Changing Speaker on Crate V5 amp

[Jeff Salinas]

Hello all,

This is a question for anyone who has already modded their Crate V5 tube amp. I've read threads on switching it out with Weber speakers. I would just like to know what exact model people are replacing their speakers with. Looking into the cabinet of this amp, it seems their is barely enough space left to upgrade without hitting the chassis. I've seen pics of the Weber speakers and it seems the magnet protrudes much further out. To me, it seems it would hit the chassis. so, I would just like to get first hand info on a good speaker model from Weber or elsewhere before I send an order out.

Thank you all in advance,

Jeff

 

[just strum]

well, it's a 10" and you can read this as it pertains to a 10" speaker.

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=10546

What sort of music do you prefer to play?

 

[Jeff Salinas]

JustStrum,

Thanks for the link. The type of music I prefer to play is blues. I already do have a Epi Valve Jr. Ver.3 I Love the tone out of this thing completely stock. It's just that darn Crate V5 I have pierces my eardrums with all that treble. I still need to know what model speaker would fit in that though.

thanks,
Jeff

 

[marnold]

Thanks for the link. The type of music I prefer to play is blues. I already do have a Epi Valve Jr. Ver.3 I Love the tone out of this thing completely stock. It's just that darn Crate V5 I have pierces my eardrums with all that treble. I still need to know what model speaker would fit in that though.

The V5 takes a 10" speaker so the Ragin Cajun would fit. From the way you describe it the tone, the Cajun would be a good replacement. Just make sure you get the 8 ohm version.

 

[Tarin]

I read somewhere that the V5 has a 4" gap between tha board and the chasis, so anything bigger than 4" will not fit.

 

[tonym]

Yep I can validate Tarin's statement. Make sure whatever you put in has an installed depth of 4" or less. The tolerance of the V5 chassis/cab to speaker is 4.09".

I installed an Eminence Delta Demon in one that I have and it's worked out great. Mellow, smooth, less harsh on the highs, and reasonable <$70.

 

[just strum]

Yep I can validate Tarin's statement. Make sure whatever you put in has an installed depth of 4" or less. The tolerance of the V5 chassis/cab to speaker is 4.09".

I installed an Eminence Delta Demon in one that I have and it's worked out great. Mellow, smooth, less harsh on the highs, and reasonable <$70.

That sounds like a good option - a good regarded speaker that is inexpensive and fits the amp.

I never measured my Rajun Cajun (boy, that just doesn't sound right), but I'm sure there are dimensions on the web.

 

[jim p]

weber ceramic 10s will fit fine

I changed the stock speaker to a Weber ceramic 10S with room to spare. MF has them for 30 bucks or you can buy from Weber there shipping is approx 13 bucks. So if you have a few things you want MF might be cheaper with the free shipping. (Weber has chokes and transformers also so if you need them that maybe the way to go)
I ordered a Weber AlNiCo 10S from MF and hope the magnet diameter is 3" or less if not it is not going to fit in the second amp I am modifying. E mailed Weber to ask about the AlNiCo but have yet to get an answer so?
Note: The stock speaker in the old Epi Valve jr was a Weber ceramic 8”
One problem with the Crate V series amps is the hardware (screws and t-nuts are crap) so take it easy when starting a screw and do not over tighten them. I think I might have to add some wood screws to hold the baffle board on the one I have.

 

[Jeff Salinas]

Thanks all for the tips.

As an update, I went ahead and ordered a Weber signature 10S. I have also decided to start with this V5 as a modding platform for my tube amps. I'm going to go ahead and bypass the op amp completely and change out alot of the tube biasing to model after the Marshall Mod. Myself, being an RF/Analog Electronics Technician, I'm able to decipher Jim P's work and mods on this thing.

Thanks alot Jim on your shared knowledge and experience with the Crate V on the other thread.

Jeff

 

[jim p]

Weber signature AlNiCo will fit the V5

I bought a Weber signature 10S AlNiCo from MF to fit in the Crate V5 that I converted to a 6V6GT output tube and the speaker fits fine without the magnet cover attached. The cover comes off the speaker easily with a little gentle prying using a flat blade screwdriver.
The Ted Weber speakers web site has a lot of intresting facts about speakers in the Q and A section you should check it out.

 

[amptweaker]

Speaker for V5

I'm doing alot of testing before i mod my V5.
This amp would match better with a 16 ohm speaker.
Look for other posts here on fretnet on the V5 for a better understanding of why I think this.

 

[schenkadere]

I just installed a Warehouse Veteran 10" in my Crate V5...it is super tight and the spec says the speaker height is 4". I think it's a better quality speaker than the cheaper Weber. The speaker does fit, but it is touching the chasis. It was a ***** getting it put back together because the the head would stick to the magnet when I tried to position it to align the screws. Does anyone know if this will present a problem?

It works fine and it is a nice speaker...more bottom and it reduces the inherent harshness of the stock amp. I also installed a set of JJ tubes from Eurotubes.

 

[goonrick]

I just installed a Warehouse Veteran 10" in my Crate V5...it is super tight and the spec says the speaker height is 4". I think it's a better quality speaker than the cheaper Weber. The speaker does fit, but it is touching the chasis. It was a ***** getting it put back together because the the head would stick to the magnet when I tried to position it to align the screws. Does anyone know if this will present a problem?

It works fine and it is a nice speaker...more bottom and it reduces the inherent harshness of the stock amp. I also installed a set of JJ tubes from Eurotubes.

I installed a Laney HH Invader in mine and the magnet touched the chassis. Beyond making it a righteous pain to put the chassis back in, it has caused no bad side effects. I think the only buzzing I'm hearing is coming from the el84 tube retainer. Those tubes have got to be the most difficult things to retain without causing buzz in a combo amp.

Any ideas on how to get that to be quiet?

 

[schenkadere]

I installed a Laney HH Invader in mine and the magnet touched the chassis. Beyond making it a righteous pain to put the chassis back in, it has caused no bad side effects. I think the only buzzing I'm hearing is coming from the el84 tube retainer. Those tubes have got to be the most difficult things to retain without causing buzz in a combo amp.

Any ideas on how to get that to be quiet?

No, sorry...not having that issue with mine...for now.

The Weber Sig 10S speaker says it's 3.8" high. That would make a difference, but I was wary abut buying such an inexpensive speaker from a name brand. The Warehouse speakers are supposed to be high quality at low cost. I haven't spent enough time with it yet, but my initial thoughts are that it was the right choice. They only offer one 10" model, but the guy told me that you won't hear more bottom from any other 10" and that' what this amp needs.

I payed 80 bucks for the amp and wasn't about pay more for a speaker. Warehouse gave me the most bang for the buck. The magnet touching does bother me though...I'm weird like that.

I put JJ tubes in too...smoothed it out a bit more.

 

[jim p]

low frequency responce from amp

If you have the V5 unmodded or with stock values around the op amp the low frequency (bass) is limited by the capacitor values in the op amp circuit. So that would not be due to the speaker you use.
If the speaker is touching the chassis you could enlarge the holes in the side of the cabnet and move the chassis towards the back some. The screws have washers that will cover the enlarged holes. Just need to keep in mind the cover on the back of the chassis. You can gain a 1/4 inch maybe?

 

[schenkadere]

If you have the V5 unmodded or with stock values around the op amp the low frequency (bass) is limited by the capacitor values in the op amp circuit. So that would not be due to the speaker you use.
If the speaker is touching the chassis you could enlarge the holes in the side of the cabnet and move the chassis towards the back some. The screws have washers that will cover the enlarged holes. Just need to keep in mind the cover on the back of the chassis. You can gain a 1/4 inch maybe?

I think it will be ok...I could probably get dental floss through it, LOL. It doesn't rattle.

That's interesting, but unfortunately a tube and speaker swap are about my modding abilities. It improved the overall sound quite a bit....tighter and less shrill. I have a little EQ that does the trick too.

 

[jim p]

Low frequency limited at 250Hz

I think it will be ok...I could probably get dental floss through it, LOL. It doesn't rattle.

That's interesting, but unfortunately a tube and speaker swap are about my modding abilities. It improved the overall sound quite a bit....tighter and less shrill. I have a little EQ that does the trick too.

What would help for the low end is to change C24 a 22nf cap in the amp to 47nf. It is a high pass filter that starts to flatten off at 250Hz the low e on the guitar is 190Hz(WRONG) This value is a hold over from the VC508 this amp is based on that had a 8 inch speaker they should have figured out to change it at Crate.

Error the low E is 82Hz so C24 should be 100nF

 

[schenkadere]

What would help for the low end is to change C24 a 22nf cap in the amp to 47nf. It is a high pass filter that starts to flatten off at 250Hz the low e on the guitar is 190Hz. This value is a hold over from the VC508 this amp is based on that had a 8 inch speaker they should have figured out to change it at Crate.

Sounds great...but Greek to me, LOL.:thwap:

Never was a Crate fan...I got it for the price...and the nice clean tone.

 

[larryx]

Speaker choice for v-5

Hello Jeff,
I am fortunate to be able to speak from presently owning some fine Weber 10 inch speakers. I did do some research before coming up with my personal choice for the V-5. After much experimentation I chose the Jensen MOD 10-70. I found most lower powered 10's in the $30-$50 price range to be very bright and (ice picky)
The 70 watt rated MOD is warmer and has just enough of the 10 inch speakers characteristic highs & mids thing going on , but it also has some (good) not boomy or farty lows. I feel it is a pretty well balanced speaker. All without having the 10's "ice pick syndrome" The MOD 10-70 sounds (almost) as good as my Weber BLUE PUP and VINTAGE speakers. I said alomost as good! The 10-70 is an awsome speaker! Especially for 50 bucks!! If I was looking to load a 1x10,2x10 or a 4x10 cab and didn't have the $$$, I would put the Jensen MOD 10-70's in them in a heartbeat! It's that good a speaker! Oh! And the best thing is it fits in the V-5 cab without alterations! Ran the V-5 cab straight into my Blue Voodoo60H 50 watt head and it killed!! I was blown away!!Sounds like a 12!!

Good Luck on your V-5!!,

larryx

 

[schenkadere]

Hello Jeff,
I am fortunate to be able to speak from presently owning some fine Weber 10 inch speakers. I did do some research before coming up with my personal choice for the V-5. After much experimentation I chose the Jensen MOD 10-70. I found most lower powered 10's in the $30-$50 price range to be very bright and (ice picky)
The 70 watt rated MOD is warmer and has just enough of the 10 inch speakers characteristic highs & mids thing going on , but it also has some (good) not boomy or farty lows. I feel it is a pretty well balanced speaker. All without having the 10's "ice pick syndrome" The MOD 10-70 sounds (almost) as good as my Weber BLUE PUP and VINTAGE speakers. I said alomost as good! The 10-70 is an awsome speaker! Especially for 50 bucks!! If I was looking to load a 1x10,2x10 or a 4x10 cab and didn't have the $$$, I would put the Jensen MOD 10-70's in them in a heartbeat! It's that good a speaker! Oh! And the best thing is it fits in the V-5 cab without alterations! Ran the V-5 cab straight into my Blue Voodoo60H 50 watt head and it killed!! I was blown away!!Sounds like a 12!!

Good Luck on your V-5!!,

larryx

I appreciate this post. I'm happy so far with my Warehouse Veteran 10".

It looks like the Weber and Jensen ceramics are the only 10" speakers with a height of under 4". The Veteran just fits...there is a hair of space left between the magnet and chassis. If I'm not fully satisfied after it's well broken in, I'll go for the Jensen Mod. Curious...you chose the 70 over the 50 for a 5W amp...do you think it could make that much of a difference?

Edit: now you've got me second guessing myself!!!:thwap:

 

[jim p]

Ice pick sound and beam blocker

A possible ice pick cure maybe to use a beam blocker either one you buy or one you make your self. If you look at my post on the Crate V5 mod postings a simple experiment is to just put a small lid in front of the center of the speaker directly in front of the cone. From the description of the beam blocker by Weber duct tape on the grill cloth may work also. Other factors maybe the grill cloth on the cabinet the speaker is installed in. Some have said they prefer the Valve Jr. sound part of that may not just be the 8”-10” speaker difference but a difference in the transparency of the grill cloth between the two at the higher frequencies (straight grill cloth vs. cloth and cane grill cloth). If you have stereo speakers with removable grill cloths listen to the speakers with and without the covers on and you can see what I mean with the change in level of high frequencies. Going to a higher wattage speakers one thing that changes is the diameter of the voice coil at the center of the cone, right where you will place the beam blocker. That bigger voice coil also dampens the speaker and with greater mass may result in lower sound output levels (it is also why it is more expensive because construction is more critical). Bottom line if your speaker sounds a bit shrill I would try a beam blocker test, it makes quite a difference in the sound at zero cost. Another thing that could work is an old thin knit t-shirt or similar thin fabric just place it in front of the speaker if it works can just put it between speaker and grill cloth on the inside of the speaker cabinet. After all if the drummer gets keep his old blanket in his bass drum for tone you should be able to use an old t-shirt for yours.

 

[timothymegg]

Hertz for Guitar Strings

What would help for the low end is to change C24 a 22nf cap in the amp to 47nf. It is a high pass filter that starts to flatten off at 250Hz the low e on the guitar is 190Hz. This value is a hold over from the VC508 this amp is based on that had a 8 inch speaker they should have figured out to change it at Crate.

Jim, I have seen you post many many times on here however, this is just bad info! The low E string on the guitar is 82.4 Hz! Dude, c'mon!?

Guitar:
82.4 Hz Low E
110 Hz A
146.8 Hz D
196 Hz G
246.9 Hz B
329.6 Hz High E

Bass:
30.9 Hz Low B (5 string bass)
41.2 Hz Low E
98 Hz G
73.4 Hz D
55 Hz A
130.8 Hz High C (6 string bass)

 

[jim p]

Thanks, sorry for the misinformation

Ya, I looked around and I have been off on the lowest frequency from a guitar. I will have to go through my posts and correct the error. I just ordered a couple of output transformers from Edcor and have to think about how this affects the low end. But it is starting to look that if the output transformer is approx two pound in weight the amp is probably 3db down at 90Hz. That would be a primary inductance of approx 9 Hennery; problem is most transformer manufactures don’t give you this specification so you have to guess.

 

[chappie86]

Hey,

This is my first post. Just thought i'd share the sucsess I have had with my V5 just by changing the rubbish stock speaker to a Jensen C10Q. It fits perfectly and the amp is heavey as it should be. The amp sounds clearer and fuller and I am really happy with the results. The amp cost me £39 new and the speaker cost £8 for this price I have great tone.

I am going to mic this up and use it for gigs and might even build myself a similar looking 2x12 cab for it from my old laney solidstate combo.

Can anybody recomend a way of getting less breakup at higher volumes I would like the amp to stay clean for longe, Maybe a change away from a 12ax7?

Thanks guys the threads on here have been really usefull for me.

 

[jim p]

On the amp look here

As far as the amp look here for ideas not sure that going to a low gain tube will buy you much do to the gain being controlled by the input op amp. http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=9379