Classic P90 tones

[marnold]

Hey kids. I've never had a guitar with P90s in it. I'd be interested in some YouTube clips that have what you consider to be classic P90 tone--particularly at the bridge. Clean or crunchy, makes no difference. This has absolutely no connection with my considering getting a P-Rails for my Fender. None whatsoever. And when I say "none," I mean that there is a certain amount. But yes, I've seen about all the P-Rails vids on there.

 

[Blaze]

Cheapo but sound ok..






Costy but sound realy ok..

 

[marnold]

Thanks for the clips. Actually those PRS SEs are in the $500-$700 US range. Obviously a lot more expensive than the Xaviers, but a heck of a lot cheaper than a bona fide PRS.

 

[markb]

Err, this'll do it! OK, not YouTube but pretty definitive

 

[Spudman]

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I liked that PRS SE Soapbar demo so much I went looking for others.

This is pretty good. Stay for the higher gain stuff Marnold.



Kid can play.

 

[Suhnton]

For an example of a more rawky sound, check out Dinosaur Jr's J Mascis.
I'm not sure what distortion pedal he's using but he used to use Big Muffs and I think changed over to the AnalogMan stuff.

I think you may have to use the link to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MdJPSqtCw

 

[Brian Krashpad]

For an example of a more rawky sound, check out Dinosaur Jr's J Mascis.
I'm not sure what distortion pedal he's using but he used to use Big Muffs and I think changed over to the AnalogMan stuff.

I think you may have to use the link to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MdJPSqtCw

Mascis is playing a Jazzmaster. While one might call them "soapbars" based on the size and shape, Jazzmaster pickups are not P-90's; totally different design and different sound as a result.

For the iconic P-90 rawk sound, check markb's link above to a Live At Leeds Who clip.

 

[ZMAN]

This guy gives the Vintage Icon Gold Top a work out. You can get a feeling for what they sound like. This guitar sold in Canada for 419. It has a set of Wikinson P90s in it. Remember there is a lot of noise with these, unless you are in the middle possition. IE hum cancelling. You can really only hear it though when not being played. IE 60 cycle hum but that is what single coils are about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4x0...8A96D1B3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=58

 

[Blaze]

This vid is not that good but gives an idea about the Agile 3000 Gold Top P90 s model..Wish we could find a better clip ..

 

[Suhnton]

Mascis is playing a Jazzmaster. While one might call them "soapbars" based on the size and shape, Jazzmaster pickups are not P-90's; totally different design and different sound as a result.

For the iconic P-90 rawk sound, check markb's link above to a Live At Leeds Who clip.

I checked the specs on the Fender site. Sorry, my bad. Marnold, you might want to take that Jazzmaster off layaway, they're not P90's

 

[marnold]

I had forgotten about Live at Leeds. Shame on me, then. Seems to me that a P90 would make a fine addition to one's arsenal.

Toying with the idea of one of those Triple-Shot rings, the P-Rail, and replacing the push-pull with a concentric pot to add a tone control. Nevertheless, without money to spend at the point it's a bit moot. Just had the privilege of sinking about $600 combined into our vehicles (routine maintenance on one, blown heater core on the other). The good news is that with an unexpected extra $700 on my tax return, I could actually pay for it without having to reload the old credit card.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

Marnold I think you'd like the raunchy sound of the P90s. You can get fairly gainy with it using some outboard stuff but with natural OD it's a lot of fun. Real P90s are noisy and those are the ones you want if you are looking for a true P90 sound. You could opt for the stacked P90s but they sound more like humbuckers but the noise is gone. If noise bothers you invest in a good used Boss NS-2...works like a charm.

 

[Brian Krashpad]

I checked the specs on the Fender site. Sorry, my bad. Marnold, you might want to take that Jazzmaster off layaway, they're not P90's

No prob. :AOK:

I think a lot of people probably think that Jazzmasters have P-90's. It probably doesn't help that some non-Fender guitar models with offset waists do have P-90's (like the SX brand SJM model sold by Rondo Music). Another pickup that looks a bit like a P-90 but isn't at all like it otherwise is the big singlecoil on some G&L ASAT's. They sorta look like "soapbars," but have totally different construction and sound.

 

[marnold]

Marnold I think you'd like the raunchy sound of the P90s. You can get fairly gainy with it using some outboard stuff but with natural OD it's a lot of fun. Real P90s are noisy and those are the ones you want if you are looking for a true P90 sound. You could opt for the stacked P90s but they sound more like humbuckers but the noise is gone. If noise bothers you invest in a good used Boss NS-2...works like a charm.

The one I'd be looking at is the aforementioned P-Rails, which is Duncan's attempt at a P90, humbucker, and rails single coil in one unit. From what I've read, the P90 mode is pretty much universally praised (as much as anything gets universally praised in the guit-fiddle community), the single coil is just OK, and the humbucker is pretty heavy in series and PAF-like in parallel. Since my guitar has a single bridge humbucker and one pot, this would add a ton of versatility. I've also heard that since the P90 coil tends to dominate the tone of the rail coil, the full humbucking mode sounds more like a noiseless P90 from Hades than anything else. The P90 mode is single coil and would have all the glorious noise one would expect.

The Triple Shot mounting ring enables me to get all four modes from the pickups, something that would have been difficult to do before. The rear cavity is kind of small and the body is carved which would make adding a switch (or two) difficult.

 

[red]

Well, to my mind the essence of P90 tone is the Les Paul Junior guitar:



IMHO the best P90 pickups available today are made by Jason Lollar and Gibson. I've had both in Les Paul Jr. type guitars, and they're really great. But different: the Gibson is better dirty - it's raunchy and nasty and bluesy and jumps at you. The Lollar is a bit hotter, and definitely higher-definition. You can go for jazzy tones with the Lollar, the Gibson pretty much stays in gritty electric blues territory, and it's great for slide when you slightly overdrive your amp. Here's a nice ToneQuest article from Jason Lollar's website that talks a bit more about his P90s and a bit about the Gibson P90s.

For me the greatest LP Jr / P90 tone is probably Keith Richards live on Midnight Rambler:



You can also check out the album version of "Tumbling Dice" for another Rolling Stones example.

Also, stay away from Gibson H90 pickups. They do approximate a P90 but not in a good way.

 

[Blaze]

Well, to my mind the essence of P90 tone is the Les Paul Junior guitar:



IMHO the best P90 pickups available today are made by Jason Lollar and Gibson. I've had both in Les Paul Jr. type guitars, and they're really great. But different: the Gibson is better dirty - it's raunchy and nasty and bluesy and jumps at you. The Lollar is a bit hotter, and definitely higher-definition. You can go for jazzy tones with the Lollar, the Gibson pretty much stays in gritty electric blues territory, and it's great for slide when you slightly overdrive your amp. Here's a nice ToneQuest article from Jason Lollar's website that talks a bit more about his P90s and a bit about the Gibson P90s.

For me the greatest LP Jr / P90 tone is probably Keith Richards live on Midnight Rambler:


You can also check out the album version of "Tumbling Dice" for another Rolling Stones example.

Also, stay away from Gibson H90 pickups. They do approximate a P90 but not in a good way.

I think , i fix it...

 

[red]

I think , i fix it...

Sorry, don't know what the problem was exactly with the YouTube embedded code. The YOUTUBE tags are not quite very forgiving...
It seems to be fixed now.

Also, forgot to mention - if you're interested in the Les Paul Junior tone, you might also want to check out the album "Climbing!" by Mountain. Leslie West is playing a Junior on some classic rock there.



And if you're into Pearl Jam, Mike McCready is using a Les Paul Junior almost exclusively for lead work on the "Immagine in Cornice" live DVD:

 

[sumitomo]

Oh man that's a teaser with Leslie West,I need more that 25 seconds.Sumi

 

[markb]

Marnold, I've just reread your intention to put a P90 in a Fender. Have you notice what most of the above have in common? They're nearly all mahogany guitars. P90 plus lightweight mahogany guitar = killer tone.

 

[red]

Oh man that's a teaser with Leslie West,I need more that 25 seconds.Sumi

OK then, get Mountain's "Climbing!" album, that album is all about Leslie West's Junior .

 

[red]

Have you notice what most of the above have in common? They're nearly all mahogany guitars. P90 plus lightweight mahogany guitar = killer tone.

Indeed, I forgot to mention that almost all of the great P90 tone I can remember involves mahogany .

Collings also makes a great P90 guitar, the 290 model. It's a far better guitar that a corresponding Gibson as far as craftsmanship and playability go, and it comes with Lollar pickups. But it is pretty pricey.

 

[Blaze]

I m thinkin about getting a P90 style guitar but i heard so much comments sayin that these PUs are extremely noisy .. Hum ???

 

[Brian Krashpad]

I m thinkin about getting a P90 style guitar but i heard so much comments sayin that these PUs are extremely noisy .. Hum ???

They are single coils, so they hum. But then so do Strats and Teles. It just depends how much hum bugs you. You can get a 2 P-90 guitar with one pickup reverse-wound/reverse polarity, and with such a guitar, playing in the middle position (both pickups on) will cancel the hum, just like the 2 and 4 positions on most Strats.

To me, it's not rock and roll without at least a little hum anyhow.

 

[Blaze]

To me, it's not rock and roll without at least a little hum anyhow.

Ya right !

 

[ZMAN]

Sorry, don't know what the problem was exactly with the YouTube embedded code. The YOUTUBE tags are not quite very forgiving...
It seems to be fixed now.

Also, forgot to mention - if you're interested in the Les Paul Junior tone, you might also want to check out the album "Climbing!" by Mountain. Leslie West is playing a Junior on some classic rock there.



And if you're into Pearl Jam, Mike McCready is using a Les Paul Junior almost exclusively for lead work on the "Immagine in Cornice" live DVD:

That isn't Leslie West, he doesn't have white gloves on!

 

[marnold]

"State of Love and Trust" is one of the few Pearl Jam songs I can listen to repeatedly. "Mississippi Queen" is a great track as well. P90s seem to me to sound more like raggedy humbuckers than single coils, at least with a goodly amount of gain. Note: I consider that to be a Good Thing.

As far as wood goes, my Fender is basswood which is admittedly not mahogany but it is light and somewhat warmer than the typical alder, as I'm told. That's also why I'd want to put a tone control on it. I'd want to keep 500K pots, but am concerned it might get a bit too bright. Of course, I can roll back the volume a bit to accomplish the same thing, but it might take some of the raunch with it.

In general, I can't stand single coil hum. I really like my Area 61s in my Floyd for that purpose. Understand also that this is from a guy who leans toward the higher end of the gain spectrum where 60 cycle hum is going to sound like a hive of bees in your shorts. However, I'd be willing to endure some hum for the sake of flexibility. There's already some shielding in there.

 

[wingsdad]

... I'd want to keep 500K pots, but am concerned it might get a bit too bright. ...

Yeah, like oke: an ice-pick in your eye, Rev. While 250K's are the typical way to go with single coils to 'soften' them, and 500K's for 'buckers, as you've described P-90's so well ('raggedy humbuckers'), you could try the middle ground between black & white: 300K's.

My P-90 Casino has 250's, and with a laminated maple hollow body, the treble can get pretty glassy.

As for hum? My take on 'classic P-90 tone' is not overdriven, but clean and jangly, so hum caused by over-amplifying the low-gain output of a single coil pup has been rarely annoying to me. Which is why I offer no examples here because that would be irrelevant to your style preferences.

I do hate it, though, when my single coils pick up AM radio broadcasts :whatever: singles...

 

[marnold]

Yeah, like oke: an ice-pick in your eye, Rev. While 250K's are the typical way to go with single coils to 'soften' them, and 500K's for 'buckers, as you've described P-90's so well ('raggedy humbuckers'), you could try the middle ground between black & white: 300K's.

My P-90 Casino has 250's, and with a laminated maple hollow body, the treble can get pretty glassy.

As for hum? My take on 'classic P-90 tone' is not overdriven, but clean and jangly, so hum caused by over-amplifying the low-gain output of a single coil pup has been rarely annoying to me. Which is why I offer no examples here because that would be irrelevant to your style preferences.

Hey, post away. Remember, I also posted a clip me playing "Walk, Don't Run" so I'm not against clean by any means. I don't always spell my name with umlauts

Your comments about pots are what led me to the idea of adding a tone control. My concern with going with less than 500K pots is that I've heard the series humbucker sound described as somewhat dark, so it's a balancing act.

 

[just strum]

Okay, I'm taking advantage of the topic to post this (again)