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Agile or Epiphone?

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Guitar Gal said:
Spud,
Rondo does offer a chambered LP option: http://www.rondomusic.com/al2900csbf.html

Wow, in a pawn shop, I saw a flamed cherry burst Epiphone LP Standard the other day that looked just like that. The tag said $399, but they'd take $350. It was in excellent condition, and I was severely tempted.

If an recent Epi and an Agile were basically the same, at the same price, I'd opt for the Epi, in case I ever wanted to sell or trade it later. Also, some chambered LP's are a bit neck heavy.

al3100mopcsb1a.jpg
 
Real purty guitar, iohanr!

I sit to play everything, but would still go for the Agile chambered model. It has all the 3100 appointments, minus the abalone markers, is slightly cheaper, and I think chambered LPs have a might skronkier sound, more akin to an old classic. Too bad they don't come in nitro finishes.
 
Tig said:
Wow, in a pawn shop, I saw a flamed cherry burst Epiphone LP Standard the other day that looked just like that. The tag said $399, but they'd take $350. It was in excellent condition, and I was severely tempted. ...
It may not be worth quibbling over what year or where the Epi was made, but $350-$399 w/ case is about the right range for a Music Store re-selling a trade-in, as they likely 'invested' maybe 75% of that price tag in it. OTH, a Pawn Shop most likely will have 25%, or stretching it, at most 50% invested.

Lay $250 Cash on the counter at them. (They're likely to clear at least $50 , a nice margin). If no, bump your ante once to $275, then if need be, to $300. If still No, pick up the cash, thank them for the time, turn & walk out. Avoid using the term 'ripoff' to their face, and only mutter it silently as you head for the door. They may call you back...

FWIW: I can't recall a solid hog body LP of any brand that didn't weigh less than 9 lbs. It's the price you pay for such a beast.
 
iohanr said:
I've found that most Korean-made guitars are incredible values nowadays.
Completely agree on this one.
 
As others have noted, you'll probably get better bang for buck with Agile, but better resale with Epi. I had an Epi SG (G400) and an Agile SG (Valkyrie II), and preferred the latter, mainly because it has P-90's, which is not an option on the Epi (which I sold). I've had other Epi's as well, the Flying V in my avatar and a very nice WildKat I currently still have.

Since others have noted options beyond Epi/Agile (Reverend, Hagstrom, etc.), don't forget used DeArmond M-Series setnecks. Here's an M-72 I used to have, a mahogany chambered guitar with a flat maple top:

Honey.jpg


The guitars in this series (except for the single-coil Bigsby models) have made-in-USA DeArmond Goldtone pickups which are slightly bright PAF-style humbuckers. Other guitars in the series are solid with arched maple caps.

They are generally around $300 USD used, sfaik.
 
Eric said:
Completely agree on this one.

On the flip side... I have had a mixed-bag results with China and Indonesia guitars. My daughter's SX (China) has sharp fret ends. My Squier Deluxe Strat (Indonesia) is nice, but doesn't scream "great craftsmanship" like the Agile (Korea) does. My PRS SE Custom 22 (Korea) and Michael Kelly Vex NV (Korea) are also incredibly well-made.
 
iohanr said:
On the flip side... I have had a mixed-bag results with China and Indonesia guitars. My daughter's SX (China) has sharp fret ends. My Squier Deluxe Strat (Indonesia) is nice, but doesn't scream "great craftsmanship" like the Agile (Korea) does. My PRS SE Custom 22 (Korea) and Michael Kelly Vex NV (Korea) are also incredibly well-made.

Another vote for MIK guitars here. The DeArmond higher-series (setnecks) were all made in Korea, and all the Epi's I've had were MIK as well, as are Agiles.

Haven't played an SX or one of the newer Epis that are made in China. However, it shouldn't be assumed that a particular MIC guitar will be inferior to a given MIK guitar, even if that may generally be true. It all depends on how the importer specs the guitar on the front end, and it's QC on the back end. A case in point is my Fernandes Ravelle, which is MIC. Reportedly Fernandes began production in China, moved production to Korea for a year or two, but then moved back to China because it was actually getting better results there. So it all depends on the importer and the particular factory used.

This Ravelle can easily hang not only with my MIK's but also my USA's (it helps that the stock pups are Seymour Duncan):

64206604_0561bb9017_o.jpg
 
My MIK Epi LP is just a good solid guitar. It might help that it's a Limited Edition, gold sparkletop with a Bigsby; I think they spec the Limited Editions a little better. At least the sparkletop is amazing! Actually, when I was playing in a church band for about a year, I rotated among a few different guitars, most of them made in the USA, but that one got the most compliments, both tone and appearance!
 
LPs

I have two Epi LP standards, one a plus top; both with Seymour Duncan JBs in the bridge and one has a jazz in the neck and the other a better sounding 59 in the neck.

I have a Michael Kelly Patriot Custom that is awesome with direct mount Rockfield pups, great humbuckers. Paid about 600 plus minus for it. Cherry burst.

I have an Xavier XV500 solid mahogany body and set neck with three quarter inch solid maple cap in white with the GFS crunchy PAT pickups that break up just at the right time for a great LP sound and only 208 dollars. This guitar competes with the above guitars.

I have an Ibanez ART300 alligator hide maple top mahogany body active pup LP style guitar that is light and awesome. Playing it right now, taking a break, thru my Crate Palomino V32 212 at bedroom level, can you believe that! Sounds super great even at low vol with the twin Celestion seventy eighties in it. This ART300 is about 399 now and is an awesome, awesome guitar. Mine is the swampwater amber burst real swamp alligator like finish.
The pickups are crystal clear to highly driven. Super excellent build quality and beautiful neck and fretboard.

I want to get an Agile 3100 bound black like the Voodooman wants. 400 dollars. Supposed to sound super great with stock pups. I usually play laying down or sometimes sitting. I play myself to sleep and play in the dark and it helps develop your ear and eliminate eye to fret hand fixation, which you don't want to develop as a bad habit; you want to correct this bad habit if you have it; not to be bossy, ha ha, just some quick thrown in advice, learned by chance and shareable.

That Epi Tribute has locking tuners, a case, and a lot of other great features like coil tapping, for the money it looks like a great deal if you can afford it; but you could put locking tuners on an Agile easily and do without the coil tapping or further mod the pickups, but the stock pups are probably great.

At this particular time I'm debating upgrading to an ESP LTD EC1000 Deluxe in gloss black with gold hardware and EMG 81/60 pups, or an Ibanez SZ320 gold top I can get for 300 dollars brand new old stock.

The Ibanez is a sort of super stratish LPish toned mahogany guitar that sounds great stock. Three position toggle that splits the humbuckers into a fenderish single coil tone that is known to be quite useful by those who have the guitar, unlike the traditional three position toggle, the middle position is the single coil from each pickup position. Unique idea?

Epi or Agile? I would probably go for the Agile 3100 or 3000 right now if I had to choose. Probably a way better guitar from what the reviews infer. Epiphones are really neat to have because the Epiphone name to me is like Fender or Gibson or other big time names; it has name recogintion, so owning one is kind of neat, but I would get a good one. I have a great Epi '66 gibson copy SG as well that sounds fabulous stock in cherry transparent.

Who ever heard of an Agile that you know? Hear one and you will know what some of us are talking about. They sound great. So it's sort of like a comparison of name brand presence and the higher quality of a good Agile, as far as I can tell. But for the SG I would go Epi for sure because the Agiles don't seem to look exactly right, at all, but I'm getting used to it because ESP LTD Vipers look the same way and sound great with both the Seymour Duncans and EMGs in the Deluxe Viper 1000 models - two different sounds, both super great thru a Fender Supersonic with a Celestion Vintage 30 on the Burn setting.
 
The decision has been made

Like the Kim Mitchell song, "There's decisions to be made between lager and ale". Well, except for the fact that I don't really care for lager...

I ordered the Epi Tribute Les Paul in Cherryburst with the 60s neck. The same guitar that Duff just purchased, in fact. It should arrive here late this week, along with some headphones and a pedalboard.

I'll post pics along with initial impressions sometime after she arrives and I've had a chance to noodle around a bit.
 
Just when you thought the debate was over...

I bought the Epi Tribute Les Paul, and I love it. Sounds great, plays great, and it looks nice too. But...

I felt like I didn't give the Agile a fair shake. I saw the Tribute, and made up my mind without hesitation. After all was said and done, I kept seeing posts about the Agiles, and how fantastic they are. It made me think. And then Rondo's newsletter came, and lo and behold, there's a B-stock Agile AL3000. I jumped on it. Now I can settle things in fair fashion, and the winner gets to stay with me. And the loser too, probably. Almost certainly, really. Because what's better than one beautiful mahogany single-cut? Two, of course. Or three, or... well you get the picture.

The FedEx site says it's expected Saturday the 13th. Pictures and impressions will follow shortly after.

We now return you to your regular programming.
 
Brian Krashpad said:
Haha, you crazy man!

Well, now you have 2 LPs-- always good to have a backup.

;)

Congrats.

Yes, one should always have a "plan B". Thanks, Brian.

My name is Sean, and I'm a guitar addict.
 
FrankenFretter said:
I jumped on it. Now I can settle things in fair fashion, and the winner gets to stay with me. And the loser too, probably. Almost certainly, really. Because what's better than one beautiful mahogany single-cut? Two, of course. Or three, or... well you get the picture.

You, Sir are my new hero!!! :applause
Long live FrankenFretter!
:dude
 
Agile

I am thinking seriously of getting an Agile to accompany my Tribute. I will get at least a AL3000 at least.

Right now there are some real nice Agiles on the Rondo site that are very enticing.

I have been wanting to get a black LP style with gold trim, or the double bound black one.

I have my son's Epi LP Studio I hot rodded for him but he wants to get it back and start playing again, along with his basses and bass amps. I have my own LPs, basses and guitar and bass amps.

So a black LP Agile would be right on time here in the near future. Play it stock or mod the electronics and pickups. How good are those stock AL3000 and 3100 pickups? Are they anything like a Seymour Duncan set of JB in bridge and 59 in neck? I doubt it. Probably more vintage hot tone.

Tonight I have been playing my Ebanez Destroyer, lawsuit? and having fun with it. Great hot pickups, bolt on neck though but I got it used for like 125 with hardshell case in super great shape with a solid mahogany body, natural finish and no pickguard. Quite a nice explorer. Also have my Michael Kelly Patriot Custom out and ready to play tonight as well. I usually play myself to sleep and can stay up late tonight, don't have to work tomorrow. Might also pay my Squire, stock CV 50s sunburst with solid amber pearl pickguard and new Fender five way switch. Amazing at how some of these modifications just happen out of necessity. Why put a junk five way switch back into such a nice guitar, and the pickguard is awesome. Will try to take pictures tomorrow. This stock CV sounds great and plays super great, no wonder they have earned such a warm place in the hearts of many.

Everything is getting played thru my Peavey Tweed Delta Blues or my Crate V32 Palomino 212, both of which are set up right next to my bed and laptop. My fiance likes me to play her to sleep with some mellow jams.

My next targetted purchase is an old style JamMan looper.
 
FrankenFretter said:
The FedEx site says it's expected Saturday the 13th. Pictures and impressions will follow shortly after.
Haven't heard much on the Agile since this update and a brief blurb in another thread. How is it? What are your impressions/preferences between the two of them, and how much coin did each cost you (i.e. price/performance ratio)?
 
Eric said:
Haven't heard much on the Agile since this update and a brief blurb in another thread. How is it? What are your impressions/preferences between the two of them, and how much coin did each cost you (i.e. price/performance ratio)?

Patience, grasshopper. Wait until Friday...then all will be revealed.
 
I think one has to decide just which Les Paul tone they're after in their Gibson/Epi LP or other LP copy before they decide on a particular model.

Some early Gibson LP's came through with carved mahogany tops, like the gold tops and black beauties. Others were made with 3/4" carved maple tops, both plain and figured. This is continued on in the Gibson line still today. The two styles have differing tone. The mahogany carved tops are known for a warm, darker tone while the carved 3/4" maple tops a brighter tone. Which is right for you depends upon your style, your ear, and the tone you like when listening to your favorite artists who play LP's.

I have three Agile LP type guitars with humbuckers. The first I bought was the LP-2800 DLX, which is an early model with a maple neck and a carved top mahogany body with a 3/8" flamed maple cap. It is a dark toned guitar. I ended up installing a 1-meg neck tone pot in it to lighten the dark boomy, muddy tone in the neck pickup. This was after trying about 4-sets of pickups and numerous types and values of tone caps. When I first re-wired it I put CTS pots in it that averaged 520K. Not all heavy mahogany body Agiles with thin maple tops are dark sounding, but many are.

I have an AD-3000M which is a double cut with a mahogany neck, a two piece mahogany body, and a 3/4" plain maple top with a thin veneer of flame maple. Although not quite the same as a single cut LP it is very close. The guitar is none-the-less brighter and snappier in tone than the LP-2800.

The third one is the AL-3100M I just recently purchased. It has a 1-piece mahogany neck, a two piece center joined mahogany body, and a 3/4" carved, plain maple top. The tone of this guitar is brighter, snappier, and more resonant that the original LP-2800, and even a little more so than the AD-3000M (but differences in the body mass in general may have something to do with that).

With this last purchase I wanted to get as close to the tone of a Les Paul with 3/4" maple cap as I could, but within a reasonable budget. This AL-3100M does this. I've owned Gibson LP's in the past, and this Agile mimics the tone and feel of the thick maple top models that I've had. And it is a different animal than my old Gibson gold top, which did not have the maple cap and was thus darker in tone. I also wanted a nut width of 1-11/16" or as close as possible. My Strats are all this neck width, and so are the Gibson LP's I played in the past. I was a little more ambivelent about the neck profile. I'm fine with a slightly thicker C or D profile neck, but since the Gibson LP's I'm most familiar with are 60's models with the thinner D shape, I leaned more towards that profile. So, these were "feel" issues, which taken along with my other criteria were important.

As to appearance, I wanted the guitar to be attractive looking with good fit and finish but not necessarily over the top stunning looking. A classic LP look was more what I was going for. The plain maple top in the classic cherry sunburst finish has IMHO, an understated elegance that I find appealing.

Now, having said all of this, there are still lots of variables. No two guitars have wood that has the same density or resonate the same. Weight varies also. And when you're talking about combining wood types the variables increase. But, there are generalities that can be made about each type. Generally carved mahogany top LPs are on the darker side of the LP tone spectrum. And, generally mahogany body thick carved maple top bodies are on the brighter side of LP tone. Choose the right fit for you.

There are are other options to consider as well. What neck profile are you looking for? Thicker 50's C style? Thinner 60's D style? Or perhaps a variable of either? What about the nut width? Do you want the standard Gibson 1-11/16" (or something metrically close)? Or, are you more fond of the narrower 1-5/8" width?

In my case the electronics were not a real issue as I can change anything in that regard to my liking (and usually do). But not everyone is so inclined, so things like pickup types, pots, switches, and wiring schemes need to be considered. What's ideal, what's good, and what's good enough.

So, this was my evaluation process in choosing my most recent LP type guitar purchase. We all have our own likes and dislikes across the whole spectrum. But for someone who is trying to decide exactly which LP they want, perhaps this evaluation can help them a little in prioritizing their requirements.
:)
 
Good summary -- thanks. I own an AL-3100 that is mahogany with a thin (1/16") flame maple top, and your description about body construction and tones helps. I guess I tend to lean toward a darker tone, which may explain why I found the transition to a SH kind of difficult.

The reason I asked FF about this is that I have seen this Agile/Epiphone debate rage in many forums, and am interested in FF's opinion when he A/B's them. I have not spent much time on Epi LP's, much less one that seems as nice as his Tribute LP, so I'm curious what the sniff test shows.
 
Nice post Blooz! I have not played any LP's much, the most probably being Spud's cherry burst Epi, back when I was even more of a newbie in early '07. I was not aware enough to form much of an impression then. I like the idea of an LP sometime, but after your post, realize I am not really sure what I am looking for. I was heavily leaning toward Agile when I do go there sometime.

There are two LP sounds that interest me primarily. Les Paul's (the man) cleans he got all those years out of a Goldtop. It is interesting to hear that the goldtop was a mahogany top with darker tendencies. The other tone is a punky, thumpy, chugga chug rock tone.

Given that one can darken or dirty up a clean tone, but it is difficult or impossible to brighten a dark tone, I guess I am looking for what you last purchased. In terms of color, the rootbeer one, or the goldtops were my favorites. Hmm.


EDIT: this one looks sweet, http://www.rondomusic.com/al3100te.html
 
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Like FF, I'm also now an owner of both Epiphone and Agile LP's. My Epi is a 2005 Elitist LP Standard, made in Japan just before they phased out the production of the Elitist LP's. The Elitist series instruments are truly a cut above other Epiphones, much more comparable to a Gibson (the good ones, that is!). It's a faded cherry-burst plain top, with a thick maple cap, and is definitely a brighter sounding Les Paul. The only thing I wasn't particularly impressed with were the stock pickups, which I replaced with Seymour Duncans (a '59 at the neck position, and a Custom 5 at the bridge). I bought the guitar when MF was phasing them out, and I only paid $700 for it--less than a third of what the Gibby LP Standards were going for. They had been selling at $1000 prior to that. It's a fine instrument, though not really a typical Epiphone.

I took delivery of a new Agile AL-3000 just two days ago (see it HERE), and I'm just flat amazed by the guitar. It's a black one, and solid mahogany, so it definitely has a darker tone than my Elitist LP. The workmanship is just impeccable, and the guitar plays like a dream. The controls all feel very solid, and I just love the feel of the "wide profile" neck. Obviously, with only a couple of hours of playing time thusfar, my impressions of the guitar are preliminary. But at this point, I would rate it on a par with the Elitist--very, very impressive for a sub-$400 guitar!
 
Lp

Also Maxi, the Epi Tribute to Les Paul comes in cherry sunburst plain top and is an awesome guitar.

Looking at it this morning before work standing there by the amp was kind of a haunting moment; I mean it definitely was giving off those "Les Paul" the man, vibes. It was a beautiful moment and it made me glad I got the guitar.

Evidently the company put some serious interest into designing and building these Tributes, a great guitar, with a real vibe; I mean a REAL vibe. I was kind of stunned this morning. The cherry burst tone and the antique look and the general vibe was different than my other LPs. Maybe it was the lighting, the way the morning light interacted with the finish. Really stunning and a surprise as well.

Talking about LPs with a three quarter solid maple carved tops, I got my Xavier XV500 for 209 US and it is an awesome guitar. A couple minor upgrades and it will be super awesome.

I'll compare it to my Tribute and see if it's any brighter, see which one sounds brighter.

Also, obviously, your choice of amps is going to give you a chance to make your guitar sound brighter. I'll get out my Super Champ XD and try some of those real clean Fender cleans and see what it does to a couple LPs, plus it has a real good ten inch speaker, Ragin' Cajun.

UPS truck just rolled up and I'm going to open up the Classic 30 and try it out.

I don't suppose these inexpensive guitars are anything like that Gibson you are looking at Maxi, but I just thought I'd share some thoughts.
 
FrankenFretter said:
I bought the Epi Tribute Les Paul, and I love it. Sounds great, plays great, and it looks nice too. But...

I felt like I didn't give the Agile a fair shake. I saw the Tribute, and made up my mind without hesitation. After all was said and done, I kept seeing posts about the Agiles, and how fantastic they are. It made me think. And then Rondo's newsletter came, and lo and behold, there's a B-stock Agile AL3000. I jumped on it. Now I can settle things in fair fashion, and the winner gets to stay with me. And the loser too, probably. Almost certainly, really. Because what's better than one beautiful mahogany single-cut? Two, of course. Or three, or... well you get the picture.

The FedEx site says it's expected Saturday the 13th. Pictures and impressions will follow shortly after.

We now return you to your regular programming.

Well now, this is a new development!

Keepin' me in the dark eh?

I'll be happy to check 'er out when I get there tomorrow and then I can post my impressions as well here.

I'll be bringing my LP Standard and we can do three-way test!

An all-out, knock-down, drag-out Les Paul shootout!

Who'll win?

Stay tuned.
 
And on another note

All this talk of bright and dark tones in pretty interesting to me.

Since I'm primarily a bass player, it's a one electric guitar and hence, one tone, proposition for me. I wouldn't even have the room for any more guitars!

Also, being a bass player I suppose, I lean towards the darker guitar tones and my black Epi LP Standard nails it. Matter of fact, a lot of my favorite recording artists use LPs and I gravitate towards that tone.

Another consideration is that I generally look for playability (neck shape, low action) and tone first before appearances. I don't play guitar in any bands and so I'm pretty much the only one who has to look at it and my view is usually straight down at the top!

Give me a plain-jane with good tone and easy on the fingers and I'm a happy camper.

To this end, my Epi LP standard fits fairly well although it could use lower action. I've worked on that somewhat, but it may eventually need some fret filing and polishing to get what I want.

Now I can't wait to check out Sean's (FF) two LP's!
 
The Agile...pics

Blaze said:
There s nothing like a shootout or somes good clips ...

I still don't have anything to record with. Not that anyone would want to hear anything I played anyway, but I have an excuse not to post clips. ;-)

Well, it looks like the jig is up. My brother, NW Basseroo, has finally noticed this posting. I was waiting to post some pics and a review until he was well into his long drive south, but I'll at least post some pics of the Agile real quick like:
100_1982.JPG
100_1988.JPG
100_1987.JPG

100_1981.JPG
 
Dang, that is pure guitar beauty...
Top shelf guitar porn!

You guys are making my next guitar choice happen before I was expecting.
Now, which color will I choose...
102408_apes_572_2.jpg
 
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