrong. I only hoped you would stay with the 10's because the tone is way better :dude:

:AOK:

 

[bigG]

I have always used D'Addario XL 9s. Every git I own is strung w them. Just a creature of habit, I guess, but they're inexpensive, last forever, and I've never found a better string for any amount of money.

I might get brave and restring my strat w 10s next time it needs to be done...we'll see. I, like most fretters who have mentioned it, don't change strings as often as "recommended". I play 'em til I know they're dead and done, then restring. Lazy? Nope! Cheap? Nope! Rational? Yep! (Frugal? You betcha!)

 

[duhvoodooman]

I really didn't mean to start a 9's vs. 10's debate. Just pointing out that if you find yourself struggling with string bends, dropping a size in string gauge might be a big help. I have no intention of changing the 10's on my other guitars. But I think I'll keep this one Strat strung with 9's for those occasions when I get a bad case of "the bends"!

 

[ZMAN]

I use D'Addario 9.5s on all of my guitars. Both the Strats and the Gibsons.
They are just about the perfect blend of both worlds. The are bendable and get give you great resonance. I do have a couple of guitars that still have 10s and 9s but the 9.5s will go on the next time I change them.
Check them out.
http://store.daddario.com/category/145824/EXL120+_Super_Light_Plus_9.5-44

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Good plan Vood. You can also find 9.5s. I don't know whether D'Addario makes them. (edit: I see Zman beat me to it.)


Practicing on a short-scale as Sun mentioned also works, but you'd have to delay Knopfler quack satisfaction.

less latex quack

Try 13s like SRV & you'll get this.

 

[duhvoodooman]

I use 9s on my Tele, just so that I can easier to those big country bends.

A-ha! See that--great minds think alike! Now I just wish I could play like you, Robert! :rockon:

I use D'Addario 9.5s on all of my guitars. Both the Strats and the Gibsons. They are just about the perfect blend of both worlds. The are bendable and get give you great resonance. I do have a couple of guitars that still have 10s and 9s but the 9.5s will go on the next time I change them.
Check them out.
http://store.daddario.com/category/145824/EXL120+_Super_Light_Plus_9.5-44

Good plan Vood. You can also find 9.5s. I don't know whether D'Addario makes them. (edit: I see Zman beat me to it.)

I'll have to give those a try! It's not so much the 0.009" top E I need--it's the 0.016" G, and those 9.5's use the same gauge.

Practicing on a short-scale as Sun mentioned also works, but you'd have to delay Knopfler quack satisfaction.

No, thanks. Wouldn't be the same without the quack! Besides, at this point, I have all the actual fingering down--it's getting the bends to sound just right that I'm working on. Especially those ones where he's alternating between the G and B strings, doing a full bend on the G while holding the pitch constant on the B.

Try 13s like SRV & you'll get this.

It's unfathomable to me that SRV could do those huge Albert King-style bends that he was famous for on strings that heavy. The man must have had the hand strength of an NFL defensive lineman. And he was just a little guy....

 

[bigG]

A-ha! See that--great minds think alike! Now I just wish I could play like you, Robert! :rockon:


I'll have to give those a try! It's not so much the 0.009" top E I need--it's the 0.016" G, and those 9.5's use the same gauge.


No, thanks. Wouldn't be the same without the quack! Besides, at this point, I have all the actual fingering down--it's getting the bends to sound just right that I'm working on. Especially those ones where he's alternating between the G and B strings, doing a full bend on the G while holding the pitch constant on the B.


It's unfathomable to me that SRV could do those huge Albert King-style bends that he was famous for on strings that heavy. The man must have had the hand strength of an NFL defensive lineman. And he was just a little guy....

And his action was set VERY high! All of these things pretty much the exact opposite of what most players do...maybe you gotta be totally different to be great!!!???

 

[marnold]

It is my understanding that Billy Gibbons plays .008s. Too bad the poor guy can't get any tone. I use .010s now because, well, that's what I like from a playability standpoint. I also find it easier to keep my Floyd floating with decent resistance that way. When I started out I tortured myself with .010s because everybody said you had to. That was stupid. If it makes playing a chore, why do it? The tone of an unplayed guitar is the same regardless of what it's strung with. (That was your moment of zen.) I read an article where Steve Vai said that he would use .010s but then would go back to .009s for a while to give his fingers a break. I figured if Vai thought it was OK, who was I to argue?

And as much as I love SRV, it'll be a cold day in Hell when I slap .013s on my guitar.

 

[duhvoodooman]

It is my understanding that Billy Gibbons plays .008s. Too bad the poor guy can't get any tone.

Good one, Rev! :rotflmao:

While there's no doubt that heavier strings will make a naturally bigger sound, there are many "unnatural" ways to compensate!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I really didn't mean to start a 9's vs. 10's debate. Just pointing out that if you find yourself struggling with string bends, dropping a size in string gauge might be a big help. I have no intention of changing the 10's on my other guitars. But I think I'll keep this one Strat strung with 9's for those occasions when I get a bad case of "the bends"!

Yeah, I get what you are saying. I was offering another alternative that I hoped would fit your theme, learning with less string tension. I have only one strat, so I am not willing to put 9's on it, but I could see having another some day and keeping it either tuned down, or with lighter strings. I would probably go tuned down, because then I can play Weezer songs, oh and SRV I suppose. :rockon:

 

[pes_laul]

I remember when I strung my strat with 9's for a change. It played ok and everything but when I put 10's back on it BOOM!!! the tone was huge.

 

[markb]

My tele hates 9s. It just has no ring to it. I'm not usually one to subscribe to the bigger strings = bigger tone concept but that guitar really comes alive with 10s.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

It is my understanding that Billy Gibbons plays .008s.

I heard that BB King had something to do with that choice. I looked & found this

"A lot of people will say that you need a heavy gauge on your guitar to get a great tone. Stevie Ray used a .013 - .056 set, which is very heavy for an electric (most guitarists use .010-.046, or .009-.042). Malcom Young of AC/DC also uses a 013 - .056 set, and he's got an amazing tone.

On the other end of the scale, Tony Iommi uses a .008-.036 gauge AND tunes down (which really makes the strings slack), and his tone is pretty heavy!

Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top used to use heavy gauge strings (.012 -.058), and really fought them. One night, BB King asked him why he used such heavy strings. Billy said it was to get a great tone. BB told him "...son, just turn your amp up. That's what I do". Words from the master."


at this site http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090324123118AAWeP6z

 

[Monkus]

:bravo: well done tot_Ou_tard :bravo:

I have 13's on my PRS and even though it has a nice dark tone, its a b^%$h to bend. I actually have her in the car to restring and intonate this afternoon. I'm going back to 9's. Trust you to hit the nail on the head !!!!

 

[Perfect Stranger]

I have one tele and one strat with 9's and on tele and one strat with 10's. I
use 10's on all but one of my humbucker guitars. That one Schecter I use
Heavy/Lights 10 - 52's. The different sizes on the singles coils definitely give
different tones to me.....course I'm half deaf anyway.