Advice on Song Learning Philosophy....

[Viking Power]

So as I'm bangin' away on my ol' dreadnought tryin to learn some of this geetar stuff, a nagging question keeps coming to mind..........


Do I force myself to learn the WHOLE song? Rhythm, solos, etc. ?

OR

Is it enough to learn the rhythm chords and just move on?


I'm a beginner and not in a band. Obviously, I can do whatever the hell I want, however, I am always open to advice on what is best for me in my long term progress as an axeman.

Thanks for any input!

 

[thearabianmage]

Basically, you learn songs however you feel comfortable. But as far as advice goes, the most used process of learning songs is in small chunks. First the intro, then the verse then the chorus, then put them together. It's the same for the solos. You break them down into easier-to-digest chunks of information for your brain to gobble. Then munch it like a hotdog at a baseball game.

 

[Robert]

What the 'mage said.

 

[evenkeel]

As you correctly say, whatever works. If you like just learning the riffs or just the chords have at it. However at some point you'll probably get a bit bored. Learning a complete tune has a level of satisfaction that is different from scales, riffs, chord progressions.

 

[R_of_G]

There's also something to be said for learning the whole thing (chords, intros, solos, other licks) and then putting together your own way of playing it. It's fun to know how to play some things just like they are on record, but it's also fun to develop your own reinterpretation of an existing piece. I find myself doing that more and more.

 

[Viking Power]

Thanks a lot for the great responses guys!

I was also looking at this question as "what philosophy would serve one best for learning purposes"......ie would a fretter progress more from the effort of painstakingly learning every note of a song or would the same benefit typically be seen in learning just the chord arrangement......hmmm......I guess maybe this all comes down to whether a person wants to learn to be a rhythm or lead guitarist????

 

[kiteman]

Thanks a lot for the great responses guys!

I was also looking at this question as "what philosophy would serve one best for learning purposes"......ie would a fretter progress more from the effort of painstakingly learning every note of a song or would the same benefit typically be seen in learning just the chord arrangement......hmmm......I guess maybe this all comes down to whether a person wants to learn to be a rhythm or lead guitarist????

Some say learn rhythm before lead and some say learn lead before rhythm.

I say both, they go hand in hand. I like to study songs such as chord progressions, scales under said chords, bridge, chorus, solos.

Solos can be a difficult for me as they are poured out of the artists' hearts and for me to grasp their passions.

Improvising helps too.

 

[wingsdad]

I suggest to start building your knowledge of a song with its foundation: the rhythm.

A song is composed to be played or sung & delivered rhythmically according to its Time Signature (4/4, 3/4, etc). There's usually a given tempo (Beats Per Minute) to pace that rhythm, but tempo is subject to interpretation (or ability...as in slowing it down to learn it, then get 'up to speed'.

That said, the chords 'sit' on the bass line, tied to the Time Signature. The melody (or lead) 'sits' on the chords and their rhythm that's typcially driven by the bass line.

IMHO, learning lead first is like breathing in a vacuum.

Do I force myself to learn the WHOLE song? Rhythm, solos, etc. ?

Only if you want to be capable of playing any given part, and have aspirations of someday jamming with others or playing in a band of some sort. A jam session of only lead (or rhtyhm) players is usually dominated by one player trying to outdo the others, wheter with chops or brute force (volume).

But don't 'force' yourself to do anything. Artificial expectations will frustrate you.

OR
Is it enough to learn the rhythm chords and just move on?

Move on to learning the next song?

It might be; that's up to you, and perhaps, your personaility. In a band context (as opposed to a solo virtuoso like a Segovia or a Leo Kottke, just to pick 2 names out of the air), the lead guitarist gets the spotlight and the applause; rhythm players usually don't, and bass players only if they get a solo opportunity. But the lead guitarist would be nowhere without them.

 

[Ch0jin]

I agree with wingsdad completely.

I know two guys off the top off my head who wouldn't know a scale if it hit them in the face and find lead completely intimidating. I can run rings around both of them when it comes to soloing.

However

Both these guys are -massively- more entertaining than me when handed an acoustic because they can play the rhythm and chord progressions of dozens and dozens of "classic" songs. You know, the kind non-guitarists like to sing along to round the campfire.

I still play lead to backing tracks at home 90% of the time because that gets -me- off. It does -nothing- for an audience though, and I shy away from acoustics in social situations for exactly this reason. If I could go back and change they way I started learning I'd definitely focus on getting the basic chord progressions to a bunch of popular songs down first before I got hung up on the lead/solo's. Better yet, learn to sing as well as learning your basic chord progressions and then much later worry about soloing.

 

[Viking Power]

Wow! Big thanks to all the recent posters. Wingsdad just gave me a great breakdown of "how stuff works" that I know I'll be referring back to in the future!

In general, I think that I am at a funny point in playing:

I was inspired to pick the guitar back up and really "give it a go" by a couple of guys I went camping with last summer. They were both jamming on acoustics and singing. What a great vibe and lots of cool energy!

However, my first love with guitar has always been distorted, reverbed, crazy, headbangin', electric guitar. Rhythm, solos, the whole shebang! Inspired by Randy Rhoads, Satriani, Yngwie, Hamett, Iommi, etc. etc.

WHAT TO DO! WHAT TO DO! Which direction do I take my playing?????

AAarrghhh!!! Frustrating!:thwap: :thwap:

 

[kiteman]

Whatever makes you happy.

"distorted, reverbed, crazy, headbangin', electric guitar. Rhythm, solos, the whole shebang!"

That's my bag.

 

[Ch0jin]

Wow! Big thanks to all the recent posters. Wingsdad just gave me a great breakdown of "how stuff works" that I know I'll be referring back to in the future!

In general, I think that I am at a funny point in playing:

I was inspired to pick the guitar back up and really "give it a go" by a couple of guys I went camping with last summer. They were both jamming on acoustics and singing. What a great vibe and lots of cool energy!

However, my first love with guitar has always been distorted, reverbed, crazy, headbangin', electric guitar. Rhythm, solos, the whole shebang! Inspired by Randy Rhoads, Satriani, Yngwie, Hamett, Iommi, etc. etc.

WHAT TO DO! WHAT TO DO! Which direction do I take my playing?????

AAarrghhh!!! Frustrating!:thwap: :thwap:

That sounds a little too familiar..

I tend to shy away from acoustics and campfire sing-along's because I too feel the calling of screaming solo's, and as a result I don't really know any mellow campfire acoustic songs. I keep telling myself I should learn some stuff to bring out in a campfire situation, but I still don't even own an acoustic...

Obviously my recommendations are not based on my own example to date, but I'd suggest doing what I've been telling myself to do for ages. Take some time to learn and practice some mellow acoustic stuff so the next time your in that situation you can just grab a guitar and play, rather than try and explain why you aren't joining in.

 

[Viking Power]

That sounds a little too familiar..

I tend to shy away from acoustics and campfire sing-along's because I too feel the calling of screaming solo's, and as a result I don't really know any mellow campfire acoustic songs. I keep telling myself I should learn some stuff to bring out in a campfire situation, but I still don't even own an acoustic...

Obviously my recommendations are not based on my own example to date, but I'd suggest doing what I've been telling myself to do for ages. Take some time to learn and practice some mellow acoustic stuff so the next time your in that situation you can just grab a guitar and play, rather than try and explain why you aren't joining in.

Thanks for the advice. Makes sense. Especially given my current state of owning an acoustic and *sigh* no electric.....

Hey at least if I spend the time I am "electric-less" learning some good camp-fire stuff, I won't be caught lacking when the situation comes up! I can imagine that must kind of suck for you, being a guitarist but just not having spent the time to get some mellow stuff into your playlist.

 

[Pickngrin]

I agree with what these guys have said. I wish I started out patiently learning whole songs years ago, because I would have developed much more rewarding, disciplined practice habits. I really enjoy jamming with people, but dislike hitting the point in the song where I don't know the rest...

 

[Ch0jin]

Thanks for the advice. Makes sense. Especially given my current state of owning an acoustic and *sigh* no electric.....

Hey at least if I spend the time I am "electric-less" learning some good camp-fire stuff, I won't be caught lacking when the situation comes up! I can imagine that must kind of suck for you, being a guitarist but just not having spent the time to get some mellow stuff into your playlist.

I think I've spent too much time with guitar players quite frankly I really enjoy banging out an improvised blues chord progression for them to solo over and vice versa. Or just generally swapping between rhythm and lead parts of improvised tunes. Great fun if your a guitar player, flat out boring city if you aren't though.

Looks like I need to take my own advice, but I must be careful it doesn't just morph into more GAS and a multi $K acoustic joining the fold.

Either this one or this one

 

[Viking Power]

Looks like I need to take my own advice, but I must be careful it doesn't just morph into more GAS and a multi $K acoustic joining the fold.

Either this one or this one

Both very sweet looking guitars:AOK: . I don't think you'd go wrong either way if you give in to the GAS. Funny, I've spent so much time lately drooling over electrics that I had kind of forgotten how many incredible acoustics are out there.

 

[wingsdad]

... a multi $K acoustic joining the fold....

:drool:
I wouldn't take either of those anywhere near a campfire :nono:

But acoustics may indeed be GAS-inducing. Unlike an electric, subject to a choice of solid vs. hollow vs. semi-hollow body with any one of those types accessible to a pallette of tone and volume so malleable with guitar/pickup (and mods) and amp variants, acoustics require different body shapes and sizes and body top/back (sides, debatable) woods, solid vs. laminate, wood vs. carbon/resin, to get significant tonal and texture change. So 'chasing a sound' can lead to an armada of acoustics.:crazyguy:

 

[evenkeel]

:drool:
But acoustics may indeed be GAS-inducing. Unlike an electric, subject to a choice of solid vs. hollow vs. semi-hollow body with any one of those types accessible to a pallette of tone and volume so malleable with guitar/pickup (and mods) and amp variants, acoustics require different body shapes and sizes and body top/back (sides, debatable) woods, solid vs. laminate, wood vs. carbon/resin, to get significant tonal and texture change. So 'chasing a sound' can lead to an armada of acoustics.:crazyguy:

Can't imagine anyone bonheaded enough to have an armada of acoustic guitars!! :thwap:

 

[wingsdad]

Can't imagine anyone bonheaded enough to have an armada of acoustic guitars!! :thwap:
Dean Sweet Wood 00R, Martin D2R, Martin D12-1, Guild D35NT

:whatever:
Me neither, 'keel...that would just be plain silly, now, wouldn't it?
oke:

’70 Guild D40NT
’96 Yamaha FG411CE-12
’99 Ovation Celebrity Deluxe CS257
’93 Takamine Santa Fe ESF93
’02 Takamine Santa Fe EAC38C
’04 Washburn NV100C
’06 Johnson JR-200-SB
’05 Washburn M6SW
’08 Oscar Schmidt OU250BELL

 

[kiteman]

:whatever:
Me neither, 'keel...that would just be plain silly, now, wouldn't it?
oke:

’70 Guild D40NT
’96 Yamaha FG411CE-12
’99 Ovation Celebrity Deluxe CS257
’93 Takamine Santa Fe ESF93
’02 Takamine Santa Fe EAC38C
’04 Washburn NV100C
’06 Johnson JR-200-SB
’05 Washburn M6SW
’08 Oscar Schmidt OU250BELL

Heh.