Getting down to bassics

[marnold]

Part 1: The Beginning

I try to take Tuesday as a day off. This week, it actually happened! When I went to pick up the kids, I went up to a music shoppe (OK, the music shoppe) in Marinette and played a couple of basses. Their selection isn't huge, but decent nonetheless. I played a new MIA Fender Jazz, a used MIM Fender Precision, a Schecter Stilleto Elite-4, and a Peavey Grind. The last three were all around the $350-375 mark. The Jazz was > $1000.

My main goal was to gauge necks. To my surprise, the difference between a P-bass and J-bass neck at the nut was negligible. The difference came in about the 12th-14th fret where the Precision neck was noticeably wider. The Schecter and Peavey had necks that were more like the Jazz. The only "issue" I'd have with the P-bass neck would be with chord stuff high on the neck. Not a deal-breaker by any means.

As far as pure unplugged tone goes, I liked the Jazz the best in a very close race. It certainly wasn't better enough to justify paying 3x more. Unfortunately, it seemed to be the worst balanced of all the basses, exhibiting a bit of neck-dive. That's a little odd since the Jazz is supposed to have a bigger body with skinnier neck and the sticker trumpeted low-mass tuners.

One thing that surprised me is how I preferred the playability of the more traditional Fender designs. The issue I had with the Peavey and Schecter is that they both had soapbar pickups with 24 fret necks. That means that there is precious little room between the "neck" pickup and the neck itself. That's usually the space where you dig in for popping, etc. That's not necessarily the end of the world, especially since I'd kind of like a non-traditional body. The Peavey's pickups were also set very high, so while I was playing I was continually hitting my fingers against them. That's something that could be easily remedied. The Schecter had EMG HZs in it which I'm not a huge fan of.

Much to my surprise, my little sawn-off fingers were doing a reasonably good job of playing--especially since I've never practiced that way for an extended period of time since my injury. It was rather fun, actually.

 

[marnold]

Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

In an ideal world, I'd like to get a Peavey Zodiac BXP in Butterscotch. It's selling for $379. I prefer the P and J pickup combo, the maple neck, and the slightly non-traditional stylings. The problem is that if I could put the money together for this, I certainly wouldn't have enough to get even a decent amph, to say nothing of a good one.

Then there's also the Peavey Zodiac Bass Pack that has a cheaper version of the Zodiac bass with a cheap Peavey amph. It's selling for $299. My basic needs would be covered. The amph is serviceable, but that's about all one can say. The bass, while cool looking, is P-only and no maple fretboard. The shop in Marinette said they would be getting these in for the Christmas rush.

There are several SX basses from Rondo that caught my eye. All of them are pretty inexpensive and might allow for a bit more money towards an amph.
SX SPJ Ash for $159. I've been looking at this one a long time. The odd thing is that it has a Jazz body and a Precision neck, which is usually to opposite of the way P/J basses tend to be.

SX SJB-75 B MRD also for $159. I really like the Geddy-esque maple board with black block markers. It is a pure Jazz bass though--no P/J.

SX BG-180TM BK for $139. I like the body style and it has the P/J pickups. Not a fan of the photo finish, especially not in black. The 24 fret fretboard leaves little room between the P pickup and the neck.

SX SPB-75 NA for $149. This one is a pure P-bass, but it has that sweet blocked neck.

I've often been told that it's better to spend more money on an amp than on an instrument. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns on both of those. The advantage of SX is price and higher quality body woods. I'd be able to get a better amp. The issue is that I'd be buying one sight-unseen. I know that the guys on the TalkBass forums tend to rave about them.

I'm sure someone will suggest getting something used, but it is extremely difficult to find anything used in good shape for a good price in this area. What good stuff there is is marked up very high. I saw a used SX for sale in one store for about $70 more than Rondo is selling them for new.

 

[marnold]

Part 3: Reality Bites

I probably won't be able to do anything about this until some point between Christmas and my birthday in early February. Even then, this is all contingent on whether or not my 200K+ mile car needs any unforeseen repairs, etc. Our resident bassists don't seem to be checking in as frequently as they used to. If anyone has any input on these instruments or the instrument-vs.-amph debate, I'd be thrilled to hear them.

 

[Katastrophe]

For the short time that I played bass, I either went direct into the PA, or played through a 70s era Fender solid state Bassman.

The Fender got a very tight, punky sort of sound that I really liked. Not boomy at all. Direct into the PA was bad. The tone was mushy and not very well defined.

Looks wise, I like the Zodiac the best. I played on an entry level Yamaha that was admittedly cheap, but had a great tone, and the neck was entirely flamed maple. It had a shorter scale, so it felt more "guitar like," and I enjoyed playing it.

The Yamaha looked like this, but was a royal blue color: http://www.yamaha.com/guitars/produ...CTID%253D600090%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT,00.html

 

[wingsdad]

EDITED: to remove pics from this dumb post of mine...talking out of your price range and of a bass w/o maple board...

I had a mid-70's P-Bass for about 10 years and it served me well. I sold it when my basswork days were done, and probably shouldn't have.

Fender made a 'hybrid' called the JP-90 for about 3 years (89-91 or so). Made in USA (Corona, CA), it has a J-Bass neck, P-Bass pup for neck and J-Bass pup at the bridge. It was only made in 3 colors: black, white or red. This pup combo became a popular one to imitate, and still is. Poplar body....very light. I'd found one used a few years back for $350 and only sold it a few months ago (for $450) to get my Hofner Icon B-Bass.

As the original and timeless classic solid-body bass designs, there certainly are enuff P-Bass, J-Bass and JP-90 clones out there, used ones are plentiful so the market price is low, and aftermarket pickups by Duncan are really good to soup up a cheapo.

 

[thearabianmage]

My advice: what-ever you decide to get, make sure it's 'the one.' If you get that Peavey that you've got your eye on, then you know you've got it and you don't have to worry about getting a new bass - at least for a while. If you decide to get an amph then get a bad-boy because then you know you've got that bad-boy waiting to be played, and you won't have to worry about the amph situation. Then, when the time is right, you can get the other part and you are set - you will have the bass and amph you had your eyes on. It's not immediate by any means, but in the long run it is much better.

For example - if you forked out for that Peavey package, you'll immediately be able to play bass through and amp, but you know that someday you are gonna want a better Peavey and a better amp, which means that you would have effectively wasted that money which could have gone to part of the cost of one of your GAS items. See?

Just my 2c. Do what you think is best.

Joe

 

[marnold]

There's wisdom in that, Joe. I really like that Peavey. I've always been partial to Peavey basses, especially the necks. I do want to "hit a home run" with this one since I'd like this to be my bass for all eternity. It's got what I want with the P/J pickups and maple fretboard. I really like the butterscotch with black pickguard pseudo-'51 look. The bridge looks to be higher quality than the typical SX or MIM.

I would guess that I'd be able to run it through either my Chorus Factory or Expression Factory and use the cab modeling to play it through headphones until I could swing for a decent amp.

 

[Duff]

Basics

Just some amateurish ideas but based upon a lot of experience buying gear and playing and I'm into tone a lot.

I was looking for a P bass cheap. Passed up a new Squire Affinity for 130 at a GC sale and got a nice strat instead, spent more. Passing up the affinity I later regretted because I still had no bass.

I looked around and a guy at a music store/band member that I know had a used '04 affinity P bass in great shape, black that I got for 98 dollars, super great almost mint shape. Plan on replacing the pups with some GFS or SDs. For now it's really great, believe it or not. Not like my Schecter stiletto five elite though. My Schecter is awesome, best sounding bass I've ever played. Sustains for extreme periods of time and coupled with my amps it sounds awesome; even with my small portable amp.

I recently picked up one of the new Marshall MB30, thirty watt practice amps with ten inch speaker, two channels clean and drive, plus a switchable manually adjustable compression control section, eq, three voice section with a voice control knob in addition to the selector switch, boost switch, lots of connectivity. 189 new at a local store using MF price matching and a coupon I had from GC that they matched. Awesome practice amp.

Marshall now has the 450 watt four by ten pro version of the MB series out, same control panel plus more and a fairly big price tag.

You would like my Marshall thirty watt new design amp probably. It handles a five string without distorting, a rarity for small amps by the way. People need to know that. Five strings require special amps that can handle the B string or they sound really really bad. The Marshall handled it with gracefull beauty.

Since then, last week actually, I picked up a new affinity Jazz bass from GC for 179. Super nice item in all respects; beautiful straight grained neck like velvet, rosewood board, great sounding stock pickups amazingly, maybe amps, great controls and tone control. You get a lot more variety of tone out of the Jazz bass. Supposedly those combined PJ basses are not the same. They don't have two J pickups which makes a HUGE difference and they have a different type of tone arrangement; plus I heard the J pickup when turned off sucks tone from the P pups. Seemingly best of both worlds. Heard that one before? Same story. I'd get one or the other.

Also, just me, I used to not like Squires but they are putting out some awesome stuff now. Importantly, Squires fit standard Fender replacement parts to a huge extent. Pickguards and stuff align almost perfectly as well as the locking tuners . When I built my "Black Pearl" affinity free strat I put on a black pearl pickguard and SD high quality pups and Fender locking tuners. Everything went together with little problem and that guitar kicks a&&, big time. Hot rail in the neck, '59 in the mid, and JB Jr in the bridge: unbelievable and its an affinity!

You could get a used affinity bass or a P bass of your choice and put in some GFS hot P pickups or SD hot pups and have an awesome sounding guitar. Maybe have to put a few dollars into a pot or so. This would yield tone city. Get a decent amp and you could be hammering it out for three hundred or less. Amazing what a good set of pups can do to a guitar, plus a few other inexpensive mods. Got to start with a good sounding and playing instrument that feels "right" first though. Brand and price is not as important as it being the "right" bass I don't think.

I didn't think I wanted another J bass. I gave my old Fender J bass to my son. The affinity sounds real good, I'm satisfied but I have a Zoom B2.1u pedal too. But without the pedal it sounds great thru either amp. The pedal just smooths things out, and the whole lineup of things. I like the way I can get a cool smooth bassy low end that is round and full and loud without biting, but you can get it to bite easily, bite real hard. You can pop it real good on the bottom of the neck or between the two J pups or even just above the bridge. Just practice the technique and you'll find a good place on any bass you choose, just might have to replace the pups with some hot ones.

You can do this cheap and get some super results; just make it a goal. You'll be glad. I'll post some pictures when I'm done modding my P bass. I already have a couple ideas for it. Like you it's a matter of cash. I'll work it in though. Probably get the vintage aged light amberish white pearl pickguard but the Fender on I like is 34 dollars but really nice. Bet it would look great against that glossy black body. Then worry about the pups. Maybe try the hot GFS P pups for 32. Tuners are great on that used bass.

Good luck in your quest. I like the Peavey's too and might have gotten one but the used ones were gone by the time I got the cash to get one.

I have three SX guitars that are great, two strats and a special deal; a Gibson LP Special copy with two black P 90 pups, done in a beautiful beautiful antique sunburst, all mahogany including set mahogany neck for 139 new from Rondo. The strats play great, especially the '62 and it's stock. That would be nice with some hot rodded pups, guaranteed.

The J bass looks too old school, possibly for you, I don't know, but I'll tell you it sounds great and has more tonal variety by far than the P bass; but the P bass is cool and I have ALWAYS for thirty years wanted a P bass. I'm lucky enough to have one and it will be really nice when I get thru with it, no buzz, beautiful neck, near mint shape and destined to be a great instrument, if not worth anything to speak of, but it'll be worth something to me. I ain't building it for the next guy. No way.

You are right. Get the "right" bass regardless of brand, try to keep it cheap and get the best amp you can afford. For a four string you won't have to spend two hundred to get a good practice amp with great tone. Those Acoustic twenty watt ones MF is selling are supposed to sound good and they have been selling for as low as 129 and are twenty watts twelve inch speaker. Supposed to be fairly loud for their class. I can see why with that twelve in sensitive speaker.

Just some ideas,

Duff

PS You could get one of those ESP LTD Explorer four string basses. They are cool. So are those reverse Epi Tbird fours. See them for around 150 on clearance at MF. I think they look super great. My son has a Goth one and likes it. Humbuckers. Like Peavey, them ESP LTDs are secrets that a lot of people overlook, probably because they are around the same price as the competition.

 

[marnold]

Thanks for the comments, Duff.

The "problem" I've heard with P/J basses is that while the P pickup will cancel it's own hum, the J will not. Also the P tends to have more output and is in a "louder" position on top of it all. I've played a couple of them and liked the tonal variety I could get.

I've heard good things about Acoustic amps too, I just can't remember where now.

I like the looks of ESPs too, especially the F series. It's a more traditional body style except it's pointy!

 

[Duff]

Basics

Yes the F series is pointy and the inexpensive one is less than 200.

I like the EC ones that look like Les Pauls.

I also like the other modern styled ones with the big top horn like the schecters. MF has a PJ one of those for under 200 and another style too I think. The least expensive F type isn't much more.

I have nothing to do with MF by the way. It's just a reference point most of us can relate to for prices. GC and all the other big places have the same deal basically. One of my local stores does price matching so I can play the stuff there and buy there if they have what I want but I don't want to wait for them to order stuff in which can take weeks.

Duff

 

[KrisH]

The SX basses are good enough for what they are. I wanted to experiment with a six string fretless, and bought one of the "Douglas" ones from Rondo, supposed to be a little better quality than the SX. It is solidly built, but needed a lot of adjustment. And there was a small knothole in the fingerboard! But seeing as how the blemish wasn't in a critical position, and I only paid $139 for it, I didn't complain. It sounds decent, and the pickups have plenty of power, and I've taken it to practice a few times, for special purposes. I prefer my other basses on a regular basis though -- but they cost more, too. So I guess that says something.

As for bass v. amp: my amp cost nowhere near what my basses did. It's a Behringer 300 watt keyboard amp, which gives clean reproduction, and I also use a Digitech pedal board that has numerous amp emulations, so I can reproduce an Ashdown, Marshall, Ampeg SVT (my favorite), etc. I used this setup last night in a medium sized hall, and it was more than loud enough and punchy enough to carry through the band without being muddy. On the other hand, the bassist for the other band on the bill had a no-name jazz copy running through a small Markbass amp into a 1X15 Mesa reflex cabinet, and his sound was impressive, too.

For me, the bass is more important, because that's what you have to condition your hands and fingers to work, and build a symbiotic physical relationship with. Amps can always be upgraded, and I suspect I will be doing that sometime in the future. But I don't know that I could do any better than with my main basses now.

 

[Duff]

Basics

Bass amp choice is very individualized, as I'm sure Marnold knows.

The choice to use a wide range keyboard amp is something I didn't think about. Then, obviously, you get your models off the multipedal.

I have two specially designed moderately expensive dedicated bass amps. They have amps in them that are designed to work within specific bass related parameters and have some special effects that enhance specific bass qualities. They are not like the magnificent and expensive bass amps that you can get. My son has a SWR Workingpro 15 that has all sorts of clipping and control over the bass sound, without even using a pedal. My son dosen't use pedals much for bass.

Using an amp other than a specifically designed bass amp to play bass is an idea that requires quite a bit of knowledge of basses and amps, especially if you are going to play a 5 string bass. The speakers have certain limitations and parameters that they are designed to work best in. Using a bass thru a guitar amp, for instance is not a good idea, but people do it for a long time. I wouldn't do it with my Peavey Delta Blues, ever. The idea of using a keyboard amp might not be a bad idea, I don't know what parameters the speaker and amp are designed for. Seemingly it might not be a destructive idea because a lot of keyboards imitate bass guitars; but do they do it with the same frequencies and amplitudes and with the same force, measured at the speaker? Would the signal characteristics at the amp input from a bass guitar be the same as those from a keyboard? I don't know this and wouldn't know if the sound would be different. I would assume that the sound would be different from a keyboard amp than thru a bass amp.

I don't think there would be a better solution than a decent bass amp rig.

Duffy

 

[KrisH]

You're right, Duffy, the sound is completely different in a keyboard amp, when played straight in. The response is good, with a 15" speaker and a HF horn, shaped with a 9 band equalizer. But by itself, it adds no coloring to the instrument. The modeler is necessary (and the input needs to be hotter). On the other hand, I can play my guitars through the setup too, just by selecting different amp models. It's a relatively inexpensive and portable compromise solution, for now.

When I was using dedicated setups, my favorite was using a 1970s-era Marshall 100 watt lead amp plugged into a Sunn 215RH cabinet (2 15" speakers in a rear loaded reflex horn). Thunderous! But a real pain to move around.

 

[Duff]

Kris

That Marshall sounds like it was awesome but I can understand about the weight. My Fender Rumble one hundred is too heavy to move around easily; so I got the new design Marshall MB thirty practice amp and it is awesome, even with the five string.

Marshall has release the four hundred and fifty watt pro MB series bass amp with four tens in it and a horn. Clean and drive channels and voices and lots of controls. Has to be awesome, based upon my little thirty watt MB.

That keyboard amp sounds decent. I was thinking of getting one for my acoustic guitar once but got a Crate Gunnison that is really neat and sounds way better than playing directly into my PA but I do have an acoustic modelling pedal that I could try in front of the PA and see how that sounds.

I like those multi pedals and use one most of the time but have some great individual pedals, like my Boss Tremolo pedal, it has sounds that are awesome if you like nice slow shallow tremolo, kind of like a Leslie rotating horn in that awesome speaker. I'm even using a Zoom B2.1u with my Marshall amp. Don't really need to because the amp sounds great straight up but I like the variety of sounds I can get and some of the really smooth deep bass tones and incredible sustain for slow bass lines, like "Saint James Infirmary".

Great ideas Kris.

Duffy

 

[marnold]

When the time comes, I'll have to look into one of those Marshalls. I know that a local shop carries them and I'd prefer to buy from him if I could. We shall see.

 

[marnold]

Another interesting bass is this Squier Vintage Modified Jazz. I saw one in a GC once but for some reason I didn't play it. I remember looking at it, thinking it looked pretty sharp, and being surprised it wasn't a regular Fender. I don't know what "soft maple" means for the body, other than it might weigh a ton. I was surprised to hear that the neck has a satin finish on the neck, which is almost unheard of for a maple fretboard bass.

Here's a review from our favorite reviewers: but no taking it out of the box or looking at the registration card!

 

[marnold]

Crap, crap, crap. Why do I look at eBay? Why, I ask you? I saw a new/demo Spector Performer for an absolute song. I've always loved that Spector body style. Aaaaaugh!

 

[player]

for what its worth my bands former Bass player bought a Fender Jazz Bass the same time I bought my Coronado.doubt he would part with it unless the price was right yep in 66

 

[marnold]

Hee hee! Check this thread.