Does Epiphone count?

[ShortBuSX]

My buddy just bought a Vintage Faded SG 400 from MF, first ones neck was broke...2 weeks later(even I lost sleep!) he got another...thing is BADNESS!!! But hes hardheaded and the the setup is terrible. He brought it to "jam night" and I played a couple tunes on it...as I was playing "the Rover" I could hear the intonation...action high, trying to accomodate the truss rod adjustment, rear humbucker raised and slanted. I offered my services...even offered a new set of Elixcers(hes never tried em) to try and get my hands on to rectify the (set up)situation...but this guy knows more about nothing, and nothing about something...hes helpless and for no good reason!

Well since(I talked him into financing his) Ive had my eye on these....I even found a great SG forum...Ive been drooling seriously! Did you know ALL of these are NITRO'd?!? Ive gotta have one! Ive even considered that this is a 5 week pay period!! BUT today, to my surprise, I found Ive paid off a credit card...and am seriously considering financing one of these...but I dont want the "vintage" but the BLACK SG 400 Epi...even the Goth model has my attention.

Im really trying to vent some GAS, but I think Im gonna bite the bullet...any opinions, ideas or suggestions. Im kinda findin it strange that the SG 400 is $100 more than the "vintage"...but I gotta have that BLACK!!! And no matter the model...Im thinkin Toni Iommi's, so the pups and pots arent an issue and easily remidied in the not so distant future.

PS I have no intentions to mail order this!

 

[ShortBuSX]

Now Im itchin for en Epiphone Les Paul...maybe a Standard or Plain top...I dunno...but Im feelin a new Epiphone in the near future.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Now Im itchin for en Epiphone Les Paul...maybe a Standard or Plain top...I dunno...but Im feelin a new Epiphone in the near future.

Which leads me right back into the Epi vs. Agile vs. Samick LP deal. Gotta save up for a nice one and then decide.

 

[duhvoodooman]

Hey, Short, methinks you need one of THESE.... R

 

[ShortBuSX]

Hey, Short, methinks you need one of THESE.... R

Yeah, I NEED one of those...but I was thinking more along the lines of THIS

MY buddy's set up was so bad that I couldnt play it long, he didnt have a strap so I had to play it seated...but after reading a couple reviews, I get the impression that its neck heavy, so Im kinda second guessing that choice...kinda makes the Les Paul even more desireable.

 

[Spudman]

Play an SG with a strap on standing up before you buy one. They can be neck heavy which makes playing them a bummer sometimes. Just some advice.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Play an SG with a strap on standing up before you buy one. They can be neck heavy which makes playing them a bummer sometimes. Just some advice.

Nothing worse than a neck heavy guitar, no matter how cool it is.

 

[ShortBuSX]

So does anybody here have an SG?

The Epiphone LPs that Im interested in are the Standard and the Standard plain top...any opinions would be appreciated.

 

[duhvoodooman]

No SG, but I do have an Epi Elitist LP Standard that is a sweet guitar. Plays as well as any Gibson LP I've tried. The Elitist series guitars are made by topnotch Japanese luthiers, and rival Gibson USA quality in every respect but the electronics, from all I've read. I upgraded the pickups with Seymour Duncans and did some fancy rewiring with push/pull pots, and it does everything I want it to now. I paid $700 for mine on closeout from MF about a year and a half ago.

 

[Spudman]

So does anybody here have an SG?

The Epiphone LPs that Im interested in are the Standard and the Standard plain top...any opinions would be appreciated.

You can't go wrong there. The Standard is the way to go. The plain top is pretty blah in my opinion. Too bad you didn't get in on the Music123 quilt top deal last month. I'm loving mine and play it all the time.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Got any pics posted of it?

 

[ShortBuSX]

So I went to Sam Ash last night...to my dissapointment they dont carry epiphone, but I was able to try out a couple of used Standard LPs...Im gonna bite! By now my delima is where do I get it from? There is no place local for me to get it. I dont want a broken one sent via UPS from MusiciansFriend, I dont trust that combo after seeing my buddys busted SG and the hellish(3 week) wait to get the situation rectified...but I tend to blame UPS moreso cause they recently lost a package of mine from MF in the same week.
So whos a good mail order outlet...or do you believe these to be isolated incidents?

 

[duhvoodooman]

Here's a B-stock Epi LP Std. with the flame maple "Plus Top" from Music123 for $400 and free shipping:

http://www.music123.com/Epiphone-Le...ectric-Guitar-B-Stock-(B-Stock)-i102841.music

These B-stock guitars generally have very minor flaws and are an excellent value. Music123 ships by FedEx and from what I've seen, the vast majority of those Fullerton and Aria close-out guitars they've been shipping have been arriving in good shape....

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Every transaction I've had with Musician's Friend has been positive. I ordered my SG and both Les Pauls from them - no hassles, no broken / bad instruments, no lost orders. The only issue I have with MF is backordering - sometimes it takes a while to get what you order if it's not already in stock.

Considering my experience, and the flood of orders MF takes every day, I think your buddy's experience was the exception.

One caveat - every guitar I've ordered from MF shipped with a hard shell case. That in itself is major shipping protection.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Considering my experience, and the flood of orders MF takes every day, I think your buddy's experience was the exception.

You know I tend to agree with you to some degree...I really feel its UPS thats the problem, and more specificlly its likely just the Jacksonville facility, I KNOW thats where mine got lost...and I suspect his was damaged there too.

One caveat - every guitar I've ordered from MF shipped with a hard shell case. That in itself is major shipping protection.

I think you might be onto something...that I wouldnt have even considered, as I would have waited to get a case for it. Thanks!

 

[ShortBuSX]

Here's a B-stock Epi LP Std. with the flame maple "Plus Top" from Music123 for $400 and free shipping:

Whats a "plus top"?

These B-stock guitars generally have very minor flaws and are an excellent value. Music123 ships by FedEx and from what I've seen, the vast majority of those Fullerton and Aria close-out guitars they've been shipping have been arriving in good shape....

If I could see the damage before purchasing, Id likely do it.

And I like the idea of knowing that they are consistantly arriving in good shape...as opposed to 2 botched orders in a matter of days.

 

[duhvoodooman]

Whats a "plus top"?

Just denotes an upgrade over the standard maple top. Flame maple is prettier.

If I could see the damage before purchasing, Id likely do it.

And I like the idea of knowing that they are consistantly arriving in good shape...as opposed to 2 botched orders in a matter of days.

B stock is usually not damaged, but rather minor imperfections as manufactured. A lot of people who buy them end up saying "I can't even find the flaw." I've read that comment again & again....

 

[ShortBuSX]

So its flame maple? That I understand...I think

 

[ShortBuSX]

Im currently looking for a buyers guide for LPs...Im browsing the forums, and interestingly enough I found this.

First off I just bought a Les Paul Standard in Vintage Sunburst. I love the thing but you see, I ordered it off the internet...

I usually avoid this but Musicians Friend has treated me good in the past so I opted to go with them again. I have had terrible luck with this one though. First time it was the wrong finish, second time one of the pickups was sunken into the guitar. Third time, one of the tone knobs did not work at all. I just got my fourth replacement yesterday and it seems fine so far.

But then I found this(sorry no link)

I purchased my last ANYTHING from Music123! I ordered a '57 Les Paul Junior reissue from them on May 2nd and it's still sitting in their warehouse. When I contacted their customer service they are very unresponsive at best (rude at worst). The market is too competitive for them to act like this. The salesman that I worked with originally said that they have been purchased by Guitar Center.

So I dunno, I guess every place has thier horror stories...but I did just get a healthy line of credit form 123...so its all over but the decidin! B stock Plus Top or Standard in black???

 

[R_of_G]

Play ANY guitar you are considering

Today's rambling post from R_of_G, the story of the diamond in the rough, or always play before you pay.

I can think of at least two circumstances under which the "lesser" brand like epiphone or squier have yielded the better guitar for the player. the first story is my friend curtis' [the single greatest funk bass-player i have ever met, and one hell of a guitar player to boot]. fyi - i am 100% self-taught, but it was curtis who taught me how to teach myself. anyway, he has a mexican strat knock-off [not a mexican fender or squier, just a knock off]. that thing is one of the easiest to play and organic sounding electric guitars i have ever played. he loaned it to me for two diff 6 month periods before i owned my own electric, and it is the guitar i learned a LOT of riffs playing. the only adjustment he made to the way it came was to put a very thin piece of wood underneath the bridge whch gave the guitar a natural distortion and more play with thick strings than should be allowed a beginner. i still miss that guitar though i now have had 2 electrics of my own for years. which, brings me to story #2, the black sparkle strat.

a few yrs back my parents gave me money for hannukah. they told me not to use it for anything i needed, but to use it for something fun [knowing full well i would put it towards something music related as they have been very supportive of my playing since i began 7 yrs ago]. "buy yourself a toy," was my interpretation and off to guitar center i went [my toys r us]. i played every single guitar in my price range, but about 5 guitars in i found a squier black/silver sparkle strat that played better than any american or japanes or mexican fender strat i have ever played. i continued to play more guitars [and a bass or two] but every 3 or 4 i'd come back to that strat and every single time it played better than whatever i thought was the best of the last batch. i never even bothered to really look at the price tag i just knew from the other guitars around it that it would be in my range. then i did look. then i looked again. i may as well have stolen it, because for $125, i cannot begin to tell you what that guitar has meant to my playing. anyone who plays it [and i know and hang out with several other guys who play] all hate to have to give it back to me when i come back from having a cig or trying to be social at parties and not just dork out with my guitar buddies.

the lesson is ALWAYS play any instrument you are considering buying because what one may discount as a discount brand axe may be the one with the tone, or action, or bendable fretboard, or whatever it is you have been looking for. i was looking for a toy, and that strat is so easy to play that it may as well be. if i ever have a child that wants to play, they can learn on it.

ok virtual guitar buddies, enough of my manic side.

 

[Spudman]

RofG

While I agree with your principle it is not always the case. If it is possible to play something before buying then you should do so. That way you know for sure.

That said...

Sometimes it is not always possible to do that. That has been my case. I have at least 20 guitars that I never played ahead of buying that I absolutely love. Out of all that I have purchased unplayed I have run across 3 or 4 duds, which isn't bad considering that has been out of a pool of 40 or so guitars.

Your suggestion makes sense for the majority of purchases and certainly for less experienced players, but maybe it doesn't always have to be be the rule.

 

[R_of_G]

not a rule

agreed spudman. i don't hold it [or anything else] to be a hard and fast rule. simply saying that often if the only differentiating factor between two guitars is the brand, play em both, you may be surprised. you may not. or you may find one you know will sound good no matter what, or hope so. big risk, but your exp shows it is often worth it.

RofG

While I agree with your principle it is not always the case. If it is possible to play something before buying then you should do so. That way you know for sure.

That said...

Sometimes it is not always possible to do that. That has been my case. I have at least 20 guitars that I never played ahead of buying that I absolutely love. Out of all that I have purchased unplayed I have run across 3 or 4 duds, which isn't bad considering that has been out of a pool of 40 or so guitars.

Your suggestion makes sense for the majority of purchases and certainly for less experienced players, but maybe it doesn't always have to be be the rule.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

I see a lot of my brethren here going the way of buying without "playing" and for the most part it seems to work for them/you. Way to go! I am lucky enough to live in a big enough town to be able to play as many instruments as I possibly can and well..often do. I too can say that I appreciate the satisfaction that occurs when you find that one guitar that says "please take me home you know you want to". I think this distinction makes finding new guitars all worth the while but like I said...I am glad that some of you have been well pleased with your purchases sight unseen. Either way we get more guitars!

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I would have bought my Gibsons off of a showroom, but I had specific finishes in mind when I was shopping, and I never encountered them. So, I ordered them. One nice thing is that the last person to touch these guitars before I received them worked at Gibson - no showroom rash, no Frito infested strings, no gunked over finishes. They were brand new and spotless. A quick setup to my likings was all they needed.

 

[r_a_smith3530]

Yeah, I NEED one of those...but I was thinking more along the lines of THIS

MY buddy's set up was so bad that I couldnt play it long, he didnt have a strap so I had to play it seated...but after reading a couple reviews, I get the impression that its neck heavy, so Im kinda second guessing that choice...kinda makes the Les Paul even more desireable.

How about a compromise? How about one of THESE?

 

[R_of_G]

A good finish is a good call...

I agree, if you are ordering them straight from Gibson, and you know exactly what you want, you know you will get a good guitar. Still, not sure luthiers don't ear fritos even when they work at Gibson, but I def know what you mean . I was pretty much referring to the "if you are already in a showroom looking for a new guitar" scenario.

I would have bought my Gibsons off of a showroom, but I had specific finishes in mind when I was shopping, and I never encountered them. So, I ordered them. One nice thing is that the last person to touch these guitars before I received them worked at Gibson - no showroom rash, no Frito infested strings, no gunked over finishes. They were brand new and spotless. A quick setup to my likings was all they needed.

 

[R_of_G]

Not so much a fan of the Gibson solid-bodies

To be honest, I'm not personally a fan of the Gibson solid-bodies. While I absolutely love my ES-135, and it will prob always be my primary electric, when it comes to solid bodies, Gibsons have never done it for me. First things first, I love a lot of players who play/played them [Page, Santana, Zappa, etc]. I have just never been able to find one I can get the right sound out of for my own playing. I do love my fake strat, and I dream of the day I buy my Tele [you're out there somewhere, and I will find you]. Played a couple at the store yesterday when I went for some new cables, but neither really said take me home and play me more. Also played an SG, which wasn't bad, but I liked my Strat a little better.

Glad to see a bass player. I am almost positive my next guitar purchase will be a bass [if I don't find my Tele before then]. It will likely be a Fender jazz bass so I can bring the funk, but I will let you all know how it turns out [guessing late aug after my bday]. Now it's time to talk bass players... I'll open the bidding with Michael Henderson [Miles Davis, Stevie Wonder] and George Porter [the Meters]. Your call next...

How about a compromise? How about one of THESE?

 

[ShortBuSX]

How about a compromise? How about one of THESE?

I dont need the Gibson label to be content, the Epiphone line has more value to me...and to be perfectly honest the Gibson is out of my range, but thats alright too, as strange as it may sound, I like cheap guitars and to me thats "Vintage".

Also if you look, the Epiphone has more features than the Gibson...and believe me, I ask myself, do I want a cheap Gibson with less features or an affordable Epiphone with more? Pickups and electronics are somewhat moot, as almost everybody replaces them anyways, especially in either price range(or either of these guitars).

BUT I LOVE the suggestions, this is me and how I purchase items...the more information I can gather before putting down the cash, is all the much more better!

BTW I gotta chance to setup and play my buddy's Epiphone Faded SG yesterday, I put a strap on it and plugged into my own setup(gear)...and yes the guitar dives as soon as you remove your hand from the neck, but playing it wasnt an issue. I also notice the lower body contour(where youd place your knee when playing seated) was swept back further than most guitars tool...which seemed like it even aids in it being neck heavy even while seated And that also just felt strange to me like it wasnt consistant to how my right hand plays/rests/falls/strums on a Strat or Tele, but Id imagine Id adapt.

Right now Id dont think an SG is for me...although I think its shape and conours would be good for playing while laying down, either on a couch or (my usual)in bed while watching TV. My Strat is pretty comfy for this, but my Tele is near painful/numbing for lack of contours(digs into the ribs and forearm). An LP probably wont be so great for this playing posture/possition...but thats not really what Im after for the moment, I want one that ROCKS while standing up or seated.

 

[guitartist]

I love my Epi LP standard...I've played Gibsons and yes they are better, but for the money I'll stick with my Epi (pickup upgrades helped it a lot, to me that's the major difference between the sound of the Gibson and Epi LPs).

I've been eyeballing a used Epi Tony Iommi G-400 SG copy at a local store...its very tempting. I just bought an Agile last summer though that is basically an SG copy (well its a cross between an SG and an ESP Viper), and I don't think I need another SG copy, but the Epi Iommi sure is sweet.

If I ever win the lottery, I'd buy some Gibsons...I love my Washburn OS Delta King, which is basically a 335 copy. I got it new for $125, how much does a new Gibson 335 go for? They probably start at 2 grand...I have to ask, are they that much better? Well, if I ever win the lottery I guess I'll find out!

If I don't get that Epi Iommi SG copy, my next electric will probably be an Agile LP - I've heard they're even better quality than most Epi LPS, and I love my Agile SG copy. (it has a heavy neck too, which does take some getting used to...I used to have an Epi Flying V that was also neck-heavy, so I am sort of accustomed to dealing with a nose-diving neck...BTW, the Epi V was a great guitar too, wish I still had it!)

Personally I find strats the most comfortable to play, but classic Gibsons are wonderful instruments. I've heard that the new Gibsons don't measure up to their older ones though, but for the prices they're asking they sure ought to. With the quality of inexpensive knock-offs getting better all the time, Gibson had better watch out!

A guy who works in a guitar store I go to told me that Gibson's really hard to deal with, they take FOREVER to get back to him when he calls, and a store has to purchase a minimum of a hundred thousand $$$'s worth of Giibsons a year to be an official dealer ( I forgot the exact figure, but it was a quite a lot for a small store to have to carry in inventory). He has a theory that Gibson might be trying to squeeze out the small dealers and open up their own stores (that's just his own theory, I don't know if there's anything to it).

 

[ShortBuSX]

A guy who works in a guitar store I go to told me that Gibson's really hard to deal with, they take FOREVER to get back to him when he calls, and a store has to purchase a minimum of a hundred thousand $$$'s worth of Giibsons a year to be an official dealer ( I forgot the exact figure, but it was a quite a lot for a small store to have to carry in inventory). He has a theory that Gibson might be trying to squeeze out the small dealers and open up their own stores (that's just his own theory, I don't know if there's anything to it).

My local shop says the same thing...I always try and buy locally when ever possible.