Ditching the P90's

[just strum]

I have people telling me to get GFS pups, are they really any good?

 

[wingsdad]

I have people telling me to get GFS pups, are they really any good?

I have no idea, but lots of folks here seem thrilled by them.

IMHO, the right Seymour Duncans or DiMarzios will possibly add some value to your guitar because of their quality and long-standing reputation for same. Many 'off-brands' imitate them and aren't as 'proven'.

 

[Duff]

GFS p90

No affilliation. Check out these nice GFS P90's noise cancelling 8.8 and 8.0 K calibrated reverse polarity.

http://store.guitarfetish.com/gfsalvisoblp.html

Supposed to be real good pickups, not dogears. I think you said yours were screw thru body types requiring the pickup packaging foam, a couple layers, underneath the P90 to exert upward force for raising the pups. That spring idea also sounded great! I have had the same problem trying to raise P90 pups.

I love that P90 sound and putting hbuckers in that idol sounds like a task, not impossible but a task of definite depth requiring expertise and ability in a variety of areas.

I'd try replacement pups and if you don't like them maybe I'll buy them from you. Whatever you decide.

As far as SD goes, check these stacked P90s that would be awesome I would think:

Seymour Duncan page description below:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/specialized/ look down the page a little. Screw thru pickup type style.

musciansfriend.com has these, no affilliation, stacked true humbucker P90's in the p90 size direct drop in'. They would be probably outstanding by all means and you would get your humbuckers too:

Musciansfriend link below:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend....TKP1-Stacked-P90-SingleCoil-Pickup?sku=300052

They cost more but you are going to get something that is outstanding and like I said if you don't like them I will probably buy them from you fast. They sound nice to me. I might get a set of these for my SX all mahogany and put in some better pots and a capacitor recommended by some of these experts as well. And even a better switch.

Hope this helps Strum. You could put these in with just a few minor to moderate iron burns. But probably won't get away unscathed, I rarely do and I been doing it for too many years to remember; when I started in my Dad's shop as a kid I was too young to remember. Playing with solder and a hot iron was like MEGA fun for a kid. But mess with fire and your're gonna get burned. You can do it!

Duffy

 

[just strum]

since this is going to be my first time doing this mod, I was wondering.

Do pots and pups come with diagrams or is there some sort of universal wiring diagram?

 

[marnold]

Do pots and pups come with diagrams or is there some sort of universal wiring diagram?

Volume and tone pots are all wired basically the same way. The fun comes in that there is no standard for the color codes for pickup leads. For my money, Seymour Duncan has the most convenient list of wiring diagrams.

 

[just strum]

Volume and tone pots are all wired basically the same way. The fun comes in that there is no standard for the color codes for pickup leads. For my money, Seymour Duncan has the most convenient list of wiring diagrams.

We should get a little betting action going here to see who can guess the number of burns I get while doing my first mod.

Maybe it would be smart to practice on the old set before diving in to the new components.

 

[Kazz]

We should get a little betting action going here to see who can guess the number of burns I get while doing my first mod.

Maybe it would be smart to practice on the old set before diving in to the new components.

I'm betting on a trip to Minor Emergency Care

 

[Duff]

Strum

What pickups and pots did you get?

It is possible that the pots that are in the guitar are okay to use.

Why would you want to replace the pots?

Replacing the pots is going to make a simple job a much more complicated job.

If you use the existing pots you can just desolder the old wires one at a time and make a sketch so you know where to connect the new wires. If you do this one pickup at a time it will be really hard to wire it wrong.

Working from a drawing could be complicated because there are different ways of wiring pickups. I try to just substitute the new wires in the places of the old wires, using the stock pots.

When I had pots put in I took the guitar apart and left the strings on and made it so the tech at the guitar shop could get right to swapping the pots without the extra labor cost of doing easy things like taking screws out to access the pot job. Then I put it back together after he wired in the new pots.

I "had" to replace one the pots because it did not work at all, and, the entire wiring of the switch and pots was not done correctly. In ten minutes the tech had it finished and done right. Cost me 14 dollars, including the pot. Er . . . . I mean potentiometer.

Duffy
Peace

 

[just strum]

What pickups and pots did you get?

It is possible that the pots that are in the guitar are okay to use.

Why would you want to replace the pots?

Replacing the pots is going to make a simple job a much more complicated job.


Duffy
Peace

Pups

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP154.html
http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP162.html

As for the pots, I should know later today.

Why am I replacing them? Because the ones that are in the guitar do not seem responsive and as long as I am working on it, I want to do it complete. If I choose not to switch them, then I will use them on the Dot when I take a stab at throwing new pups into that one.

 

[bigoldron]

Pups

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP154.html
http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP162.html

As for the pots, I should know later today.

Why am I replacing them? Because the ones that are in the guitar do not seem responsive and as long as I am working on it, I want to do it complete. If I choose not to switch them, then I will use them on the Dot when I take a stab at throwing new pups into that one.

Dang, man, those look COOL! If I had known about them (and could have afforded them), I might not have gotten rid of the Washburn. I guess the pots were just defective from the start. I cheaped out and bought them off Ebay instead of going with a regular vendor. We're all waiting to hear how it turns out!

 

[just strum]

Dang, man, those look COOL! If I had known about them (and could have afforded them), I might not have gotten rid of the Washburn. I guess the pots were just defective from the start. I cheaped out and bought them off Ebay instead of going with a regular vendor. We're all waiting to hear how it turns out!

Ronnie,

I'm not sure if the pots that are in there now are faulty or if it's just me. If I knew something about electronics, I may be able to describe what the issue is, but since I don't know squat about them, I will just have to tinker.

 

[Tibernius]

Pups

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP154.html
http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP162.html

As for the pots, I should know later today.

You can get them for $55 each? They're £73 each over here.

 

[just strum]

You can get them for $55 each? They're £73 each over here.

A couple of the US websites sell them for $70+, but I just kept shopping around and stumbled on to Steve's Music Center.

 

[Duff]

Strum

It is possible the pots are not responsive because of the pickups not being sensitive enough. With the new pickups the pots could be great. I have noticed this before.

If you can handle the pots, go for it, then you will know you have what you want.

On the pickups I notice the screw holes are toward the outside of the pickup. If your current holes are not in the same place, you might want to mark the new holes down in the cavity where the screws will go and drill some pilot holes for the screws in the very hard wood. Otherwise you might do like I once did: break the screw trying to screw it in an undrilled hole because the wood is so strong, twisted it right in two. Drill a pilot hole about half the diameter of the screw, or so. You want to help the screw go in but don't make it too big.

Also, order screws for the pickups if they don't come with any and ordering at least one extra might be a good idea in case you twist one off.

Putting in P90's is harder than putting in humbuckers because of the design. The humbuckers have the spring cradle design type thing that let you adjust the pickup up and down easily. P90's don't have that, just the two screws and you have to put some springs under them and some foam from the box the pickups sit in; or something similar. You have to have upward force on the bottom of the P90 and some foam to push up on the bottom evenly to keep the pup level no matter where you adjust it.

Try to get the screws into the body, thru the P90 as "straight" up and down as possible to avoid the pup being at a kilter or angle other than flat to the surface of the guitar and string bottoms. Foam under them will help keep the pups flat but it is important to drill the pilot holes straight up and down and so the screws will go in nice and straight. Not at an angle.

The pups usually come with very thin stainless steel screws, phillips head, strong but not as strong as some of the guitar woods; so this is why you should drill a pilot hole, perfectly as possible perpendicular to the top of where you want the pickups to be sitting completly flat.

This aspect of adapting a new design pup, if thats what you have, with differently placed screw holes, is definitely an art. It is VERY easy to get those new screw holes going in at a slight angle which shows up real good once you screw the screw all the way in and notice the pup is at an angle or the screw head is not flush with the top of the pup but is slanted.

Maybe yours aren't the type that screw directly into the wood at the bottom of the pup cavity. Mine screw in this way and you have to be really careful. The screws are difficult to find locally if you break one off, such as you can't get them at Lowes. Plus, if you twist one off how you going to get it out? It's going to be in the way. Try not to twist any off

Drilling new pup screw holes because the new pup holes don't line up with the old ones will be harder to do than to just utilize the existing holes and screw a pup in that has the same screw hole spacing. Then the screw hole will be square the way you want it; so the pup will be flush and flat when you are done, not tilted. This is easier said than done.

A pro tech will do it right the first time and maybe save you some time and a lot of effort, maybe some money too.

Not to discourage you, I like to encourage people to mod their stuff if they are so inclined, but this task you are taking on looks fairly complicated for a first task, IF the pup mounting screw holes do not match up with the old ones.

You are going to have enough fun with the pots and the soldering and figuring out the wiring diagrams and getting good grounds.

That pickup mounting design with the screws into the wood with the P90's is definitely something that requires some exactness and is somewhat of an art.

If I get some SD's for my SX LP special copy, I am almost positive I'll have a tech put them in using springs and foam between the screws. And I'll let him get the screws in straight. I don't want to have my P90's sitting at an angle.

Just some ideas before you get in too deep. It might cost you more to correct your mistakes if you make any.

Duffy

 

[Duff]

Strum

Leaving in the old pots and putting in the new P90's would be a good start and give you some soldering experience. You can always switch out the pots if necessary later, but I suspect they will come to new exciting life with some quality pups.

I played my two P ninety guitars last night and the one with the duncan designed noise cancelling in the middle switch position pups sounded best.

The duncan designed, won't sound, probably, as good as real Seymour Duncans, but they DO NOT sound muddy in my new Squire Custom II telecaster at all. In all switch positions they sound clear and awesome, bright to growl, clear, note separation in chords, smooth, great sounding pups. Very rewarding to play that guitar thru a nice amp.

Note:

Also Strum, I stopped by Walden Books today, no affilliation and picked up a great guitar book for 7.99 in the bargain section, probably have them everywhere. It's called "Guitar: a complete guide for the player", by Dave Hunter, et. al., by Quantum Books.

It has beautiful pictures of great guitars, instructional sections, but ESPECIALLY useful for you, an outstanding, simple "maintenance" section that shows exactly how to wire up pups, etc. It has simple to read wiring diagrams with lots of different variations of ways to wire sss, ssh, hss, and humbucker set ups, along with P nineties and other less noticed pups. It has tips on soldering, simple instructions, lots of pictures, and could be a really nice book for you; while at the same time being of the quality that it makes a nice coffee table book.

This is a way better book than I thought it was going to be. It covers, very tastefully, lots of territory and is well made.

Walden Books could probably order it in from another store if they don't have it and have it for you in a couple days. Eight dollars. Very up to date. Very low hoakieness factor, very high usefullness factor, and a high coefficient of cool.

Hope this helps,

Duffy

 

[just strum]

Well, I have my pick ups

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP154.html

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP162.html

and my soldering station

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103059963

Now it is getting close to operation time.

 

[street music]

DANGER! DANGER!

I think Strum could be having too much fun.

 

[bigoldron]

Well, I have my pick ups

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP154.html

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/DimarzioDP162.html

and my soldering station

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103059963

Now it is getting close to operation time.

Good luck, Strum! My pickups and tremolo kit came in. Waiting on shielding tape, which should come tomorrow. After I get through, you won't be able to recognize the Squier. Let us know how your project turns out! Merry Christmas!

 

[just strum]

DANGER! DANGER!

I think Strum could be having too much fun.

I may have to borrow some of Kramer's Chinese Balm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzowSs9mNOM&feature=PlayList&p=BB54D3B972E34DD5&playnext=1&index=13

 

[M29]

Whats that smell.....

 

[just strum]

Fit check with humbuckers

Previous P90's

 

[bigoldron]

Looks WAY COOL!!! Makes her look really tough!!! I bet she'll sound mighty fine when your finished!!! :AOK: :rockon:

 

[just strum]

Okay, it's time for dumb question night (I know, I tend to have dumb questions at other times too)

Anyway, here are some starters:

1) when I start to do the soldering to the pups, I am assuming I do all of that outside of the guitar cavity and then carefully install the pots into the guitar after connecting the pup wires to the pots. I tried to locate a video of someone working on an LP, but all I can find are Strat mods.

2) a continuation to 1 - does anyone know of videos that would assist in working on the Washburn?

3) Does anyone know if home depot or lowes carries the solder I will need or do I have to go to some place like radio shack?

 

[markb]

To avoid overlong cable runs you usually have to do your soldering over the guitar, unless you're wiring up a strat pickguard that is. Use masking tape and newspaper to protect the finish. You'd be amazed how obvious a tiny solder burn looks on the finish of a guitar. Please do NOT ask me how I know this


Well, OK, it involved a MIM strat in red metallic and a Duncan JB jr, but I really don't want to talk about it :thwap:

 

[just strum]

To avoid overlong cable runs you usually have to do your soldering over the guitar, unless you're wiring up a strat pickguard that is. Use masking tape and newspaper to protect the finish. You'd be amazed how obvious a tiny solder burn looks on the finish of a guitar. Please do NOT ask me how I know this

I was thinking of taping some thin cardboard (the kind you find on the back of a note pad). I figure I would do the soldering right outside of the cavity and then install everything.

 

[Dauntless]

I usually take a piece of cardboard, cut it to a usable size, punch holes for the pots and solder the assembly outside the guitar.
If it's a Les Paul style, I route and solder the pickups, ground and lead to the switch, with enough length to reach my assembly of pots, so that I spend as little time as possible, soldering over the guitar.
Thought I'd toss that out to you.

 

[bigoldron]

I usually take a piece of cardboard, cut it to a usable size, punch holes for the pots and solder the assembly outside the guitar.
If it's a Les Paul style, I route and solder the pickups, ground and lead to the switch, with enough length to reach my assembly of pots, so that I spend as little time as possible, soldering over the guitar.
Thought I'd toss that out to you.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I've recently had my first experience working on a Strat and it's handy being able to work on the electronics on the pickguard and then solder it to the jack and ground! This'll give you basically the same thing. Good luck Mark!

 

[mrmudcat]

Pots are coming monday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but some know im slow:rotflmao:

 

[Kazz]

Mark

Those black pups look great in that Washburn. Excellent choice.

 

[just strum]

Okay, I have the pots, I have the pups, and I have my soldering station. This weekend I will probably start the project, but another question before I start.

I may need some wire, what wire do I buy? I would like to get it from a local store, so I don't have to wait for another package to arrive.

Oh, and I bought one of these.

One can never be too safe.