Frustrations playing with others...and advancing

[warren0728]

But I fall off a 4 foot stage with my amp...and thats it???
Love me or hate me...thats it? Really???

awww c'mon....you'll heal....the amp...not that could have been serious!! oke: :rotflmao:

ww

 

[mannydingo]

You know, after reading of your ordeal, it almost sounds like you're going to form a band with your own set of bandmates or you're the one that's going to take over this band. You seem to have all your screws in place and your friends seem somewhat sloppy. I think they're just guys with good timing and few chops. Hmm, sounds a lot like me. They also have experience. The different musical taste seems an issue also. The only problem I see is your timing issue. My best friend tried for years to correct that problem and could not. He could learn the song exactly as it was supposed to go but when we tried to play together, it was impossible. You are going to have to address that issue and seriously. I don't know if the extent of the problem is like that of my friend's but you CANNOT play in a band with timing problems. I would rather have a mediocre or even entry-level guitar player that can play in timing than a guitar virtuoso that can't play in timing. I don't care how many flashy moves you can make with a guitar, poor timing means no-go.

 

[ShortBuSX]

You know, after reading of your ordeal, it almost sounds like you're going to form a band with your own set of bandmates or you're the one that's going to take over this band.

Nah, thatll never happen...I'll never be in this band, not that I wouldnt like to. But right now it is what it is, and thats a pretty damn good learning experience on multiple levels. I cant even begin to count the ways.

You seem to have all your screws in place and your friends seem somewhat sloppy. I think they're just guys with good timing and few chops. Hmm, sounds a lot like me. They also have experience.

They seem to speak an unspoken language and teir communication seems to work for them...IM just lucky if Im able to make out a couple of phrases, but Im learning.

The different musical taste seems an issue also. The only problem I see is your timing issue. My best friend tried for years to correct that problem and could not. He could learn the song exactly as it was supposed to go but when we tried to play together, it was impossible. You are going to have to address that issue and seriously. I don't know if the extent of the problem is like that of my friend's but you CANNOT play in a band with timing problems. I would rather have a mediocre or even entry-level guitar player that can play in timing than a guitar virtuoso that can't play in timing. I don't care how many flashy moves you can make with a guitar, poor timing means no-go.

Im always going to continue to learn songs on my own, the only way I know how(its tough for me at times) but I plan to continue to learn theory as well...but I find I do better when Im in the fold and not leading(for the time being)...my song selection isnt the most popular, but if I was in a band Id like to do something a lil different than the local live music scene already has.
Being in the fold and not leading also means Im able to find my timing as well...I can follow time, but I cant carry time(yet)...my loopstation is helping with my timing though, I just need to practice more.
I could go on a bit more, and realize Im not being defensive or anything, Im kinda just figureing out my strenghts and weaknesses...and this topic has really helped me sort out my issues, such as where I am, where I wanna be and how Im gonna get there...this topic has also made me grateful for the freinds and experience I get to share with them, and thanks for responding!:AOK:

 

[mannydingo]

You said "I can follow time, but I cant carry time(yet)". I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Maybe you speak a different language for me like your band does for you. Oh, and the music theory. I started playing guitar that way and very quickly left it. The reason music theory existed was because when a guy like Mozart or someone earlier than that, was making long, complicated masterpieces, he couldn't just record part by part like we can so he had to write them down so he wouldn't forget a part here and there he had already composed earlier for that same particular work.

Also, if those composers were writing a symphony, you couldn't just get a CD, MP3 or tape and distribute it out to the musicians, you had no other choice but to hand out the musical notation in written form. Musical notation is no longer necessary unless you are going to be writing for a symphony or a mega large band. I guess the only exceptions are a studio musician or live stand-in on call unless you're a prodigy and can hear something once or twice and know how to play it right away. There's nothing wrong with learning it though, you can't deny it's a plus. However, that's all it is in this day in age, a plus.

 

[ShortBuSX]

You said "I can follow time, but I cant carry time(yet)". I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Maybe you speak a different language for me like your band does for you.

If you and I were jammin together, I could follow your timing just fine...but you wouldnt wanna follow my timing so much, IM told Im rather free with the timing.

Oh, and the music theory. I started playing guitar that way and very quickly left it. The reason music theory existed was because when a guy like Mozart or someone earlier than that, was making long, complicated masterpieces, he couldn't just record part by part like we can so he had to write them down so he wouldn't forget a part here and there he had already composed earlier for that same particular work.

I need music theory for multiple reasons(AND you should too).
For me, I NEED to know WHY this goes with that, and why this doesnt...Ive always needed to know, if I dont know then I dont understand.
I also need it to communicate, plain and simple...its a language.

Seriosuly, if you show up at a jam, and the guy youre jamming with says, "this next one starts off on the 4 in the key of G"...I personally wanna know WTF hes talking about, and further more I wanna know what hes not saying...like how to(improvise a)solo over what he just said.
You cant avoid it forever, your lack of communication can only get you so far for so long...youre lucky if you can find a group of people who just "hear" or "feel" it all.

 

[mannydingo]

If you and I were jammin together, I could follow your timing just fine...but you wouldnt wanna follow my timing so much, IM told Im rather free with the timing.



I need music theory for multiple reasons(AND you should too).
For me, I NEED to know WHY this goes with that, and why this doesnt...Ive always needed to know, if I dont know then I dont understand.
I also need it to communicate, plain and simple...its a language.

Notice that your saying you "need" to know sounds like it's something you, personally, need to know. I'm not saying it can't come in useful but you would have to, out of coincidence, come across a band whose members ALL do everything by musical notation and theory.

Seriosuly, if you show up at a jam, and the guy you're jamming with says, "this next one starts off on the 4 in the key of G"...I personally wanna know WTF hes talking about, and further more I wanna know what hes not saying...like how to(improvise a)solo over what he just said.
You cant avoid it forever, your lack of communication can only get you so far for so long...youre lucky if you can find a group of people who just "hear" or "feel" it all.

Ofcourse I can understand when someone says that the next song is in B flat minor. That doesn't require musical notation. You can even know the terms for scales. For example, you may be told the lead for the next song is a mixolydian scale. I'm telling you, most guys that learned musical notation and its theory also know how to just play by ear. Also, most guys that know theory CANNOT, I know from experience, just start jammin' with a group of guys with songs they don't know. Yes, I have met the ones that CAN do it also. More-so, the vast majority of famous bands do NOT know how to read music. That is a fact. Once again, it is definitely better to know musical notation and as much theory as you can but these days it's not as necessary as you think. I actually encourage you to learn it, especially if you have the get-up-and-go to learn it. Once again, it's better to know it but YES, you can avoid it forever. The couple of times you will come across people you can't play with due to not knowing musical theory is miniscule in today's world.

 

[ShortBuSX]

I have very little desire to be able to read music(standard notation).

I also think you are making generalizations when in fact everybody is different.

And I personally, feel the need to know how everything works, in general, if Im going to be able to use it(whatever "it" shall be) to its fullest potential...I have a wanton need to know and learn.

I'll also admit that my way isnt an easy road...but I wasnt born with THE gift either. I reckon I could stand still and continue to do what Ive always done, but I feel this is the route for me to progress.

I will also say this too, I recently recieved a copy of Mark Wein's book "Foundations for Guitar". Its got a lil bit of standard notation in there(among other things), and it seems to explain it rather simply...I can see myself reading standard notation in the not so distant future...and maybe then I wont have to make excusses to myself as to how and why its not important.

And lastly, for all of those famous musicians who cant read standard notion...Im sure plenty of them wish they could, but that is an assumption on my part.

 

[mannydingo]

I have very little desire to be able to read music(standard notation).

I also think you are making generalizations when in fact everybody is different.

And I personally, feel the need to know how everything works....................I have a wanton need to know and learn.

I saw reading notation as your main objective. I was wrong. You are right that I'm making generalizations. That's because I believe the "general" public of musicians doesn't need all the theory. The more complex the music gets, the more beneficial it is to learn. You seem to be going in that direction. It can still be done w/o by most musicians, as I said, and that's where my generalization lies. Generalizing isn't always a bad thing to do. It's just another way of saying "the majority" Ofcourse, there are others who are the total opposite. I know we've covered the notation issue but I knew a girl who played piano great but could not do it if she wasn't reading standard notation. She could not play be ear.

And lastly, for all of those famous musicians who cant read standard notion...Im sure plenty of them wish they could, but that is an assumption on my part.

Your assumption is pretty much fact. They "prefer" to be able to read it. However, the learning involved for such a boring thing makes them not do it since it's so unncessary in today's world, as I mentioned earlier. What can I say, just call it my opinion. I think I'd better stop since I've hijacked this thread into a totally different topic. Sorry guys.

 

[Andy]

In this town it can be very necessary ,except we have yet annother quagmire, the nashville number system.

It's pretty much a requirement to get into the local union ect...

but not necesary for just gigging around town

 

[mannydingo]

In this town it can be very necessary ,except we have yet annother quagmire, the nashville number system.

It's pretty much a requirement to get into the local union ect...

but not necesary for just gigging around town

I can see where, in a certain city, the trend could start and then it becomes a necessity. You also said, it's not necessary to just gig around town. I've heard of a number system but a city specific "Nashville" number system? Geez, I feel sorry for out of towners coming in to play or moving into the city. They have to almost start all over again.:thwap: Once again, this is called Hijacking a thread. Even the thread starter has hijacked his own thread along with me. I'm trying to stop.:messedup: