GAS ATTACK! Washburn D10SCELHBK!

[WackyT]

Just scored a 2008 Washburn D10SCELHBK off eBay!

:R

 

[Blaze]

Good for you Wack ,looks nice ..

 

[evenkeel]

Way nice!!!! :bravo: :beer:

 

[luvmyshiner]

Very nice Wacky! You're going to enjoy it lotses.

 

[duhvoodooman]

Cool! Enjoy it.... :AOK: :dude: :beer: :rockon:

 

[Rocket]

Oh no... not P-Hill!

You should read up on Jeffy over at the Washburn forum before you give up your money.
Seriously!

Washburn guys... help me out here to warn WackyT.

 

[Robert]

Congrats! Looks like the image is mirrored, what's up with that? ....

Now, let's hear you strum that sucka!

 

[tjcurtin1]

Looks nice - you gone lefty on us?

 

[WackyT]

Oh no... not P-Hill!

You should read up on Jeffy over at the Washburn forum before you give up your money.
Seriously!

Washburn guys... help me out here to warn WackyT.

What's P-Hill? If it's a seller on eBay, I bought this from Butler Music Store.

Thanks everyone! I've been a lefty since I was born. My mom had to get my grandma, a fellow lefty, to teach me how to tie my shoes when I was growing up.

 

[Algonquin]

Looks good Tim :AOK:

Enjoy the new geetar!

 

[Rocket]

Butler, P-Hill, same-O same-O.
See seller is P-Hill (Jeff Sefton)
P-Hill buys up all the damaged, defective, blemished, cracked, broken, etc. garbage that is retail unsellable... and then sells it on eBay to unsuspecting customers.
It's your money, but buyer beware.

 

[WackyT]

Butler, P-Hill, same-O same-O.
See seller is P-Hill (Jeff Sefton)
P-Hill buys up all the damaged, defective, blemished, cracked, broken, etc. garbage that is retail unsellable... and then sells it on eBay to unsuspecting customers.
It's your money, but buyer beware.

Thanks for the warning. I'll be sure to go over the guitar fully when I get it.

Also, from the auction:

This guitar ( and all of the others I will be listing as specials) come with the full factory lifetime warranty and is in all respects a new guitar.

So, this isn't a B-Stock item with no warranty.

 

[Rocket]

This probably won't surprise you... he lies!
Do a search on Washburn forum to see the real P-Hill... Jeffy threatened to sue us all with his giant legal team (heh-heh) for warning his customers. Problem was... nobody said anything untrue.
Ask around... ask Dreadman and the rest of the Washburn transfers.

Keep in mind that the price + shipping and you could've walked into a store and gotten a brand new (and undefective) same model for same price.
Nuff said... you've been warned... I feel better anyway.

 

[luvmyshiner]

Gotta go with Rocket on this one. Look it over REAL well. Mr. Sefton has been known to sell b-stock without bothering to mention it was b-stock. He has also known to "claim" there were only minor blemishes when there were structural defects. And yes, he has threatened to sue a few folks.

Wacky, if you find anything wrong send it back right away.

 

[WackyT]

This probably won't surprise you... he lies!
Do a search on Washburn forum to see the real P-Hill... Jeffy threatened to sue us all with his giant legal team (heh-heh) for warning his customers. Problem was... nobody said anything untrue.
Ask around... ask Dreadman and the rest of the Washburn transfers.

Keep in mind that the price + shipping and you could've walked into a store and gotten a brand new (and undefective) same model for same price.
Nuff said... you've been warned... I feel better anyway.

Well, seeing as I bought it for $275 w/ free shipping, and a comparable one (natural finish, not black) from Musician's Friend is $439, I don't think I could've gotten it locally for the same price I paid.

I did a search on the Washburn Forums for P-Hill, and found a mixture of good and bad. I did a search for Jeffy on there, and came up with nil. Can you direct me to a post where someone got a nonwarrantied B Stock item from an eBay auction from this seller advertising a warrantied new item? If you want to, you can message me the URL.

Thanks again.

 

[Rocket]

I think a former Washburn moderator (browndog) deleted all the negs about P-Hill & Sefton in particular... then he warned us to not blab about Washburn dealers (negatively, of course.) Didn't stop us. Let's put it this way... he's gone, we're still there!
Hey, it's your dollars. I just wanted to warn you because I always feel the need to protect compadres. You can always return it if it's not what it should be.
Note: I'm pretty sure Washburn won't honor the warranty. P-Hill is not an actual dealer... it's a reseller. Big difference.

Edit: Read through these...
http://forums.washburn.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7206
http://forums.washburn.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5778

 

[WackyT]

Just checked on the Washburn website for Dealers, and came up with this:

Results of search near 64730

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
37 miles
View Map P HILL AUCTION

214 1ST STREET


PLEASANT HILL, MO 64080
816-540-2400
[email protected]

64730 is the zip code for Butler Music. Looks like P-Hill is an authorized Washburn dealer. Sounds like some people have a vendetta out for this store. I'll be sure to fully check out the guitar when I get it. And I'll be sure to register it on the Washburn website when I get it, seeing as the say it's under full warranty. Thanks again.

 

[Kazz]

Nobody including Rocket, Shiner or myself have/had any vendetta against Jeff Sefton. There were plenty of threads and posts in reference to Mr. Sefton and has poor customer service. I was one of the lucky ones. The guitar I ordered from him when it showed up was completely the wrong model. I ordered a D10SCEB and received a D10QSB the quilting was pretty cool even tho it was orange and not the red that was being shown in all of the pictures I had looked at prior. I called complained...he pretty much refused to send me the correct guitar until the 3rd time I called. He wanted me to ship the mistake back to him at my expense. Finally got him to agree to issue a call tag and ship the D10SCEB...when it arrived it definitely was not the one listed in the auction and it was supposed to be actual photos not stock. He also never issued a call tag for the D10QSB....so I kept it too.

Have long since sold the D10SCEB and gave the D10QSB to a family friend who always had an eye on it when they would come visit.

Caveat Emptor.......check it out yourself....take it to a respectable luthier too.....and if anything is wrong with it or Washburn does not honor the warranty (and they have been known to not do that frequently) Then send it back to Jeff and get a refund.....if he will do that. Good luck

 

[Rocket]

Ok... you caught me... it was a total fabrication. I think you should buy a bunch more from P-Hill because they are a premier dealer in quality, first choice instruments.
---
1) I have no vendetta for P-Hill.
2) They may have become a dealer since all of that went down.
3) I don't care what you spend your money on... it was merely a heads-up.

I totally understand that some folks just don't care to hear warnings from strangers... independent human nature and all that!
I still feel good about doing my part.

 

[WackyT]

Thanks for the warning, Rocket & Kazz. If there is a problem, I will work it through Butler Music, eBay, and Washburn. By what I was able to find on the Washburn forum, it seems the problems were predominantly with B Stock items.

 

[Rocket]

By what I was able to find on the Washburn forum, it seems the problems were predominantly with B Stock items.

I think you're missing the message... EVERYTHING P-Hill sells IS B-Stock (whether it says so or not.) They made their business from buying up all the junk that was returned to Washburn from other dealers at a huge discount and selling it on eBay with misleading description for a slight discount. He's gotten away with it because most people that he sells to wouldn't know the difference and people that would know wouldn't buy from P-Hill.

I'm done with this thread!

 

[WackyT]

Thanks again Rocket. I've read through the first thread you posted, and it seems at least back in 2006/2007, in which this thread occurred, there was a mixed opinion as to P-Hill/Jeff Sefton. And I just got a reply back from Washburn that states:

Hi Timothy

Butler music is indeed one of our dealers, your warranty will be honored. All you need is a proof of purchase in the event of a problem.

Thanks!


Ryan Struck
USMusic Customer Service
444 E Courtland St
Mundelein, Il 60060
phone: 1-800-877-6863
efax: 1-775-703-1198

So, I think I'll go by the saying Caveat Emptor, which everyone does when purchasing anything online or retail, and wait for the guitar to arrive to make my decision.

 

[wingsdad]

...
Washburn guys... help me out here to warn WackyT.

It doesn't surprise me that P-Hill/Butler Music is now an official Washburn dealer, since US Music seems to have had a difficult time with it's Pacific Rim jobbers that replaced Korean manufacturers (notably since Samick closed its Korean factory and moved to Indonesia) supplying first-quality product, on time or late, to its dealers the past couple of years, and then renegging on warranty claims put forth by the selling dealer.

I'm speaking here of personal experience witnessed with my local Washburn dealer, who has gradually phased away from carrying Wash's to any extent. For years, they were his feature mid-line price-point acoustic and electric. Then came the long stream of obviously defective product...bridges lifting on acoustics, foggy or bubbly gloss finishes on some Idol Series electrics....being foisted on him as first quality for the past year or so, and Washburn not budging.

Independent 'mom & pop' dealers don't have the resources to deal with bull like that. And since they truly have more at stake operating a brick n' mortar store serving a community, local market rather than a faceless internet market, they can't afford to carry or sell products that will alienate their customers.

So my dealer has phased Washburn out, over to Ibanez, Takamine G-Series or Jasmine and Ovation Celebrity series acoustics for Chinese or Indonesian guitars of satisfactory quality for their price points ($200-$500). Schecter & Ibanez fill the electric points Washburn used to occupy ($300-$600).

Oscar Schhmidt Ukes, Mandos and Autoharps are still good buys. Most of the time.

But Washburn stuff newer than 2005 can be a crapshoot.

Good luck.

 

[WackyT]

So, is this that Rocket's talking about more an all around Washburn issue rather than a single dealer issue? I was under the impression that Washburn was a good affordable guitar.

 

[wingsdad]

Washburn does produce good affordable guitars. The D10 series is the real deal. It's just been a rough couple of years as far as production qualityconsistency goes for them compared to years past.

P-Hill has been as Rocket describes them, but that doesn't mean all Washburn dealers are dirt-bags, or you can't get a good Washburn.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Keep up the conversation guys. I'm finding this very informative.

 

[WackyT]

So Wingsdad, you're confirming Rocket's accusation that P-Hill / Butler Music are actually selling me a B Stock guitar, when they advertised it as brand new and warrantied?

 

[Rocket]

Acoustic Guitar Magazine voted Washburn D10SK (K = kase... don't ask!) as "Best Selling Acoustic Guitar Under $500."

Best selling has nothing to do with quality... they just sold a bunch of them, partly because they're priced right, and partly because they failed to produce anything else for last couple years. One of the huge issues last couple years was the scarcity of the higher-end models that everyone wanted... all that was around was old-stock and D10's.

Let me state that I like Washburn... they are a huge chapter in American guitar history. In more recent times; however, they've just been run into the cesspool by being cheap & greedy & boning their customers with their frivolity under their new prez.

I *****ed enough about one particular model (D64SW "The Bluegrass") that they've been advertising for 2-years that nobody could find. Washburn ended up sending me one from the factory for evaluation and review.

Bottom line... Washburn is having production & quality control problems, (and in deep denial!)

If I'm wrong... correct me.

 

[wingsdad]

So Wingsdad, you're confirming Rocket's accusation that P-Hill / Butler Music are actually selling me a B Stock guitar, when they advertised it as brand new and warrantied?

No.

But I am confirming that they've done that...there were several documented incidents of that practice on the Wash Forum by the time I ceased participating in it over a year ago.

I can also personally confirm Rocket's point about Wash's lack of new product to fill orders and shipping NOS product...I bought a brand new NV100C in March of '06 that was built in '04 (by a Korean factory) and had been a booth display item at Winter Namm '06. Then they discontinued the model soon thereafter. Read: they cut the cord with the Korean factory. I still have this guitar.

I also bought another booth display piece at that time, a WI66-PROG Idol Korean-made, '05, new enough to not be NOS. About 6 months later, my dealer got another of these....made in China. All the import Idols were now coming from China, then some from Indonesia. I'm of the opinion that most Korean guitars produced OEM are top-notch, 2nd to Japanese, some on a par, as far as Pacific Rim product goes. I sold this guitar to strike a deal on a different P90 guitar.

Rocket has just reiterated what I was stating and I have witnessed Washburn's jerking a long-time independent dealer and his customers to the point of the dealer throwing in the towel as far as investing in their product as something he can sell with any confidence and trusting his more reliable manufacturers.

 

[Rocket]

All the advanced membership from Washburn forum landed here for a reason... they all became disallusioned with the way Washburn was doing business. We kept hearing all these tales & horror stories from new Washburn owners with little or no response from the company. We found out later that almost all the screw-jobs were coming from 3 sources: P-Hill, GMan, & GC (MF, M123, et al.)
Like mentioned before, I don't have a personal vendetta with any of these because I never bought anything from them. I do have a BIG problem with cheesy business practices with little or no option for restitution.
I personally don't care if everyone wants to stick their money in a paper shredder... not my business. I will warn people though to make myself feel like I've done the honorable thing. What they choose to do with that warning is golden.