Acoustic guitars for Storm Troopers

[tot_Ou_tard]

Ted's new Tacoma has got me thinking about acoustic guitars.

I've only ever played electrics, but I am not adverse to spending some time on the light side.

One reason that I haven't gotten an acoustic guitar (the real reason is lack of funds) is that I don't really understand acoustic guitars. I know brand names & some styles (dreadnaught & ummmm OM or something), but I do not have a clue what to expect from these tonally.

Electrics I get. We have shorthand that goes a long way toward understanding what the guitar will sound like & how it will play.

strat, tele, Les Paul, 335, etc.

I'd appreciate any help I can get.

 

[Rocket]

Here is some basic reading material:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/guitar/
http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/frary/buying_an_acoustic_gtr.htm

My advice... go play a bunch of them, ignore the pricing, buy what feels & sounds right for you.

 

[just strum]

Interesting post there my friend. Maybe we should try to start off by identifying a direction. Are there any particular songs that you like where the acoustic just captures you. I'm not referring to the way it's played, but the sound that you hear that makes it appealing?

I'm not an expert by any means, I bought all of mine for their sound and bang for the buck. IMHO, the dreadnought is the most versatile and widely used guitar. Because of that, there is a greater abundance of them both new and in the used market.

So, maybe some of your preferences would get this thread to produce some info.

Edit: I have to agree with Rocket, the playing a wide selection is ALWAYS some of the best advice. I also would add to that to take a second set of ears, so you can get another opinion and have them play the guitar so you can hear what it sounds like from the other side.

Then once you decide on one, tell the store manager that you want to take it outside to see in the natural light. Once outside it's FEET DON'T FAIL ME NOW!!! and run as fast as you've ever ran before. If you go with this approach, you might want to consider training with Robert before attempting it.

 

[evenkeel]

Rocket, good reads. For us non technical types the article from Hawaii was helpful. And, your straight forward "play a bunch" advise is spot on.

and I'll second strummys "what do you like" suggestion. Good place to start.
I'll throw out a few that make the distinction for me. Always loved the Neil Young acoustic tone. Classic Martin, dread sound. And while I like Dave Mathews , his more mid rangy, airy sound always seems a bit thin to me. I mostly see him with Taylors.

I'm from the opposite side of the equation. Electrics are just strange and mysterious creatures. I own a nice MIM strat but mostly just look at it and wonder "what is this thing for"?

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Thanks for the links Rocket!

Interesting post there my friend. Maybe we should try to start off by identifying a direction. Are there any particular songs that you like where the acoustic just captures you. I'm not referring to the way it's played, but the sound that you hear that makes it appealing?

I'm not an expert by any means, I bought all of mine for their sound and bang for the buck. IMHO, the dreadnought is the most versatile and widely used guitar. Because of that, there is a greater abundance of them both new and in the used market.

So, maybe some of your preferences would get this thread to produce some info.

Well, I tend to like everything.

Right now I am working on fingerstyle blues. I get a great ringing slightly dirty sound with my Godin Radiator. I'd hope to get a more open, dynamic, woody, & enveloping sound from an acoustic.

It'd have to be a good fingerstyle guitar first & formost. With a shimmery top-end & deep rich bass.

I'd like to go a little deeper than the info in Rocket's Hawaii link on which bodystyles are best for which styles of music & playing.

...on the other hand using Strum's patented Foot Credit method I could just fill up my backyard with guitars & try them all.

and I'll second strummys "what do you like" suggestion. Good place to start.
I'll throw out a few that make the distinction for me. Always loved the Neil Young acoustic tone. Classic Martin, dread sound. And while I like Dave Mathews , his more mid rangy, airy sound always seems a bit thin to me. I mostly see him with Taylors.

I'm from the opposite side of the equation. Electrics are just strange and mysterious creatures. I own a nice MIM strat but mostly just look at it and wonder "what is this thing for"?

Well I prefer Neil Young to Dave Matthews, but that also includes the song itself, the lyrics, & the voice.

Evenkeel, try playing one of your favorite acoustic numbers on your strat set to clean with a bit of hair when you dig in.

 

[just strum]

...on the other hand using Strum's patented Foot Credit method I could just fill up my backyard with guitars & try them all.

Or do what helliott did and just start some from seed (see helliott's avatar).

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

OK, how about Jack Johnson?

Or do what helliott did and just start some from seed (see helliott's avatar).

Wow! Gear seed...you've blown my mind Strum.

:master: *GEAR SEED*:master:

Make it so number 1...

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I was out shopping & made a quick swing by a music store.

I played 3 acoustics: a Martin 000, a Takamine Santa Fe, & some kind of Alvarez.

I was amazed at how easy they were to play. The necks were not very different from my Godins.

I then made the mastake of plugging an American Standard Tele into a Fender Super Champ XD.

Sweeeeet.

 

[evenkeel]

I was out shopping & made a quick swing by a music store.
I played 3 acoustics: a Martin 000, a Takamine Santa Fe, & some kind of Alvarez.
QUOTE]

Well you can't go to far wrong with a Martin 000, particularly for fingerstyle. Wide neck and more balanced tone, versus a typical dread. You might want to also check out the even smaller 00 or parlor styles. Very popular with fingerstyle blues players.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Well you can't go to far wrong with a Martin 000, particularly for fingerstyle. Wide neck and more balanced tone, versus a typical dread. You might want to also check out the even smaller 00 or parlor styles. Very popular with fingerstyle blues players.

Would I miss the deeper bass response of a dread when playing steady-bass style?

 

[Rocket]

You might want to also check out the even smaller 00 or parlor styles. Very popular with fingerstyle blues players.

On that note... a few nights ago a mate brought along a couple of Morgan Monroe, (which I had never heard of.) Really well built and extremely low-cost. Be sure to check those out as a possible entry-to-acoustic. These are the two I played around with:

The MV-01 is a 00/24-3/4" scale, Creekside Collection, very woody timbre, pickin' on the porch style:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Acoustic-Guitar-Page_53546c04aab.html

The Blues 32 Vintage V-Neck is a 00/25-1/4" scale:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Blues-32_903bfcf888dc15d09654295.html

I really liked the MV-01.

 

[just strum]

On that note... a few nights ago a mate brought along a couple of Morgan Monroe, (which I had never heard of.) Really well built and extremely low-cost. Be sure to check those out as a possible entry-to-acoustic. These are the two I played around with:

The MV-01 is a 00/24-3/4" scale, Creekside Collection, very woody timbre, pickin' on the porch style:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Acoustic-Guitar-Page_53546c04aab.html

The Blues 32 Vintage V-Neck is a 00/25-1/4" scale:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Blues-32_903bfcf888dc15d09654295.html

I really liked the MV-01.

Extremely? I would say so, $400 with hardcase!!! Tot, if you haven't already done it, I would punch in your zip and see what dealers are near you.

I got to get my butt over to the gardening forum before I start spending.

Another thing IMHO, seeing that these are relatively unknown I would 1) follow Rockets advise and try it out at a land store and 2) Purchase the one you like from that store. I looked the MM's up and there are mixed reviews as a result of different models being reviewed, but there are definitely good ones out there.

 

[evenkeel]

On that note... a few nights ago a mate brought along a couple of Morgan Monroe, (which I had never heard of.) Really well built and extremely low-cost. Be sure to check those out as a possible entry-to-acoustic. These are the two I played around with:

The MV-01 is a 00/24-3/4" scale, Creekside Collection, very woody timbre, pickin' on the porch style:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Acoustic-Guitar-Page_53546c04aab.html

The Blues 32 Vintage V-Neck is a 00/25-1/4" scale:
http://www.morganmonroe.com/Blues-32_903bfcf888dc15d09654295.html

I really liked the MV-01.

I played a Morgan Monroe dread once. Very nice. Both Morgan Monroe and Blueridge are going after that old timey, acoustic market. Forward shifted bracing and all that. I have a friend, fingerstyle player, who has a 00 size Blueridge. Really nice guitar for not a lot of coin.

But, Tot you will lose a bit of low end, bass if you go for the 000/00 versus a dread.

 

[markb]

I played a Morgan Monroe dread once. Very nice. Both Morgan Monroe and Blueridge are going after that old timey, acoustic market. Forward shifted bracing and all that. I have a friend, fingerstyle player, who has a 00 size Blueridge. Really nice guitar for not a lot of coin.

But, Tot you will lose a bit of low end, bass if you go for the 000/00 versus a dread.

But with an OM, you'll gain a sweet, rounded top end ideal for fingerstyle. Using a thumbpick and maybe a hybrid string set will fill out the bottom end. Other budget favourites are the Epiphone EL-00, particularly for blues players, or the Johnson Carolina/Recording King (same guitars, two names). All of these guitars will have a kind of vintage, even pre-WWII sound to them. This certainly struck me when I picked up a Johnson the other day. I have that sound covered with the little Larrivee Parlour in my avatar.
For more modern tones brands like Tanglewood or Crafter or even Seagull. I've got my eye on a Crafter cutaway OM at the moment which is a ridiculously good instrument for the money.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I can only tell you the sound I like. Bottom line, it is big, throbby, low E String Rosewood back and Side Spruce top Neil Young Martin sound. Lots of pros seem to like the mahogany guitars, OM types have their strong points, but I like what I like. I just keep trying to find that sound for less dough than Neil's Martins. The Larrivee D-03R seems pretty close, and I would love to find one of those Tacomas like TJCurtin found as well. He passed on his OM Larrivee but maybe he wouldn't have if it was the Larrivee dread. Who knows?

Right now, that Larrivee seems to be the bargain guitar for what I want. I wish it were a gloss top, but I can live with satin finish for the sound and the price. The Tacoma made Guilds I have seen were nice values too. A bit depressed in price due to the Fender buyout and the poor run of California made Guilds. Tacoma was a good plant.

I have played Seagulls, and while really nice, they weren't the sound I wanted. Same with Alvarez's, Ibanez's, Washburns (sorry Washburnies, just didn't find my guitar with the ones I have seen) and Crafters. The Larrivee gives me the sound I want better than the lower priced Martin dreads I have tried. The one Tone got looks really interesting, but is not carried around here, and I would not buy a nice acoustic without playing THE VERY UNIT I was buying. But, I can't buy now anyway. Drat.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Great info. Thanks!

What does OM mean?

I was out playing Taylors & Martins n' such.

I picked up a resonator. I really liked that, but how the hell does one palm mute on such a thing?

--------------------------------------

A tale of two tones.

There was a guy shredding away like crazy with a can-of-bees distortion tone. Yawn.

A little while later I hear angels singing & go over to look. It's a guy pulling some rich sweet jazz-blues licks from some kind'a Fender amph with a tele.

Vive la difference!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

This shape
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/OM21SP.htm

Rather than the bigger, deeper dreadnought shape.

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/D28AUTH.htm

 

[markb]

OM=Orchestra Model. Martin introduced the OM in 1929 at the request of a guy called Perry Bechtel who wanted a longer scale than the OOO model. The body dimensions are identical. If we're talking about other manufacturers, anything goes really. OOO/OM can mean any smaller than dreadnought body for some people.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

This shape
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/OM21SP.htm

So OM stands for (O)Marilyn Monroe? (The O is silent).

 

[warren0728]

my fender is an om model...it's nice but does lack some bottom end....someday i'll get a really nice acoustic....but this one works for me for now...



ww

 

[sunvalleylaw]

OM=Orchestra Model. Martin introduced the OM in 1929 at the request of a guy called Perry Bechtel who wanted a longer scale than the OOO model. The body dimensions are identical. If we're talking about other manufacturers, anything goes really. OOO/OM can mean any smaller than dreadnought body for some people.

Good info. Note that both the OM and Dreadnought guitars came from Martin.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

OM=Orchestra Model. Martin introduced the OM in 1929 at the request of a guy called Perry Bechtel who wanted a longer scale than the OOO model. The body dimensions are identical. If we're talking about other manufacturers, anything goes really. OOO/OM can mean any smaller than dreadnought body for some people.

Great info! & that brings scale into the picture.

from rocket's post, it looks like there is at least the choice of

24 & 3/4 and 25 & 1/4. Any others that are common?

 

[markb]

OK, more Martin arcana. Martin's shorter scale is 24.9". Gibsons are usually 24.75" except the SJs and AJs (25.5) iirc. Most classicals are around 26" if you were considering nylon strings.

The more I think about this, and given your liking for Godin guitars, I'd strongly suggest you check out Seagulls and Simon & Patricks. They're really nice instruments for not much money (tip: the only real difference between the brands is the headstock shape and the electronics if fitted).

 

[sunvalleylaw]

This month's Premiere Guitar mag is all acoustic. Their first all acoustic issue ever. Worth checking out for more info. Re: whether your ears would miss bass response with the 000 or 00 or parlor styles, or mahogany, or like Markb's suggestion to check out Seagulls since you like Godins (same company and I agree, you should check them out), my advice is only your ears can tell. I am just a relative newb compared to some of the other folks posting on this thread, but I think acoustics are really personal to one's own ear, and I mean unit to unit.

Also, maybe narrow down your guitar choices to a few if you have a store that carries the candidates you want, and go back and play around with them a few times before deciding. That is what happened with my choice of the Larrivee D-03r. I really wanted to like the Martin D-16RGT (rosewood glosstop) better, but liked the Larrivee better in the end. Now the Martin HD-28V was a different matter. But that is only the opinion formed by me through my ears. I know of at least really one good player here who would pass on the Martins and go for a Guild.

P.S. It is easy for me to get a bit cork sniffy too. And I am not good enough to really justify doing so. Play a few and go with your gut in the end.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

OK, more Martin arcana. Martin's shorter scale is 24.9". Gibsons are usually 24.75" except the SJs and AJs (25.5) iirc. Most classicals are around 26" if you were considering nylon strings.

The more I think about this, and given your liking for Godin guitars, I'd strongly suggest you check out Seagulls and Simon & Patricks. They're really nice instruments for not much money (tip: the only real difference between the brands is the headstock shape and the electronics if fitted).

Yes, I was considering nylon strings. I played a nylon string (Martin I think) today. It had quite a nice tone.

Yes, I have alwys thought that I'd give Seagulls & S&Ps a whirl. I will have to make a trip to check them out.

I'll go pick up that Primere Guitar issue. Thanks Sun!

 

[Kazz]

Not if you do like did...get a jumbo and a dread

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I was looking around to see if a 00 might make a good fingerstyle guitar & I found this review.

http://www.gearwire.com/gibson-blues-king-l-00-lab.html

:rotflmao: :bravo: :rotflmao:

 

[Rocket]

The dude reviewing that BK00 doesn't know dip about what 00 are for, nor does he play in a style compatible with a 00 sized guitar. It's not really meant to be a chord strummer... it's meant for a specific old-timey blues pickin' style.
Anyone considering a Gibson Blues King L-00 may want to look more toward an Epiphone L-00 for same thing at $2000 less.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

The dude reviewing that BK00 doesn't know dip about what 00 are for, nor does he play in a style compatible with a 00 sized guitar. It's not really meant to be a chord strummer... it's meant for a specific old-timey blues pickin' style.

All he does is go on about how much the guitar sucks, strums two or three chords with hostility, & then continues to rant.

I'll have to go & play all the various styles to see what I'd want. I really like that specific old-timey blues style, but seeing as it would be my only guitar I may not want to be locked into that.