C#dim - Can one barre it?

[sunvalleylaw]

I have been practicing some Christmas songs to do with my instructor and some other students. I am playing rhythm, using primarily barre chords, including a lot of sevenths and minor sevenths. These I am doing in barre form, both because I like the sound, and because I seem to be quicker that way. Also, I am learning the fret board mo betta than by playing them open in first position. One open type chord that is used in a couple of these songs is C#dim, which is shown as played fretting G string at 3, A at 4, and B and D strings at 5. I am practicing getting in and out of that shape (it is used with a similar B dim chord in first position too) but am wondering if there is a barre version I can try out. Didn't find anything online with a google search. Any suggestions? :beer:

 

[Spudman]

You don't need to I think. It's only four notes.

 

[aeolian]

Here's where a tiny bit of theory will help. A diminish chord are notes 1 1/2 steps apart: for C#dim it consists of C# E & G, if you add another note it is Bb. The fingering you learn gives you C# on the A string, G on the D string, Bb on the G string, and E on the B string. A barre version can be x7565x which gives you xEGC#Ex which is another version of the C#dim (this time without the Bb). A 'normal' chord requires 3 notes or a triad, in this case you have the required 3 notes for C#dim. You have to make sure you mute the 1st and the 6th strings because those notes don't belong in this chord (actually if the 1st and the 6th strings are open you get E notes on both which do belong in the chord, but doing that with a barre would be hard).

This should give you the option to play a barre chord like you want.

 

[Ro3b]

In many-if-not-most cases you can sub a m7b5 for a full dim7 chord. There's just one note difference in that the seventh isn't diminished. One shape for C#m7b5 would be x4545x (as oppposed to C#dim7, x4535x).

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks guys. Spud, I am practicing the chord as taught to me for sure. I need to learn getting in and out of the shapes smoothly for sure, and it is only 4 notes. But we are playing this saturday, and if there is another way that flows better that I can use for that day, I am interested in it. Also, I am trying to learn some theory and such as I go with these open chords and barres. Somehow, it is helping me make some sense of it to learn different ways of doing chords. I understood well enough to begin to find straight sevenths and minor sevenths, but couldn't figure out that C#dim. Thanks Aeolian and Ro3b for the suggestions. I will play with them.


also, I better add one of those theory books to my Christmas list! Thanks again all.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Sunvalley, you might want to get

The Guitar Grimoire Chord Catalog

(one of the Guitar Grimoire series by Adam Kadmon).

It's a huge encyclopedia that descibes chord construction, shows you various voicings (fingerings) and also marks a picture of the fretboard with all the notes in a chord (labelled for example by 1 , b3, b5) so it is easy to invent your own fingering.

If what you really want is movable fingerings, so that you are not playing in first position, then there are a couple of three-string & four-string voicings that don't require a barre with a muted string.

For example:

xxx653

or

xxx989


or

xx 11 989

The main Guitaire Grimoire site

http://www.guitargrimoire.com/

The Chord Encyclopedia on $26.95 Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Grimoi...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196345247&sr=1-4

 

[aeolian]

Since we are already on the topic let me point out that if you move a diminished chord up or down the neck 3 frets you get the same chord again because every note is just 1 1/2 steps higher or lower. Take for example your x4535x, if you move it down to x1202x you get xBbEGC#x, which are the same notes that is in C#dim. So the rule for diminished chords is that any diminished chord can be moved 3 frets or multiples of 3 frets and you still have the same chord. I already gave you one example of moving your chord shape down, but you can also try my chord shape of x7565x and move it to x4232x and see whether that's easier to grab from your last chord position. With diminished chords it should be easy to find a convenient location on the neck to play the chord from your previous hand position.

Another neat thing about the diminished chord is this. The notes for G diminished is G Bb C# (and E optional). You will recognize that these are the exact same notes for C#dim. If you carry this thinking through all the notes of the C#dim chord you will see that the C#dim chord is also the Bbdim, Gdim, and Edim. See, you just learned 4 chords in one shape.

Let's also talked about augmented chords then. Augmented chords are build up of notes 2 steps apart. The Gaug or G+ would be G, B, and Eb (the next note will be G again up an octave), a fingering for it can be xx5443. Augmented chord shapes can be moved 4 frets or multiples of 4 frets to give you the same chord again. And the one chord shape xx5443 is good for G+, B+, or Eb+.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks for the extra notes on theory. When I was looking on the internet before asking here, I was interested to find that one site discussing the chord and other diminished chords suggested the Beatle's "Michelle" as a good starting place for study.

 

[oldguy]

http://jguitar.com/chord?root=C#&chord=Diminished&bass=C#&labels=none&notes=sharps&gaps=0&fingers=4

Pretty nice chord. No need to barre, but you could if you wanted, just not a full barre across all 6 strings.