Gear Snobbery

[Plank_Spanker]

I spent last night talking guitars with a friend of mine who's an absolute monster player with a wealth of wisdom on guitars and the entire game of professional music. We got on the subject of gear snobbery and it got me thinking............

I spent a little time cruising some other boards this morning, and some of the posts are astounding:

"My TV Yellow was applied by the same guy who did the original TV yellow"

"The new Les Pauls just have a CNC feel to me." (what the hell does that mean?)

"I applied my tweed Tolex using a late 1800's glue formula. It's completely organic and adds to the warmth of the cabinet"

"My guitar is built using 200 year old wood"

**************************************

I'm astounded! Who cares if the wood used in your Mansion Blaster guitar was harvested under a full Moon by a dozen nude vestal virgins? Who cares if your TV yellow was painted by the same guy who painted the original?

This sort of one-upmanship nauseates me. I could care less about what other players think of my gear choices, and I certainly don't bag on someone elses. To each his own....................

Whatever happened to just being happy with what you have and playing the hell out of it?

 

[Robert]

Good topic! I am mostly happy with my cheap gear, and I think I am playing the hell out of it too.

I seen those kind of posts on other forums too. I remember one guy who wanted advice for amps. He had had all the top of the line stuff - Mesa Boogie, Top Hat, Matchless, Bogner, Marshall, Fender, Dr. Z, Bad Cat, you name it - still he said he sold it all because nothing could give him the tone he was looking for. Unreal!

I think some people are more interested in buying and talking about guitar gear than playing it. I guess that might be a hobby in itself, but that's not for me - I want to play the stuff!

A Mansion Blaster guitar harvested under a full Moon by a dozen nude vestal virgins? Hmm, now that sounds like my kind of guitar!
How much would it cost me? R

 

[oldguy]

Plank,
Man, you hit the nail on the head with a two pound hammer, Plank!

I'm always happy as a clam when friends get a new axe, amp, whatever. I know it's something they worked and saved for and dreamed of. But when someone doesn't like what I play because they don't play it, they're being snobs IMHO. And if I were to put them down because of their choice, I'd be a snob myself.
I have a strat copy I refinished in Danish oil and tung oiled the neck.
I have a '52 butterscotch Tele built from licensed parts.
Fender didn't build' em, I don't care.
I have a '65 Super Reverb. Fender built it. I don't care. Frankly, it's a good sound but a one-trick pony. I've heard some of the fretters post clips on here through Vox's, Tonelab's, POD's, that are versatile and sound GREAT!
I don't push my preferences on anybody. I saw a guy show up at a gig as a fill in lead player once with an axe called a "Guitorgan", can't remember who built it (maybe Conn instruments?) and a Roland Jazz Chorus amp. I stopped being snobbish about sound right then and there. Never heard anyone that good around here since. Blew everyone else out of the water. But... he was also very good at what he did. He put in years of work to play like that.
To each his own, as you say. It's personal preference.
I don't think I'd like rap played on a washtub bass with a backup on spoons and bagpipes, tho.

 

[Hogfullofblues]

I lucked out on this subject as a newbie by stumbling across Dolphin Street and this very forum. Listening to Robert's tone (and ability) on a "cheap" guitar thru a $39 pedal plus all the posts and clips here have clued me in pretty well. So now I own a $99 guitar and I'll be danged, it sounds awesome. Now that's not to say I may never splurge on some top of the line gear someday, and I would never disparage anyone who does own such wonderful gear. But let's face it. At this point my playing a $2000+ guitar would be like dressing a pig in an evening gown.
Now, rap played on bagpipes and spoons by nude vestal virigns under a full moon? Count me in on that.

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

At this point my playing a $2000+ guitar would be like dressing a pig in an evening gown.

I hear ya Hog... I think of myself as the monkey still holding the tin cup for the organ grinder.. till I learn to grind an organ..I am very content with the cheapness I have learned here... hmmm.. don't sound right.. anyways.. I wouldn't know if I was playing a Eric Clapton original or a MIM Strat anyways.. so I will save the money till I do... and than wonder why in the world would I want to spend that much on something when I can tinker with the cheap things....

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Plank, folx with money get nutto. People will obsess about anything.

I try to get what will best help me to enjoy playing, given my budget, and once I have it I like to explore every nuance of the gear I've got. I couldn't give a rat's *** about the gear I don't have.

...well if you *really* wanted to trade your vintage gear for a rat's ***. I'd be at the vermin control aisle at Home Depot faster than you can play the rat's *** polka on spoons.

Now, rap played on bagpipes and spoons by nude vestal virigns under a full moon? Count me in on that.

...ummm are those 1816, LLywernog House of Windsor 97.3% sterling spoons?

Yes? Fine, but from mine 2 or 3?

 

[Plank_Spanker]

It's not just your bank account. I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford pretty much any piece of gear I desire, but I'm not out there seeking that piece for all of my friends to admire. I seek pieces that I can play and play at gigs.

I believe that most of these "cigar and cognac" gear snobs play very little, if at all. When they do, it's within the controlled confines of their houses - definitely not a bar full of rowdy drunks!

 

[duhvoodooman]

I know a guy--a really nice fellow and a heckuva good musician, too--who bought two Epiphones ONLY because they didn't say "Epiphone" on the headstock and he was able to buy pickguards and truss rod covers that said "Gibson" and replace the stock ones. Now, mind you, he freely admits these guitars play and sound great, but he's so hung up on the Gibson name that he just couldn't stand having the "E word" on the guitars! He freely admits that, if the Epiphone brand name had been inlaid on the headstock, he wouldn't have bought them! I've been trying to get him to see how absolutely silly that is, but haven't been able to get past the "brand prejudice" factor yet....

 

[Spudman]

I saw a guy show up at a gig as a fill in lead player once with an axe called a "Guitorgan", can't remember who built it (maybe Conn instruments?) and a Roland Jazz Chorus amp. I stopped being snobbish about sound right then and there. Never heard anyone that good around here since. Blew everyone else out of the water. But... he was also very good at what he did. He put in years of work to play like that.

If he was an older guy, tall, no hair or little of it and it was a while ago it could have been Oliver English. He was one of the designers and proto tester of the Guitorgan. While it was in development I was sitting at his feet learning guitar and occasionally sitting in with him. He had a house gig in my home town for a long time until the establishment burned down. He may have left before the fire. I wouldn't know because I was on the road at the time. Sometimes on a dark stage you could see sparks where the strings touched the fretboard. I think that is where Ace may have gotten the fire guitar idea.

Oliver was the true master of the Guitorgan.

 

[Spudman]

Something similar...

You want to talk about gear snobs? Hang out in a bicycle shop or in the parking lot after a race or anywhere there is an assemblage of cyclists. They take the cake.

Back when I was racing bicycles professionally I went to an event in Colorado and John Tomac was there kicking everyones butts with a beat up DeRosa road bike with Shimano 105. Not top of the line stuff. He won the Criterium and was in the top 5 in the road race among the best in the nation. That season he went on to win the National Criterium Championship on that beat up bike with lower end components.

Bottom line....it's the man that makes the music.

I've even heard some great music played on Fisher Price toys. Try getting snobby about that!

 

[stingx]

I don't buy gear to impress my friends. I buy gear that strikes my fancy. One of my favorite pieces in an extensive collection is the Schecter PT Elite I bought used for about $250. I wasn't even there to buy a guitar. I just saw it hanging on the wall, picked it up and plugged it in. I thought it sounded fantastic so I bought it. If the price tag had an extra 0 on it I still would have bought it because that's how much I liked it.

You can always tell who buys stuff to impress and who actually plays. It's the same with bikes. I bought a Honda VTX. It's my fourth bike and second Honda. I bought it because it had everything I wanted...a huge cc engine, liquid cooling, drive shaft, and no spoked wheels. Plus it is perfect for interstate travel. I could have bough any bike I wanted. I get the "but it isn't a harley" shtick every now and again. I bought a bike to RIDE. I didn't have to pay 3 times as much to buy into an IMAGE.

Gear is gear. You'll always have gear snobbery. No need to let it bother you though.

 

[Mark]

You now this happens in a lot of things. Ive ridden and built motorcycles most of my life. Hondas, Triumph,s Harley's you name it. I dont build them anymore but I do own a Harley. I run into guys with the "I ride a hog cause its the only REAL scoot" I laugh cause the wind is the same no matter what you ride and Ill ride along anyone as long as their not drunk or stoned.

As far as music gear I have been very fortunate in starting and owning my own business. When I was younger I couldnt afford the nice gear I have now and I have aquired my EC Strat and a Gibson ES-335 my next guitar which is on the way is a Tele which I will build myself and I know it will rival and or beat any custom shop offerings,as I did my Tweed DeLuxe custom built BooTeek built by me amph. I recently picked up a 69 Drip edge black line Princeton reverb Amp which Im really digging and sold my BDRI to get. I wanted a piece of history and something collectable that I can enjoy as well.

My thinking on some of my gear is to buy things I enjoy that will hopefully retain or appreciate in value for my son when Im gone. But when I see guitars with 30,000 year old mamoth tusk nut and other drivel I just shake my head its just kinda nuts out there. There are people out there that know how to market to those GAS attacks we all get. Then they sink the hook and reel em in.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I don't buy gear to impress my friends. I buy gear that strikes my fancy. One of my favorite pieces in an extensive collection is the Schecter PT Elite I bought used for about $250. I wasn't even there to buy a guitar. I just saw it hanging on the wall, picked it up and plugged it in. I thought it sounded fantastic so I bought it. If the price tag had an extra 0 on it I still would have bought it because that's how much I liked it.

You can always tell who buys stuff to impress and who actually plays. It's the same with bikes. I bought a Honda VTX. It's my fourth bike and second Honda. I bought it because it had everything I wanted...a huge cc engine, liquid cooling, drive shaft, and no spoked wheels. Plus it is perfect for interstate travel. I could have bough any bike I wanted. I get the "but it isn't a harley" shtick every now and again. I bought a bike to RIDE. I didn't have to pay 3 times as much to buy into an IMAGE.

Gear is gear. You'll always have gear snobbery. No need to let it bother you though.

To me honestly, the line between buying for name and buying for quality is a fine one. Many of my activities involve gear. I am a rep for a ski line, and have the best there because I work for it. (the line, Elan, is not considered popular here, but I believe in it because of the construction and value). I waterski, and mountain bike, and Spud has already commented on bicyclist snobbery. My approach is to find something I like, that is a good enough quality that it will last me. My mtn bike is considered old among my friends, my waterski is a wedding gift from 94, my snow ski stuff is new and top of the line because I have access to that. So with guitars, I try to be honest with myself, and try to find something that I will like in the long run. A bang for the buck kind of thing. My mexican 60th is plenty of guitar for me for years to come, and if I get a humbucking guitar, it is likely to be an economical one. I am learning and shopping with that approach for my amp. I am painfully aware at what Robert and many others can do here with a Squier, First Act, or whatever, that puts me to shame at this point. Nice to be able to learn from you great guys here, about good economical gear, and good playing, along the way. R

Steve

P.S. I am don't own a motorcycle and don't want to offend any harley guys, but my ski school supervisor, who rides sport bikes, says about harleys that if he wanted a vibrator, he would have gone to a different store.

 

[Mark]

LMAO Quote:but my ski school supervisor, who rides sport bikes, says about harleys that if he wanted a vibrator, he would have gone to a different store.

There ya go a shining example of gear snobbery (Not you Steve the ski Instructor) Actually back in the day they were paint shakers my FLSTC is smooth as glass, balanced motor. I hear all kinds of stuff from people who ride other makes with their like comments, I chalk it up to ignorance and or gear snobbery. Whats funny of the bikes I have built and sold over the years it is the Harley's that have outlived and are now worth the price of multiple sportbikes. Again shining example of ignorance, and how it is not just in regards to music gear.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

LMAO Quote:but my ski school supervisor, who rides sport bikes, says about harleys that if he wanted a vibrator, he would have gone to a different store.

There ya go a shining example of gear snobbery (Not you Steve the ski Instructor) Actually back in the day they were paint shakers my FLSTC is smooth as glass, balanced motor. I hear all kinds of stuff from people who ride other makes with their like comments, I chalk it up to ignorance and or gear snobbery. Whats funny of the bikes I have built and sold over the years it is the Harley's that have outlived and are now worth the price of multiple sportbikes. Again shining example of ignorance, and how it is not just in regards to music gear.

Exxxxxaaaaaaaaactly!

 

[Moshe]

How about trucks? It always cracks me up to see that kid peeing on a chevy symbol or a ford symbol or a honda or "jap junk".

I think Ive owned all of them and find it hard to get excited or disgusted about any of these brand. A truck is a truck..

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

It's not just your bank account. I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford pretty much any piece of gear I desire, but I'm not out there seeking that piece for all of my friends to admire. I seek pieces that I can play and play at gigs.

I believe that most of these "cigar and cognac" gear snobs play very little, if at all. When they do, it's within the controlled confines of their houses - definitely not a bar full of rowdy drunks!

Yeah, but what if you have money & cannot play?

I say travel or find something you really believe in and make something happen. But, ya'know if I lucked into a big pile O cash I'd be buying some nice gear with *some* of it!! & I'd only be playing at home. It wouldn't make me any better, but it'd be hard to resist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps there are several types of gear snobs.

The first gets obsessed by all the details and nuance. More like a gear nerd. Once he knows, & believes that he can hear, the difference between 211 and 212 turns of wire around a 1956 alnico single coil magnet (I'm making this stuff up here, I have no clue how many turns there may be) he can't rest.

That is the result of the human mind & is no different than washing one's hands 14 times and spinning backwards before going upstairs. Except if he can put his obsession to use for others. Living with this has got to be hard on him & his friends and family. This is the well that scientists & techies come from.

There are the hoarders (er, I mean collectors) they move up the gear food chain and then *got* to have every exemplar of the particular item/s that caught their fancy. Again a human need that has gone a bit out of wack.
But who isn't more than a bit out of wack?

Actually, the hoarders can vary from the cat (er amph) lady type with a disheveled house, garage, bedroom, and attic overflowing with dusty amphs that are never used to the "my house is a museum and I am the curator" type.

There are the I'll buy me some cool types that do it primarily to impress others.


I think the real issue is the human mind & as the Stingster sez, there is no particular reason to be concerned with it. That is, of course, unless you have a tedious friend or relative prattling on about his collection & who won't shut up & jam with you.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

When someone buys a nice piece, it's always nice to see, and even to show off a bit. I can definitely see justifiable pride in the new axe, amp or whatever.

When someone thinks that his gear is all the shizzle and tries to ram this opinion down everyone else's throat, I raise a brow to a snob. I don't care what anyone else plays. Their gear choice works for them and that's all that counts. I'm never going to bag on another player just because he isn't using what I use.

Gear snobs abound in every endeavor, but some of them are just laughably rediculous.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

.....I seen those kind of posts on other forums too. I remember one guy who wanted advice for amps. He had had all the top of the line stuff - Mesa Boogie, Top Hat, Matchless, Bogner, Marshall, Fender, Dr. Z, Bad Cat, you name it - still he said he sold it all because nothing could give him the tone he was looking for. Unreal!

I think some people are more interested in buying and talking about guitar gear than playing it. I guess that might be a hobby in itself, but that's not for me - I want to play the stuff!....

I think Robert has it pegged right. I'd wager that a lot of the guys you run into online care more about what they have instead of being a decent player. It's ok to be starting out with either really great equipment or even inexpensive great equipment....as long as you can back up your words with action baybey! I'm glad none of you guys in this forum are posers. R

 

[Nelskie]

The Top of the Mountain

I'm glad none of you guys in this forum are posers

Except for me . . . !

Personally, I think the same holds true for those players we might classify as "snobs" (and let me tell you - I know a whole bunch of 'em!) But you know what, more power to them! As a matter of fact, they have opinions about us "bottom-feeders", too. Like how we'll fuss and fiddle over $99 dollar guitars, or that we actually play solid-state equipment (*can't wait to hear the back-lash from that statement!) Really, it's a two-way street. If you feel a "need" to differentiate yourself from those people, then consider this: being judgemental may end up closing the door to an opportunity to learn more about that of which awaits you on "the other side".

First, I've learned a TON of stuff from "gear snobs". Incredibly valuable and intersting stuff - from incredibly pretentious, insanely arrogant players. Sure, I've occasionally had to grovel for that biscuit. However, if the truth be known - - I'll tell you that it's a hilariously fun game to play. Sorta' like poker - - in that you can sometimes "bluff" your way to a big, fat pot - if ya' get my drift. Yep, those same guys who at first would scoff at my modeling set-ups and Valve Jr. rigs, would later be handing me a cold beer, telling me, "you got moxie there, Nelskie - I like that." Lo and behold, the doors to the Fortress of Solitude open wide.

The badge of "snobbery" can also be worn very proudly - and for those of you who've ever browsed the Fender Discussion Page (FDP), you know exactly what I'm saying. These guys aren't like the majority of pseudo gear know-it-alls (like myself) who peruse the web for their nuggets of erstwhile gear wisdom. These guys have gotten there the hard way, through double-digit years of trial-and-error, piles of hard-earned cash, and with the better part of their extensive knowledge base coming yeeeaaaars before the onset of the internet. I'd venture to say that they've walked more than a mile in a poor man's shoes, and have had some choice words to say about the self-annointed elite we're pointing our fingers at. And why is that? It's because they started out as one of us.

Lastly, those age-old questions: Does owning vintage, collectible, or expensive gear give them the "right" to look down upon others? Well, of course not! But it still happens. And does it give those players the right to flaunt their baubles so smugly in front of us? Again, the answer is no. But they still do. As much as we hate to admit it, our opinions make little difference in that world. My guess is that there's already been a few of those folks who have read this very thread, and have laughed themselves silly because of it. Sad . . . but true. We've added fuel to their fire.

Just about every player takes pride in the type / brand of gear they play. Not to mention the fact that nearly all of us aspire to play some type of gear that's well out of our reach. Or better yet, gear that we can actually justify owning. Coming to "terms" with that is different for everybody. For those who've aspired to, and then fulfilled that dream - - it may just be a way to revel in that accomplishment. Not saying that you have to act like a total douche-bag when you get there. But that there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling good about it. You should savor in some of that attention, and bask in that glow that comes along with it. I mean really - - imagine a world where '59 Les Pauls and Marshall Plexis were just guitars and amps . . . !

Folks, there's a reason why that gear sits on top of the mountain. And why people will go great lengths to get it. The answers to those questions, quite frankly, are yours for the taking.

As an anonymous Revlon super model once said, "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful."

 

[Tone2TheBone]

Nelskie - You're not a poser because you've posted a clip dude! Keep them coming. I wish you would continue what you started with the Fret Music idea you had too!

There's also such a thing as reverse gear snobbery. I've heard people talk about how they're so much better on their such and such guitar than someone else is on their vintage '64 Stratocaster etc. Also used to hear that a lot on the river when I'd go fly fishing. "Oh I can outcast that guy using the Sage with my Cabela's rod". Talk about snobs man...although I am guilty of the fly rod snobbery but not in reverse.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Very well put, Nelskie!

As a "little guy", I try hard to give no creedence to the hardcore snobs. I'm very happy with what I own and play.

I think that hardcore snobbery speaks volumes about the person projecting it. If they have to attack other's gear to further their own good feelings and self righteousness, then there are larger underlying issues there beyond gear.

In the mean time, I'll just be out there playing my butt off and having a good time.

 

[Nelskie]

Thanks Spanky. I guess I found myself "peeking" over at the other side of the fence, and thought the view might spark some interesting discussion.

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm guilty of gear-snobbery in just about every way, shape, and form that it exists. I've hacked those playing lesser, ridiculed those with better, and scoffed at players who've done less with more. If you're a guitar player, scratch that - - an honest guitar player, it's all part of the gig. Not that I seek to do it, or purposely try to make others feel bad - - it's almost an unconscious reaction. I mean, you don't just play for (23) years, and not devlop some habit of doing it. Yes, there are those who live for it, even seek it. I'm not one of those people. It just happens.

Yet in that same light, I've used it to serve and benefit my own endeavors - whether it be for inspiration, to advance my technical skills, or to justify my reckless penchant for buying gear. So, by and large, gear snobbery has been a HUGE factor in my evolution as a guitar player. Whether it's right or wrong to fess up to it - - well, that's another matter open to debate.

We all have that little devil and little angel resting on our shoulders, constantly striving to tug that rope to their side of the argument. The way we balance that, even use it to our advantage, is really what merits discussion. For instance, I went out to see a band last weekend, and they played an absolutely insane version of Metallica's cover Whiskey In The Jar. Being a purist of sorts, I prefer the Thin Lizzy version of the song, and made sure that I told my friend and fellow player that the guitar player "should" be able to crush that song with the fantastic Charvel Custom and Vetta II head / 4x12 rig he was using. Bottom line - he's on stage, and I'm paying a $3 cover to drink cheap tap beer, sit in a very uncomfortable chair, and listen to him play it. Who gets the last laugh? He does, of course. But the next day, I'm learning the Lizzy version of the song on my Epi Les Paul, and pushing it through my PODxt Plexi Model and Tech 21 amp. Now I'm the beneficiary (*unless you take into account the incredibly hot blonde he went home with after the gig - which then makes me a two-time loser! )

To that, I pose the question: Is there such thing as a good gear snob?

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Good points Nelskie. I was not very well spoken in my reply last night, and you touched on some things I had wanted to. Without going over it all again, I think there is a difference between buying something, whether it is a nice expensive piece, a middle of the road piece that you reseached the heck out of, or a cheap piece with a bunch of punk rock stickers on it, because it works for you, and buying something essentially because you are rooting for that brand, like you would a football team. Because I am analytical by nature, I personally tend to research the heck out of any gear purchase. I certainly have peppered you guys with questions on the subject. I do not care for decisions based on herd mentality. The Calvin urinating on the "insert car brand" sticker is a good example. I am a huge Calvin and Hobbes fan and do not like Calvin being portrayed in that way.


Oh, and because I was raised Catholic, I will confess that if I had enough dough to just go out and buy a Martin HD-28, without affecting the grocery budget, I might just go do it.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Thanks Spanky. I guess I found myself "peeking" over at the other side of the fence, and thought the view might spark some interesting discussion.

I had to do a double take there Nelsk! I read *peeing* over the fence!

To that, I pose the question: Is there such thing as a good gear snob?

Well of course there is, just as there is such thing as a good bottom feeder.

And speaking from a bottom feeder's point of view the gear snobs (besides scarfing up all the vintage gear) actually drive the guitar business in such a way that decent gear at reasonable prices drifts to the bottom of the ocean to be feed upon by baby catfish & bulbous lantern-eyed demon fish like myself.

 

[Hogfullofblues]

We are a prideful and competitive species by nature. Who hasn't gotten a glow from a compliment or envious stare? Or, have you ever purchased something, brought it home and put it away, but then have to peek at it and admire it again before bed time? Tell your friends about it? Show it off? I have, but of course, in a humble way (I hope).
But I think the true snob is somehow driven to these feelings even to the point of making the purchase just for that purpose. And if the desired result is not forthcoming, will be oh so obvious right up to rubbing others noses in it if need be.
So the little devil makes me snobby, but the little angel keeps me from being a snob (again, I hope). Welcome back, Nels!

 

[Spudman]

Oh, and because I was raised Catholic, I will confess that if I had enough dough to just go out and buy a Martin HD-28, without affecting the grocery budget, I might just go do it.

Nice confession my son. Say 15 Hail Mary's and go to the store with your credit card and get that Martin. *insert* (hey,how come we don't have a devil horned smiley?)


Then come back next week. I'll hear the new confession.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I am a huge Calvin and Hobbes fan and do not like Calvin being portrayed in that way.

I love Clavin & Hobbes. Those peeing stickers completely miss the vibe, but they don't really bother me.

Oh, and because I was raised Catholic, I will confess that if I had enough dough to just go out and buy a Martin HD-28, without affecting the grocery budget, I might just go do it.

Howz'about a Martin D-100?

 

[oldguy]

Well,
"My Dad can beat up your Dad"
"My dog's bigger than your dog"
kinda loses it's meaning as you mature.
But I don't know many players with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi who can't tear it up .

 

[Spudman]

Well I have a Peavey Mace head so neener neener.