ZMAN
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 2,046
- Reaction score
- 0
- City & State/Province
- North of the Equator: I am a Southerner, Southern
Probably a lot drier as well.
Gibsons and copies
- Thread starter NWBasser
- Start date
gordy_sg_no1
Well-known member
i have several SGs in my rack but i have to say my main goto guitar is my vintage vs6 sg clone. damn i love the vs6 set up nice, easy to play, sounds great (not a kick in the groin off a gibson) so it ticked all the boxes. although what i have found is most copies are good but not exelent compared to the real deal............... but just occasionaly you strike gold in a clone. the golden rule of guitars is play em before you buy 'em. my 2007 sg standard needed more work on it than any other guitar i own, whereas i have got an epi lp that i didnt need to touch and sounded exellent. so yeah you can get a clone that is great and can be as good as a gibson but its never going to beat it and its seldom to find. best evidence of a cheap guitar sounding good is jimmy page's danelectro which costs between £150 and £200
Andy
Well-known member
both Gibson AND Fender have equally expensive guitars..BOTH companys have serious competition from many manufactures.and I venture to say the stratocaster has been copied more than any other guitar
for some reason people tend to bash Gibson , vs copies more than any other brand
why is that?
for some reason people tend to bash Gibson , vs copies more than any other brand
why is that?
deeaa
Well-known member
Andy said:
Because there's been too many occasions where the price doesn't in any way correlate w/quality...I didn't mind paying less than a 1000 bucks in the 90's for my LP Standard, which was a very good guitar indeed, but I've seen some today selling for over 2000 that have been no better in any real terms than a 500-buck Epiphone...sometimes even clearly worse in finishing etc.
I wouldn't mind a gibby again, a nice V perhaps this time, but I won't pay such a premium for brand name alone. So it just angers me in such occasions.
Duffy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,048
- Reaction score
- 0
- City & State/Province
- W. Branch of Susquehanna River, Pennsylvania
Copies
My new Epiphone Tribute 1960 is an awesome guitar, stock. Whether it is a copy or not I'm not sure, I would suppose it is to some extent a copy and at the same time a unique product on its own.
My new Agile AL 3100 bound on top and bottom is stunning and awesome, stock. It is heavy and has a very substantial neck which I really like. The tone and feel are great and the playability is really great. The guitar looks super great. It is a copy but stands on its own as a unique product, priced very well for its worth. I plan on getting a black one like it. Just set it beside a lot of other guitars and look at it and you can compare the two and see how superior the Agile is.
I also think that there are some great Fenders out there that an intermediate player can appreciate, MIM, Indonesian, etc. Very reasonably priced. The blacktops are great. I played a Jaguar blacktop yesterday and it was a really flawless guitar with great tone and feel played thru a new Hot Rod Deluxe III. I really wanted to play the Jazzmaster but the neck P90 would not switch on, so why bother since I wanted to hear that neck sound and see if I like it. But these blacktops are beautiful and feel great and have an awesomely low price, almost in the Agile price range, even though a different animal but a quality guitar nonetheless, style of guitar aside.
I like my Agile LP copy as well as my Epi standards, but the Epi Tribute is totally awesome and a pleasure to hear, feel, and play - not exactly a cheap guitar. I paid 299 for my top and bottom bound Agile AL 3100 and it is awesome in every respect. The Tribute was much more and really awesome as well.
Even the LTD LP-ish copy-ish EC series are very nice, especially the Deluxe with the Seymour Duncan humbuckers, very superior guitars and light too.
My new Epiphone Tribute 1960 is an awesome guitar, stock. Whether it is a copy or not I'm not sure, I would suppose it is to some extent a copy and at the same time a unique product on its own.
My new Agile AL 3100 bound on top and bottom is stunning and awesome, stock. It is heavy and has a very substantial neck which I really like. The tone and feel are great and the playability is really great. The guitar looks super great. It is a copy but stands on its own as a unique product, priced very well for its worth. I plan on getting a black one like it. Just set it beside a lot of other guitars and look at it and you can compare the two and see how superior the Agile is.
I also think that there are some great Fenders out there that an intermediate player can appreciate, MIM, Indonesian, etc. Very reasonably priced. The blacktops are great. I played a Jaguar blacktop yesterday and it was a really flawless guitar with great tone and feel played thru a new Hot Rod Deluxe III. I really wanted to play the Jazzmaster but the neck P90 would not switch on, so why bother since I wanted to hear that neck sound and see if I like it. But these blacktops are beautiful and feel great and have an awesomely low price, almost in the Agile price range, even though a different animal but a quality guitar nonetheless, style of guitar aside.
I like my Agile LP copy as well as my Epi standards, but the Epi Tribute is totally awesome and a pleasure to hear, feel, and play - not exactly a cheap guitar. I paid 299 for my top and bottom bound Agile AL 3100 and it is awesome in every respect. The Tribute was much more and really awesome as well.
Even the LTD LP-ish copy-ish EC series are very nice, especially the Deluxe with the Seymour Duncan humbuckers, very superior guitars and light too.
Bloozcat
Leggo of my HoHo!
I suppose you have to proritize your criteria when talking about copies or clones of Gibsons.
Are you looking for a dead ringer copy right down to headstock shape, curve of the body horn, tuner type, paint finish, etc.?
*OR*
Are you looking for a clone that has those things that are responsible for the tone and playability of a Gibson even though it might not look exactly like the Gibson its copying?
The basic shape of a Les Paul is partially responsible for its tone. Start with the correct wood types like the 2-piece mahogany body, 2-Piece book matched 3/4" carved maple top, one piece mahogany neck with the correct tenon and you complete the proper wood aspect of the LP puzzle. Then you add the quality of assembly with proper neck work, fit, finish, intonation, and playability, and you've got the "feels right/proper set-up" aspect in place. Next, you add quality hardware & electronics and finally the finish (paint) and you've got the rest of the puzzle. It isn't magic, it's attention to detail and good quality control that makes a clone "just as good as a Gibson" or not. The Japanese proved it by not only making clones that sound and play like Gibsons, but they even look just like them. Many of these Japanese copies go for more than the Norlin era "real" Gibsons due to their superior quality. Of course, we're now in the lawsuit era where exact copies are disallowed by law, but that doesn't mean you can't get a quasi-clone that feels and sounds like a Gibson.
A word on the electronics: Gibson doesn't hold their electronics to a rigid spec. They do with their pickups, but not the rest of the components.They basically grab whatever 500k pots they have on hand (+/- 20% tollerance) and add them to the Gibson/Switchcraft toggle switch and input jact that's also on hand. Then they add generic capacitors (or deceivingly, "fake" look alike bumblebees), good quality wire, and that's the electronics package. Just take a trip over to mylespaul.com and look at all the Gibson LP owners over there who regularly change the electronics on their $2500.00 (and up) "real" Les Pauls. And many of them change out the Gibson pickups for after markets as well. So, does it really matter if your "clone" uses lesser quality electronic components if you're likely to change them out anyway? At least with your clone, you didn't pay a premium price for those components.
I don't have a thing against Gibson, except that the price of an LP has gone up 400% since the mid 70's. I've owned a couple of Gibsons in the past and liked them very much.
A buddy who I hunt with bought a new Gibson Les Paul that he brought to the hunting lodge a couple of years ago. I got to play it a lot for 4-days and although I thought it was a good guitar, I like the feel (and tone) of my Agile AL-3100M better. He paid just under $2k for the Gibson. I paid, tops, $725.00 for my Agile with hand selected CTS pots, Switchcraft toggle switch & input jack, NOS Sprague PIO caps, and Guitarforce custom pickups installed.. Is my friend's LP worth the $1275.00 extra he paid for it? Not to me, not for my needs, not for my pocket book. Ok, he got a nitro finish while mine is just polyurethane, but mine has better tone and plays better...:thumbsup
We're in a golden age of guitars. Never has the availability of inexpensive, quality, guitars been better.
Are you looking for a dead ringer copy right down to headstock shape, curve of the body horn, tuner type, paint finish, etc.?
*OR*
Are you looking for a clone that has those things that are responsible for the tone and playability of a Gibson even though it might not look exactly like the Gibson its copying?
The basic shape of a Les Paul is partially responsible for its tone. Start with the correct wood types like the 2-piece mahogany body, 2-Piece book matched 3/4" carved maple top, one piece mahogany neck with the correct tenon and you complete the proper wood aspect of the LP puzzle. Then you add the quality of assembly with proper neck work, fit, finish, intonation, and playability, and you've got the "feels right/proper set-up" aspect in place. Next, you add quality hardware & electronics and finally the finish (paint) and you've got the rest of the puzzle. It isn't magic, it's attention to detail and good quality control that makes a clone "just as good as a Gibson" or not. The Japanese proved it by not only making clones that sound and play like Gibsons, but they even look just like them. Many of these Japanese copies go for more than the Norlin era "real" Gibsons due to their superior quality. Of course, we're now in the lawsuit era where exact copies are disallowed by law, but that doesn't mean you can't get a quasi-clone that feels and sounds like a Gibson.
A word on the electronics: Gibson doesn't hold their electronics to a rigid spec. They do with their pickups, but not the rest of the components.They basically grab whatever 500k pots they have on hand (+/- 20% tollerance) and add them to the Gibson/Switchcraft toggle switch and input jact that's also on hand. Then they add generic capacitors (or deceivingly, "fake" look alike bumblebees), good quality wire, and that's the electronics package. Just take a trip over to mylespaul.com and look at all the Gibson LP owners over there who regularly change the electronics on their $2500.00 (and up) "real" Les Pauls. And many of them change out the Gibson pickups for after markets as well. So, does it really matter if your "clone" uses lesser quality electronic components if you're likely to change them out anyway? At least with your clone, you didn't pay a premium price for those components.
I don't have a thing against Gibson, except that the price of an LP has gone up 400% since the mid 70's. I've owned a couple of Gibsons in the past and liked them very much.
A buddy who I hunt with bought a new Gibson Les Paul that he brought to the hunting lodge a couple of years ago. I got to play it a lot for 4-days and although I thought it was a good guitar, I like the feel (and tone) of my Agile AL-3100M better. He paid just under $2k for the Gibson. I paid, tops, $725.00 for my Agile with hand selected CTS pots, Switchcraft toggle switch & input jack, NOS Sprague PIO caps, and Guitarforce custom pickups installed.. Is my friend's LP worth the $1275.00 extra he paid for it? Not to me, not for my needs, not for my pocket book. Ok, he got a nitro finish while mine is just polyurethane, but mine has better tone and plays better...:thumbsup
We're in a golden age of guitars. Never has the availability of inexpensive, quality, guitars been better.
deeaa
Well-known member
Superb post blooz, just one detail to add...many transparent-finish les pauls have 1-piece bodies, mine for instance had.
BTW one pf the best gibsons I ever played was an all-walnut The Paul from the 70's. Had it had the normal wide neck not the 70s narrower style, it could have been close to best guitars I ever played...well its still in top five.
BTW one pf the best gibsons I ever played was an all-walnut The Paul from the 70's. Had it had the normal wide neck not the 70s narrower style, it could have been close to best guitars I ever played...well its still in top five.
mapka
Well-known member
I have an 06 Classic LP Goldtop. I love the guitar but for some reason the finish does not love me. It gets very cloudy where my arm lies over the body. Because of this I went looking for something that will give me the LP tone but I would not get alarmed if it gets nicked and scratched. I went the clone direction. I bought a Hagstrom with the tremolo on it. I love this guitar! Tone is right, neck is right, and the finish is superb. The only downfall I have found is the switches are kind of cheap, but so far they keep working. I must also add that the tremolo is outstanding. It keeps in tune all the time no matter how much you use it. Plus it stands out in the crowd!
gordy_sg_no1
Well-known member
mapka said:
nicely done quite like hagstroms myself, and in all reality switches are cheap enough to replace if it shuffles off. btw where the hell did you find it as im considering either a new bogner amp or another guitar.
Brian Krashpad
Well-known member
Wow, a jump from May to October! Thread excavated!
Somehow I didn't manage to get in on the first go-round, so here's my 3 cents. (Being a lawyer, I can never give just my two cents.)
Not to sound too nihilistic, but in the end none of this matters much. Now me, I'm a cheap b*stard, and frequently flat as a floogie, so here's Krashpad's Kriterion:
A deal is a deal is a deal.
If it ain't a deal, I won't buy it.
I don't have anything against guitars on either end of the spectrum. I have no-name parts guitars, but I also have Gibsons, a Ric, a USA Hamer, and USA Fenders.
How can this be?
They were all deals.
Now if all my guitars were the more expensive type, even getting deals, it's still true I'd have fewer. In the eyes of some, that's probably what I should do: sell all the cheapies and have fewer, so they'd all be "nice pieces" (as you might hear over at TGP, not there's anything wrong with that).
But srsly, f*ck that. Have any you seen me with a guitar onstage? I have been known to play with what might be called a certain small amount of reckless abandon. So any nice pieces I have (and I do have some) are not going to remain pristine very long. I'm proud to say I've never actually broken a guitar onstage (I did bust a tuning peg off once) and I never intentionally abuse a guitar, but the point is (assuming there's one lurking in here somewhere) if the cheapies are also getting the job done, why sell them off and end up with fewer?
I have to admit to having a chronic case of Nielsen Syndrome. It would be bosstastically rocktackular to have a roadie hand me a fresh guitar every 2 or 3 (or fewer!) songs when gigging, but that ain't gonna happen. But I can go play a show and not play the same guitar as last time, and not have any repeats in quite awhile (given that I don't gig a ton). I'll admit it's juvenile as all get out, but that appeals to me. Goofball? Guilty as charged.
Conversely, I could have even more guitars if I weeded out the Gibsons, Hamer USA, etc. However, as it is I'm basically out of space to store the beeyotches anyhow (currently: 20 electric guitars, 5 bass guitars, 3 acoustics, plus a few other stringed instruments), what would be the point of that? I like my Gibbies, Hamer, Ric, etc. And despite being, generally, more expensive than my imports (an exception being the Ric which I got for the equivalent of $250 in a trade), they were all good deals.
A deal is a deal is a deal.
If it's a deal and I like it (part of which is whether it adds something to the "collection"), I buy it.
What anybody else does or thinks don't really matter to me.
Somehow I didn't manage to get in on the first go-round, so here's my 3 cents. (Being a lawyer, I can never give just my two cents.)
Not to sound too nihilistic, but in the end none of this matters much. Now me, I'm a cheap b*stard, and frequently flat as a floogie, so here's Krashpad's Kriterion:
A deal is a deal is a deal.
If it ain't a deal, I won't buy it.
I don't have anything against guitars on either end of the spectrum. I have no-name parts guitars, but I also have Gibsons, a Ric, a USA Hamer, and USA Fenders.
How can this be?
They were all deals.
Now if all my guitars were the more expensive type, even getting deals, it's still true I'd have fewer. In the eyes of some, that's probably what I should do: sell all the cheapies and have fewer, so they'd all be "nice pieces" (as you might hear over at TGP, not there's anything wrong with that).
But srsly, f*ck that. Have any you seen me with a guitar onstage? I have been known to play with what might be called a certain small amount of reckless abandon. So any nice pieces I have (and I do have some) are not going to remain pristine very long. I'm proud to say I've never actually broken a guitar onstage (I did bust a tuning peg off once) and I never intentionally abuse a guitar, but the point is (assuming there's one lurking in here somewhere) if the cheapies are also getting the job done, why sell them off and end up with fewer?
I have to admit to having a chronic case of Nielsen Syndrome. It would be bosstastically rocktackular to have a roadie hand me a fresh guitar every 2 or 3 (or fewer!) songs when gigging, but that ain't gonna happen. But I can go play a show and not play the same guitar as last time, and not have any repeats in quite awhile (given that I don't gig a ton). I'll admit it's juvenile as all get out, but that appeals to me. Goofball? Guilty as charged.
Conversely, I could have even more guitars if I weeded out the Gibsons, Hamer USA, etc. However, as it is I'm basically out of space to store the beeyotches anyhow (currently: 20 electric guitars, 5 bass guitars, 3 acoustics, plus a few other stringed instruments), what would be the point of that? I like my Gibbies, Hamer, Ric, etc. And despite being, generally, more expensive than my imports (an exception being the Ric which I got for the equivalent of $250 in a trade), they were all good deals.
A deal is a deal is a deal.
If it's a deal and I like it (part of which is whether it adds something to the "collection"), I buy it.
What anybody else does or thinks don't really matter to me.
FusedGrooves
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2009
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 0
read it from OP to end.....good thread.....no scratch that, GREAT THREAD!
I wanted a genuine Gibson 335/355 style. Was prepared to spend big to get the 'dream' guitar, figured I'd have to wait for a big milestone (like hitting 40)...Thankfully I met and became good friends with a guitar collector at my work who has 70+ guitars - from that about 10-15 are not 'top of the range or collectors items' so he has like 50+ REALLY good guitars. I've never seen so many *differing* original Gibson LPs in one location he has them all, quite often several of the same too.
He started lending me different guitars for a few months at a time. During this time my education on guitars was just starting even though I'd been playing for 20+yrs. Had not had alot of $$ to spend on music so stuck with what I'd purchased. So when I mentioned I would buy my Gibson *one day* he said borrow this, borrow that and tried em all. Tried x 2 335s, a heritage, sheraton, x 2 Yammie SA2200s (one deluxe one standard) as well as Artcores and the list goes on....I am SO SO SO SO lucky to get this chance because after playing them all I settled on the Yamaha SA2200 and have not looked back.
No longer do I want (read need) a Gibson and most importantly I would now take the Yammie over the Gibson anyday. Quality/finish is P E R F E C T, Alnico V humbuckers with single coil tap and ebony fretboard which feels SOOOO f-ing good under my fingers......and half the price of the standard 335next to it at the shop......
I love this guitar like no other - no really....LOL
I really wish everyone could trial a SA2200 back to back with some of these other semi hollows....
I wanted a genuine Gibson 335/355 style. Was prepared to spend big to get the 'dream' guitar, figured I'd have to wait for a big milestone (like hitting 40)...Thankfully I met and became good friends with a guitar collector at my work who has 70+ guitars - from that about 10-15 are not 'top of the range or collectors items' so he has like 50+ REALLY good guitars. I've never seen so many *differing* original Gibson LPs in one location he has them all, quite often several of the same too.
He started lending me different guitars for a few months at a time. During this time my education on guitars was just starting even though I'd been playing for 20+yrs. Had not had alot of $$ to spend on music so stuck with what I'd purchased. So when I mentioned I would buy my Gibson *one day* he said borrow this, borrow that and tried em all. Tried x 2 335s, a heritage, sheraton, x 2 Yammie SA2200s (one deluxe one standard) as well as Artcores and the list goes on....I am SO SO SO SO lucky to get this chance because after playing them all I settled on the Yamaha SA2200 and have not looked back.
No longer do I want (read need) a Gibson and most importantly I would now take the Yammie over the Gibson anyday. Quality/finish is P E R F E C T, Alnico V humbuckers with single coil tap and ebony fretboard which feels SOOOO f-ing good under my fingers......and half the price of the standard 335next to it at the shop......
I love this guitar like no other - no really....LOL
I really wish everyone could trial a SA2200 back to back with some of these other semi hollows....
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Gig Report: Amber & the Antidotes at Cypress & Grove Brewery, 5/29/26- Latest: Brian Krashpad
-
