Getting static on direct recordings...

[Rockermann]

Has anyone ran into anything like this?

Recently, and it's gotten worse as time has progressed, I'm getting static in my wav files when recording. It happens when I'm recording digitally/direct via the SPDIF input on my audio card or when I'm recording analog using a mic and mixer for vocals. The only thing in common with those two chains are the soundcard (and my DAW obviously).

At this time, I'm using a M-Audio Delta 66 (with a breakout box). I was using a M-Audio Audiophile 2496 with the same issues. The problem use to be sporadic, but has becoming more troublesome. The sound files (wavs) can be perfectly clean and then static will appear at different parts throughout and then even go away later in the file.

I'm using Audition 3.01 on a Dell Studio XPS 9000, Intel Core i7-920 processor (8MB L3 Cache 2.66GHz) with 9GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz. I get the static on the initial recording before any other processing is applied.

I'm thinking some sort of electrical interference? Nothing has changed in my environment, but it's the only thing I can think of. I'm going to tear apart my setup tonight and rewire everything trying to separate as much of the signal cabling from the electrical stuff as possible. I'm also going to add a cheap power conditioner I have laying around for my 110 AC devices.

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[deeaa]

We've been discussing this for long since already, never really found the answer...maybe this time someone has good ideas. Well I might as well report what we've discussed so far to avoid much overlapping.

First I might add that the static is not really like soft analog 'hiss' static but pretty sharp, slightly crackling static/noise that to me sounds very digital - isn't that how it sounds, Steve? And you've also changed the computer in between too - well pretty much everything, and it still does it.

To me it very much sounds like a bad dithering/sampling issue, even if I don't see where could it originate from; still, very much what you can get when you mix two slightly different digital feeds, or use a wrong sampling rate/really bad or overlapping conversion, or something similar. I had something like that when I was using two soundcards on the same project without a word clock master, because the cards would lose their sync ever so slightly and after a while would start to crackle/get digital errors.

But it also occurs when you record analog, doesn't it? That's the really baffling issue. BTW is your GT-10 always connected via Spdif - maybe it's acting as a word clock master? Is there also USB connection between them? Which is the timing master when you use it, the Boss or the DAW?

Anyway, the only things I can suggest any more are: does it occur when you're recording purely analog, i.e. analog signal directly to the soundcard with ALL other lines physically disconnected? If not, then it HAS to be a digital sampling/timing issue. Those aren't very rare. For instance I'd love to use my DBX channel strip digital output directly, but whenever I turn it on, I have to EVERY time manually set it to correct sample rate, bit depth, output mode and dither mode, otherwise it won't work/just gives artefacts to sound, and it's too much of a hassle so I rather just use analog in.

If it happens even when you've eliminated anything digital from the pre-chain, then all I can suggest is get an external soundcard. And something other than M-Audio this time (I had an external M-Audio 4-channel card a while back though, it was pretty good).

Your machine is quite up to specs too...BTW does it do that in another DAW system as well? I get very similar static in Cubase when I've got a project with like half a dozen Amplitube plugins processing at once and/or lots of tracks - the computer CPU just can't keep up with so much processing and the audio starts to crackle ugly. But that is easily detectible why it happens, because the 'CPU load' mater in cubase flashes red like crazy at that time already. With the 32bit system I could hardly run a few instances without crackles, the 64 is much better in that respect. I can now run insane amounts of plugins no problem. But yours is 64 and quite powerful.

 

[Rockermann]

Dee...

Thanks for reviewing everything in detail. You pretty much covered everything. Yes, it's been happening on two different computers, with two different sound cards. It's gotten worse recently though. It used to be an occasional thing, now it's quite often.

In the wav itself, the static/popping will stop when the input stops. If I'm singing or playing as soon as I stop, the static disappears. There is never any static when there is 'dead air' on the recorded wav.

I've always synced the audio card with the Boss GT-10 when recording. If I set it to 'internal' (meaning the PC clock) I get blank recordings. I did just for the heck of it try recoding vocals via mic/analog with it synced to the internal clock and still got the static.

My sample rate on the card is set to 44100 and 256 samples.

I also rebuilt my rig this morning taking great care to separate electrical cables from signal cables wherever possible. That hasn't helped.

 

[Rockermann]

Here's a example of what's happening. Please ignore the sloppy playing. I was worried about the static and not what I was playing.

 

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Here's a example of what's happening. Please ignore the sloppy playing. I was worried about the static and not what I was playing.

Have you checked to see if there are any firmware/software updates to the equipment you are using?

Cheers.

 

[Rockermann]

Have you checked to see if there are any firmware/software updates to the equipment you are using?

Funny you should mention that. Yes, I had the latest drivers etc. But, apparently, that is the problem. After spending a few hours on the M-Audio forums yesterday, I see my problem is a common one. There are recommendations to turn off CPU throttling in the BIOS (mine doesn't have that feature) and disabling other devices. I found a guy who has the exact same computer as mine, has the same static (he posted a clip) and was able to fix the problem by using an older driver from M-Audio. One from 2005 actually. :O

The only problem for me is that Windows 7 will not allow me to install this driver. I've used the compatibility troubleshooter and everything else I know, but it's just too old. So... my new Delta 66 is going back. I'm going with something from someone else that can write the appropriate drivers. I'm considering a PreSonus Firebox, but I still have some research to do.

I'm pretty confident the driver IS the problem so I"m looking forward to getting the problem solved with a new interface.

 

[marnold]

I'm pretty confident the driver IS the problem so I"m looking forward to getting the problem solved with a new interface.

I hope that's the case. I've never recorded anyway except from amp to soundcard via Audacity so I couldn't really offer any other advice. Didn't stop me from posting, though

 

[Rockermann]

Thanks, marnold.. but unfortunately, my solution didn't help much. I went out and purchased a Presonus Firestudio Mobile and now I'm having even worse problems with distortion/static. I've got a case submitted to their support. I hope I can get something figured out with them. This is becoming extremely frustrating.

 

[deeaa]

It's getting to be that pretty much the only thing you haven't changed yet is the DAW software...

 

[deeaa]

I understood the static comes also when recording direct to, say, mic in of the soundcard? And have you tried with different DAW software? How about non multitracker softs?

What I would do at this point is install a fresh multitracker, like Reaper, Krystal, etc. and then check I have the right ASIO drivers set and latency at not too tight, aim for something like 8 ms or so, and then ONLY attach a microphone and do test recordings. If no static, proceed to other softward and then add more gadgets in between...but if there is static even with nothing attached and direct to mic input...then it must be hardware level. You are using Presonus ASIO full duplex drivers I presume and fully de-installed all old multimedia drivers?

 

[Rockermann]

It's not the DAW software. The same problems happen when I'm using Windows Recorder. And with the Firestudio handling the output audio, it scrambles regular Window's sounds, Winamp playback, etc. It'll come and go, but when it shows up, it's BAD.

I tried using the Firestudio for input and the M-Audio for output, but that didn't work either.

I hope Presonus's tech support will be helpful. But I'm not overly confident.

EDIT... thinking back, I might not have uninstalled the M-Audio drivers. I might have just disabled it/them before installing the Presonus. I can try removing all that tonight, but I doubt it will make a difference.

 

[Spudman]

Have you messed with your buffer size? That can make a difference. Increase it so that you aren't accessing the hard drive all the time.

 

[Rockermann]

Yup... I've gone all the way up to 1024 on the buffer. Same results.

 

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Yup... I've gone all the way up to 1024 on the buffer. Same results.

So, as I understand, the problem is a compatability problem with the drivers for the recording software/hardware and Win-7? If that is the case, don't rule out the sound card manufacturer or the Microsoft Knowledge Base for any possible solutions. Could be a problem that has been fixed within Win-7 and MS just has not thought the fix is important enough to put it in the auto-update, but will release it later in a Service Pack. Normally, they are available on the MS web site by themselves, but you have to go looking for them. Lots and lot of good solutions to problems in the MS KB, just gotta put the right search terms in (read: trial and error) the search box.

Cheers!

 

[deeaa]

I don't think so because it was also on Xp unless I'm mistaken and several cards and computers.

Steve, what does the 'CPU load' bar show in Cubase, does it move when this static occurs? What does DPC latency checker show?

I still think it's a digital noise, so because it ain't the OS, or the DAW, or the card or computer, the only thing left is some setting on the motherboard/software system that causes holdups and breaks in data stream. Hard to figure out what exactly...

What I always make sure are:


- Test the http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml for any weird interrupts
- Make sure ALL the latest motherboard drivers are installed, including for sure any mobo drivers, display drivers etc. NEVER install any of the OEM drivers that come with computers, disregard any CD's that ship with the computer and just install the latest from the chipset manufacturer site (this was all-important especially in Pentium era w/all those PIIX drivers etc...)
- Kill all viruskiller tasks, system maintenance scheduling, indexing service, UAC, etc. and too many windows effects. At least Avast! works fine with audio systems, some viruskillers are horrible with DAWs.
- Remove all unneeded LPT and serial ports from BIOS (disable)
- Disable all other unnecessary CPU thermal adjustment etc. throttling, power saving etc. as well as any onboard audio/video/network devices not being used - anything you don't absolutely need.
- Make sure the harddisks used for DAW are separate from the OS harddisk, and only use fastest possible drives (32mb cache SATA2 7200 or better; forget trying to run the OS from the same, perhaps slow drive)
- Make sure the windows audio works as well with the card - not necessarily at the same time as ASIO drivers but still.
- Finally make sure you're using the right ASIO driver with large enough buffer and correct, card-supported sampling rate which preferably also is the same in system settings in cntrl panel, also make sure preload buffer is high enough even if it causes playback to start with a slight delay
- forget about digital connections until you get the analog side working 100% hassle-free. (I never got the digital working well with my DBX preamp for instance, although there is no reason it shouldn't)

 

[deeaa]

Double-checking the above - you don't have some system restore thingy going on in the machine all the while? Was it a clean OEM windows install with no extras, or some mangled up sh*t the manufacturer pre-installed? All and every windowsupdate offer loaded?

 

[Rockermann]

Thanks, guys for all the suggestions. I've checked and rechecked just about all of that. Latest drivers all around. Latest updates. DAW drives are separate from the OS etc... I'll keep on looking at all of this, but...

I think I made progress last night with the PreSonus FireStudio. I called support and they emailed me a tool to run on my system that would look for incompatible devices, and sure enough, the on board firewire card was using a generic chipset that the PreSonus was not compatible with. So, I luckily had a extra FW card and I tossed that in the box, ran the tool again and it's compatible.

However, I'm still having issues. Now, instead of having crackling sound, I have NO Windows sounds. The PreSonus is selected as the default audio card in Windows etc., but I get nothing. But, if I talk into the mic that's in input 1 or play the keyboard in input 3, it comes through the PreSonus and through my monitors/speakers. So.. I'm REAL close I think. There is just a setting or something I'm missing to get the playback audio to work. I emailed support with the latest details. Hopefully, they'll get back with an answer, or I'll just call them again later today.

Just for informational purposes, the M-Audio card is completely out of the system now. I have one audio card... the PreSonus.

So close, but yet so far...

 

[deeaa]

Thanks, guys for all the suggestions. I've checked and rechecked just about all of that. Latest drivers all around. Latest updates. DAW drives are separate from the OS etc... I'll keep on looking at all of this, but...

I think I made progress last night with the PreSonus FireStudio. I called support and they emailed me a tool to run on my system that would look for incompatible devices, and sure enough, the on board firewire card was using a generic chipset that the PreSonus was not compatible with. So, I luckily had a extra FW card and I tossed that in the box, ran the tool again and it's compatible.

However, I'm still having issues. Now, instead of having crackling sound, I have NO Windows sounds. The PreSonus is selected as the default audio card in Windows etc., but I get nothing. But, if I talk into the mic that's in input 1 or play the keyboard in input 3, it comes through the PreSonus and through my monitors/speakers. So.. I'm REAL close I think. There is just a setting or something I'm missing to get the playback audio to work. I emailed support with the latest details. Hopefully, they'll get back with an answer, or I'll just call them again later today.

Just for informational purposes, the M-Audio card is completely out of the system now. I have one audio card... the PreSonus.

So close, but yet so far...

But it works in ASIO? That's what happened w/my Presonus and 64bit drivers...no windows audio whatsoever, although it showed there fine BUT it worked 100% in ASIO and any sound program.

It was only like a month or so back that they released a new w7 driver for the card family I have (Firepod) and problem was solved.

And yeah, sometimes Firewire etc. can be a problem...I had clean forgotten, I also have 2 FW controllers on my motherboard and only one of them is fully compliant with all my FW hardware.

 

[Rockermann]

But it works in ASIO?...

No, actually not. If I go into Audition and setup the hardware to use the PreSonus for both input and output, using the PreSonus ASIO Drivers, I still get no sound and then it actually freezes the software up when I try to playback or record. I'm still communicating with support... I hope we find something.

 

[Rockermann]

Just an update... didn't get much further with support last night. They gave me an article about tweaking Windows 7 for audio use, blah blah blah. I had done all of that before.

I did read and post some in the PreSonus tech support forums and maybe on to something. According to one person over three, the TI (Texas Instruments) chipset for firewire is THE BEST for use in Windows 7 64 bit. Looks like I might be out to buy another FW card. :|

 

[Rockermann]

SOLVED!

The TI chipset was the answer. However, even after getting the firewire card with the TI chipset, it didn't install correctly the first time and I didn't get an IRQ assigned to the card. It looked fine in device manager, no exclamation mark and it said it was functioning correctly, but it didn't see the PreSonus FireStudio Mobile at all. PreSonus support helped me track down that it didn't have an IRQ.

Uninstalling it, then physically reinstalling (after cleaning the contacts) fixed the problem. When the system was started up, it recognized the card, installed it (completely this time) and now I'm back up and running. Completely. Fulll system sounds and no problem recording through the Mobile.

The whole ordeal probably shortened my life by a year or two with all the stress, but I guess it was worth it.

 

[marnold]

Whew! I learned the hard way with my new box how "fun" tracking down hardware problems is. Glad you've found the solution--and a relatively inexpensive one at that.

 

[Rockermann]

Whew! I learned the hard way with my new box how "fun" tracking down hardware problems is. Glad you've found the solution--and a relatively inexpensive one at that.

Exactly... $30 for the card. To too hard to swallow at all. I just wish it would have worked on first installation. I was at my wits end when it didn't.

 

[deeaa]

Sometimes, the harder it is to achieve a goal, the better it finally is.

 

[Rockermann]

Sometimes, the harder it is to achieve a goal, the better it finally is.

Boy, ain't that the truth. I'm serious, I felt a true and powerful sense of accomplishment after getting this to work. I was all ready to move my DAW back to an older XP machine, but I held in there JUST long enough to get it to work. :thumbsup