Hey you master carpenters!

[duhvoodooman]

I want to build a speaker cabinet but have ZERO carpentry skills, so I'm looking at Lopoline cabs, specifically the 1x12 models. They look very well made, and the price seems more than fair. Thinking I'll probably try one of those new Warehouse Guitar Speakers Celestion Vintage 30 knockoffs in it.

Haven't decided on whether to go with the closed or open back version. Opinions/advice??

 

[Spudman]

If you are going to copy then copy a great design, Ear Candy.

http://www.earcandycabs.com/

This has a ported mahogany plywood speaker board and birch cabinet. They are amazing cabinets.

 

[Bloozcat]

Lopoline, Ear Candy, and Avatar all have 1X12 models that appear well made. Finger jointed or dovetail jointed construction is the strongest with finger jointed being the preferred "vintage" style.

As to open vs. closed back design, it all depends on what you're looking to get out of the cabinet. Closed back cabs project the sound in a fairly tight cone, while the open back type surround the area around the cabinet with less forward projection (although it's still substantial). If you're trying to project your sound to the back of a larger room, closed back does it best (think Marshall stacks in an auditorium). Closed back cabs also deliver a fuller low end. If you want a wider sound that covers a broader area, open back is best. Open back also makes it easier for band mates to hear you as well.

I really like the semi-open back type, personnally. It incorporates the positive features of an open back, and it gives you a higher degree of bottom end and projection than a straight open back as well.

Just my $.02 opinion, feel free to give me change back if you think it's over-valued....

 

[duhvoodooman]

A little birdie told me about THIS GUY who recently started selling speaker cabs on eBay. The buyer feedback thusfar is stellar, and the price is certainly right. Construction quality looks excellent, and he will build to order. I think I may go with one of these, since they look very comparable to the Lopo 1x12's. The Avatar and Ear Candy stuff looks great, but is more than I want to spend.

 

[Bloozcat]

I'd jump on that one DVM, especially if you get the panel shown in the picture that makes it a closed back if you want. The price is right, and dado joint construction is good and strong.

Doing your own cabinet would be fun, but unless you already have a router, a table saw (or a good circular saw), maybe a drill press, and a bunch of hand tools, it's expensive to get started. If you buy those tools just to make a couple of cabinets for yourself, you can't justify the cost.

The other down side of buying these tools, is if your wife sees what you can do with them, she'll think of all sorts of honey-do projects for you....:thwap:

Dumb like foxes, they are...

 

[duhvoodooman]

Yeah, I'm not about to dive into carpentry at this point. Getting into electronics has been expensive enough! Not to mention the potential "honey-do" exposure you quite correctly point out, BC!

I'm just waiting to hear back from the eBay guy on what he charges to ship. If it's reasonable, I'll make the deal. Already have the colors picked out--tweed tolex with oxblood grill cloth. I like the "classics"! The removable back plate is an extra $10, but well worth it, IMO....

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, I'm not about to dive into carpentry at this point. Getting into electronics has been expensive enough! Not to mention the potential "honey-do" exposure you quite correctly point out, BC!

I'm just waiting to hear back from the eBay guy on what he charges to ship. If it's reasonable, I'll make the deal. Already have the colors picked out--tweed tolex with oxblood grill cloth. I like the "classics"! The removable back plate is an extra $10, but well worth it, IMO....

$10 for a feature like that, is well worth it, considering not only the materials, but the value of his time, the value of your time, etc. I think a project like that would be fun one day, but right now I can't add projects of that magnitude to my load. I think it sounds like a great deal.

 

[snarph]

It would seem the biggest thing to consider of the first three vendors is shipping cost personally I like the Snake skin cabs the best:deadhorse:

 

[TS808]

Yeah, I'm not about to dive into carpentry at this point. Getting into electronics has been expensive enough! Not to mention the potential "honey-do" exposure you quite correctly point out, BC!

I'm just waiting to hear back from the eBay guy on what he charges to ship. If it's reasonable, I'll make the deal. Already have the colors picked out--tweed tolex with oxblood grill cloth. I like the "classics"! The removable back plate is an extra $10, but well worth it, IMO....

Just being able to select your own color AND the speaker that YOU want to put in the cab is a huge plus. The savings of buying the cab alone and adding your own speaker are still much better than buying a pre-loaded cab in most cases.

I'd say go for it, and I'm liking the snakeskin one too

 

[duhvoodooman]

Done did the deal! 1x12 cab, tweed tolex, oxblood grill, all chrome hardware and removable backplate. Will post pics when it arrives.

Gotta go order a speaker now.... ude:

 

[Bloozcat]

Done did the deal! 1x12 cab, tweed tolex, oxblood grill, all chrome hardware and removable backplate. Will post pics when it arrives.

Gotta go order a speaker now.... ude:

What's going to be the primary amp you'll be running through this cab DVM?

I'm sure you're aware that Warehouse Speakers has raised their price on the Vintage 30 clone, to about $40.00 now. Probably still worth it, though.

 

[duhvoodooman]

Well, I have a couple of things in mind. First, I'd like to wire up my Valve Jr. combo to be able to switch the output jack to 8 ohm (the tranny is already wired for it) and use this cab with it. Secondly, I'm going to be building one of THESE shortly, and need something to play it through. And thirdly, I may try building a small tube amp head in the not-too-distant future, perhaps THIS ONE. So I'm sure it will get its share of use!

Yes, I'm aware that Warehouse Speakers raised their prices. The V30 clone is now $45, but that's still only a little more than a third of what the Celestion original goes for ($120 typical price).

 

[Bloozcat]

Well, I have a couple of things in mind. First, I'd like to wire up my Valve Jr. combo to be able to switch the output jack to 8 ohm (the tranny is already wired for it) and use this cab with it. Secondly, I'm going to be building one of THESE shortly, and need something to play it through. And thirdly, I may try building a small tube amp head in the not-too-distant future, perhaps THIS ONE. So I'm sure it will get its share of use!

Yes, I'm aware that Warehouse Speakers raised their prices. The V30 clone is now $45, but that's still only a little more than half of what the Celestion original goes for.

Kind of ironic isn't it, that if you buy a Warehouse Speaker V30 "clone", you'll be getting a US made speaker; but if you were to buy the "real" Celestion you'd be getting a speaker that's made in China? Strange, to say the least.

I'm watching and waiting for Warehouse Speakers to come out with their Greenback clone that I've been hearing about. I'm not sure what I'll do with one at this point, since I have several other speakers already that are not in use right now.

 

[duhvoodooman]

I guess he's looking into an Alnico Blue clone, too, but hasn't been able to find one at the right price point. Those things certainly are hellaciously expensive....

 

[pie_man_25]

I made my own cabinet from scratch over the summer, Its made from a 10 inch radio shack all range woofer, for my bass. It's made out of particle board, which is pretty light, and has an overall good speaker. If my new band works out I'll also be making a 412 for bass out of the same, and I'd probably use celestion speakers as well, the material doesn't matter, all that matters is the speaker and the connectibility, guitars generally use quarter-inch or banana plugs, while bass uses AXL, speakon, quarter-inch and banana plugs. personally, I find that AXL or banana plugs are the best. Another thing to consider is the reactivity of the speaker.

 

[duhvoodooman]

....the material doesn't matter, all that matters is the speaker and the connectibility....

Ummm, sorry to disagree, but that's just not so. Cabinet material as well as method of construction very definitely has an impact on tone, for better or worse. Guitarists simply wouldn't pay premium prices for well constructed cabinets if there was no sonic benefit. A premium speaker might sound good in almost any cabinet, but it will definitely sound better--more open, resonant and articulate--in a properly sized and constructed cabinet made of a quality material such as Baltic birch.

BTW, my AB Custom Audio 1x12 cab is in the mail and I already received the speaker, so should hopefully be assembling and testing it out by mid-week....

 

[Bloozcat]

If you're talking about sound reproduction as in a stereo system, then particle board is a very good material to use. It's good because it is very dense and does not color the tone of the recorded music. It is nuetral or sterile in terms of the tone.

With a musical instrument you are creating the sound, not merely reproducing it. If one agrees that the type of wood a guitar is made of, the type of pickups and how they're wired, or the type of amp and speaker combination are all important to the final tone, how can one then argue that the speaker cabinet material has no bearing on the tone? The musical creation is above all, a product of the talent of the musician. But the tone is a sum of all the ingredients in the signal chain...including the speaker cabinet.

Do wory, pie_man...we were all young once and had ideas that we later found out weren't very valid. It's how you learn. You have an advantage though that many of us never had. You've got a forum like this where you can get answers. We used to have to rely on each others' erroneous opinions until we stumbled accross someone who knew better...and in many cases, that took a long time

 

[pie_man_25]

If you're talking about sound reproduction as in a stereo system, then particle board is a very good material to use. It's good because it is very dense and does not color the tone of the recorded music. It is nuetral or sterile in terms of the tone.

With a musical instrument you are creating the sound, not merely reproducing it. If one agrees that the type of wood a guitar is made of, the type of pickups and how they're wired, or the type of amp and speaker combination are all important to the final tone, how can one then argue that the speaker cabinet material has no bearing on the tone? The musical creation is above all, a product of the talent of the musician. But the tone is a sum of all the ingredients in the signal chain...including the speaker cabinet.

before we get into a senseless argument, you should realize that I respect your opinion, but I see different logic and am merely stating that logic:

in my own opinion, the wood of a guitar affects tone because although the pickups are picking up that signal, the wood is what's being the soundboard for the strings vibrations and that different woods react differently under different situations, while in a speaker cabinet the following applies:

1) the speaker is what is doing the vibrating, and therefore the size, cone material and magnet matters.

2) the wood is usually a ply, or particle board any ways, which offer little in the way of natural vibration.

3) although the size of the speaker cabinet does matter because of the resonance frequencie (larger cabs, lower resonance frequencie, smaller cab higher frequencie), the species of wood is usually chipped to hell and glued together, which in my opinion, offers little in the way of tone.

 

[Bloozcat]

before we get into a senseless argument, you should realize that I respect your opinion, but I see different logic and am merely stating that logic:

in my own opinion, the wood of a guitar affects tone because although the pickups are picking up that signal, the wood is what's being the soundboard for the strings vibrations and that different woods react differently under different situations, while in a speaker cabinet the following applies:

1) the speaker is what is doing the vibrating, and therefore the size, cone material and magnet matters.

That's sort of like saying; "The strings are what's doing the vibrating, and therefore it's the pickup magnets and windings that matters". Most would agree that, while this is true, the wood used in an electric guitar plays a major role in tone as well. Put your hand on the speaker cabinet while the speaker is vibrating. Now try to tell me that the cabinet is not vibrating also. Every object that vibrates, does so at it's own resonant frequency.

2) the wood is usually a ply, or particle board any ways, which offer little in the way of natural vibration.

The vintage Fender cabinets are made of pine board, which is not ply, nor is it particle board. It's board lumber. Yes, many cabinets are made of birch ply, but that's still a far cry from particle board which is a heterogeneous sawdust that's held together with a lot of glue.

3) although the size of the speaker cabinet does matter because of the resonance frequencie (larger cabs, lower resonance frequencie, smaller cab higher frequencie), the species of wood is usually chipped to hell and glued together, which in my opinion, offers little in the way of tone.

While the size of a speaker cabinet does matter if one is trying to achieve the optimum resonant frenquencies, but that's only true with closed back cabinets that are sealed and air tight. Besides, that is only true if one is trying to accurately reproduce already established frequencies, as in recorded music. Creating music with an instrument is another matter altogether. You are trying to create a particular tone and everything in the signal chain contributes to this, including the speaker cabinet construction. Again, the pine cabinets are not chipped and glued together.

Another factor in formulating my opinions regarding speaker cabinet construction is empirical evidence. Close to my home is a custom guitar shop that was, before they moved, right next door to a custom amp shop. The owners of both shops are tone obsessed. About two years ago, they jointly constructed several speaker cabinets with a variety of woods, in a variety of configurations, and with a variety of finishes/coverings. They even experimented with several different baffle boards and cabinet backs. The results of their experiments proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone who was a part of the tone test (at least eight people in all, including me), that choice of wood makes a tremendous difference in the tone of a cabinet. The types of finish/coverings also make a big difference along with the baffle board construction.

My opinions on speaker cabinets prior to this was based on a lot of anecdotal evidence from individual cabinets I had used and information from others' experiences. I was fortunate to have seen and heard a much more comprehensive study, first hand, in a controlled experiment. Let me tell you, the results surprised a lot of us, and many long held notions about tone had to be abandoned in the face of the evidence. But more important than seeing our pre-concieved notions validated, was the enlightenment that came from learning that we were wrong. No one likes to have their opinions repudiated, but I personally would much rather learn that I was wrong and correct it, than to forever cling to an erroneous opinion.

I'm just trying to pass along that which I was so fortunate to have been privy to....

 

[pie_man_25]

[/COLOR]

Another factor in formulating my opinions regarding speaker cabinet construction is empirical evidence. Close to my home is a custom guitar shop that was, before they moved, right next door to a custom amp shop. The owners of both shops are tone obsessed. About two years ago, they jointly constructed several speaker cabinets with a variety of woods, in a variety of configurations, and with a variety of finishes/coverings. They even experimented with several different baffle boards and cabinet backs. The results of their experiments proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone who was a part of the tone test (at least eight people in all, including me), that choice of wood makes a tremendous difference in the tone of a cabinet. The types of finish/coverings also make a big difference along with the baffle board construction.

My opinions on speaker cabinets prior to this was based on a lot of anecdotal evidence from individual cabinets I had used and information from others' experiences. I was fortunate to have seen and heard a much more comprehensive study, first hand, in a controlled experiment. Let me tell you, the results surprised a lot of us, and many long held notions about tone had to be abandoned in the face of the evidence. But more important than seeing our pre-concieved notions validated, was the enlightenment that came from learning that we were wrong. No one likes to have their opinions repudiated, but I personally would much rather learn that I was wrong and correct it, than to forever cling to an erroneous opinion.

I'm just trying to pass along that which I was so fortunate to have been privy to....

well, I guess after you explained your points to me, I can see the validity of your point and see how you get it, I guess since I didn' see that experiment which you mentioned, I can't say from experience, although that does sound like an awesome thing to do. anyways, I guess I'm trying to say that you have convinced me about your opinion, though I am still reluctant to admit fully that I was wrong.

 

[Bloozcat]

well, I guess after you explained your points to me, I can see the validity of your point and see how you get it, I guess since I didn' see that experiment which you mentioned, I can't say from experience, although that does sound like an awesome thing to do. anyways, I guess I'm trying to say that you have convinced me about your opinion, though I am still reluctant to admit fully that I was wrong.

LOL, you remind me of myself when I was your age...

If you ever get the chance, try it for yourself. Experience is the best teacher. The hardest thing is always maintaining an open mind when doing so, though. We all like to be validated in our opinions, and we often are. But it's even more gratifying to learn something new, even if it comes at the expense of our cherished beliefs. We all have an ego, and it often interferes with learning...but only if we let it.

And yes, I still find that I am wrong about many things...

 

[pie_man_25]

LOL, you remind me of myself when I was your age...

If you ever get the chance, try it for yourself. Experience is the best teacher. The hardest thing is always maintaining an open mind when doing so, though. We all like to be validated in our opinions, and we often are. But it's even more gratifying to learn something new, even if it comes at the expense of our cherished beliefs. We all have an ego, and it often interferes with learning...but only if we let it.

And yes, I still find that I am wrong about many things...

well, I guess most of it is pride, I mean hey, testosterone produces a big ego, which I do have most of the time, although I do have a generally mellow disposition, especially after lunch. anyways, my point is, I'm a guy, what do yoiu want me to say?!

 

[YerDugliness]

anyways, my point is, I'm a guy, what do yoiu want me to say?!

Here's what I usually say: "I thought I was wrong once, but upon reflection I realized I was mistaken".

I can't tell you how many ex-wives have slapped me for that :whatever: .

Dugly

 

[tunghaichuan]

I usually subscribe to the philosophy of:

"I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong." :rotflmao: