Gas Attack!!

[YerDugliness]

Ok, Fretters, I'm feeling the effects of that oh, so obvious malady, GAS.

I'm searching for an mid-price steel string 12-fretter and I have GAS for this one:

http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=247&CollectionID=15

My only problem is that it has a cedar top. I own two classical guitars, and the one with a spruce top has notably more emphasis on the trebbles than does the cedar top guitar. I'm ready to admit that the difference might be age (spruce is reported to age more gracefully than cedar), or perhaps build quality (the spruce top classical is a higher end guitar, where the cedar top guitar is just average), but I'm at a loss as to what to expect on a steel string cedar top guitar.

This is one of Epiphone's Masterbuilt line, which is pretty highly regarded, so I guess they must know what they are doing, I'm just surprised that they don't put a spruce top on it.............why????????

What do you think, Fretters????? I'd be interested in hearing from y'all who might have a cedar topped steel string guitar. I'm interested in hearing how it has held up to ageing, how much definition you feel the guitar has in the upper range, how it responds to fingerstyle playing, anything you can tell me about it.

Thanks for whatever you can offer to this ol'......

Dugly

 

[mrmudcat]

Both Cedar and Spruce share the same virtues in terms of better sound and the ability to age. In the end, this is a totally subjective question that can only be answered by playing guitars with both kinds of tops. The solid rosewood body of course is sweet!! In other words id say go get it that is a nice guitfiddle:beer:

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I had heard that cedar was slightly more vulnerable to dents, etc. I have played spruce top Seagulls and found them to be nice, just not what I am after. No real life experience though.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

Cedar gives off a warmer midrange which you might like while finger picking as you can readily alter the chirp with your finger touch. Spruce is spanky on top yes but even with cedar and trying different string brands you may like the tones you get with it.

 

[wingsdad]

I have a solid cedar top Takamine Santa Fe but with a pretty unusual back & sides wood: solid silky oak. It's not a typical 'oak', maybe not really oak; it's a wood from New Zealand that's also called (there) lacewood. Whatever it is, it's hard and dense, with a grain something like a birdseye maple, I suppose; looks like fish scales, tight circles. It's a smaller body cutaway, thinner than a dread at 4" deep in the lower bouts, what Takamine calls a NEX body, Tacoma calls a 'little jumbo', and I guess others call a Grand Concert or even 'folk'.

So, the point is, as you mention, Dugly, Cedar doesn't produce the ringing trebles, but with a more 'reflective' body/sides wood like this one, or maple, perhaps mahogany or koa, it tempers potentially excessive 'glassiness' or brightness of mids & treble range tone and perhaps enriches lower register, bass. Balances things out. And that's what I like about it. It's a unique acoustic tone to me. I wouldn't want it to be my only acoustic, not a 'go-to' guitar. It's a little limited in that regard.

This Epi you're looking at is solid rosewood b/s. Without hearing the combination of woods and deeper body, intuitively, I'd presume it could tend to be a little thick or muddy, unbalance.

You'd have to hear one, I suppose. It all comes down to what you think of the tone.

 

[YerDugliness]

This Epi you're looking at is solid rosewood b/s. Without hearing the combination of woods and deeper body, intuitively, I'd presume it could tend to be a little thick or muddy, unbalance.

You'd have to hear one, I suppose. It all comes down to what you think of the tone.

Yeah, I'd agree, Wingsdad. These just don't seem to be available right now, but a lot of dealers are expecting shipments around the first of the year. Epiphone mounts the bridge after the top is finished and bridge lifting has been an issue for some time. There's one on eBay right now that has a lifted bridge.

I'll play before I buy, for sure. The reviews are great regarding the volume and tone from this axe, the wide string spacing and the incredible sustain. The cedar top gives it limited tolerance for strong strumming, but I have a good dread for that and would more likely use this one for fingerstyle, anyway--by all accounts, that's the method for which this one is designed.

Still looking, though. I found a Santa Fe 12-fretter for sale at a guitar shop, mahogany back and sides, at $2750.

Just curious--I'm still very interested in those Tacoma guitars. Do you know if Tacoma ever made a 12-fretter? I've always wanted one, would not mind searching for the right piece. I like the ring of a good spruce top and the bass of a guitar with rosewood S&B. I can get a Breedlove custom job, might go for that if I can't find anything else that floats my boat, but those Tacoma guitars are so highly regarded I'd sure look for one of theirs.

Dugly

 

[wingsdad]

... Do you know if Tacoma ever made a 12-fretter? ...

No 12-Fretters, Dugly, unless before Fender bought them they made a special order custom build for someone - an individual or Ed Roman (the Vegas guitar store) for whom they made some spectacular exotic wood exclusives.

However, their 'Parlor' models were based on the Nick Lucas style body -- small, higher (close to the neck joint) bridge placement similar a 12-Fretter, but different than most Parlors with a body nearly as deep as a Dread at 4" (about). Tacoma fingerstylers rave about these and their distinctively surprising volume and tone balance for a small body. If you haven't, hit the Tacoma website link and find the Catalog (2005) download. In the 28 Series on p. 25 is the last of their Parlors, PM28. mahogany & spruce. My local dealer I told you about offline is trying to locate 2 of them - for a guy from Tennessee and for...me :crazyguy: Got lots of gits, but none of this type.

They did make PR's (Rosewood b/s) and PK's (koa b/s), even all koa P's, I think til about 2003. Here's a '97 PK-40 at Elderly Instruments -- pretty sure as an early Tac, it's laminated b/s. Not your cup of tea, perhaps, but...
http://elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-10816.htm

Happy hunting...

 

[pie_man_25]

I find that epiphone tends to be dishonest with their woods, it may not be a cedar top, example: my friend has an epi G-400 custom, which is supposed to be made of mahogany, I did some work on it, and it was way too light, maybe four pounds tops, so I decided to scratch one of the dents through the finish a little bit, surely enough, the dark wood underneath was just a vineer, and this wood looke a lot like alder, I was really only supposed to replace the pickups, which are supposed to be alnico but looked more like ceramic magnets. It's still a great axe, don't get me wrong, but just be careful because they may be lying to you.