Hm, looks like I'll be moving to U.S.A. for a while @ some point

[deeaa]

Kinda keeps seeming more and more likely my wife's going to find a post-doc job in the U.S. rather than more close to home. It'll be for a year at least, so I guess the entire family has to go, neither of us would want to live a year apart from each other and definitely not the kids.

So, gotta start planning. She'd prefer Boston area or some other big city area where there are prestigious universities she could get the place in, but I'd be more partial to going somewhere mid-west, like St.Louis maybe. Good universities there too. I figure it'd be better and safer for the kids. I have no idea what kind of housing we will be able to afford, maybe some sort of a small apartment, but I'd hate to move into some cheap and maybe bad neighborhood in a big city for a year.

The good news is that we'll be able to bring home a dirt-cheap car (tax free too!) which will mean something like 25K on the plus side monetarily, plus we could also bring along lots of ski-doos or ATV's etc. and maybe like a classic car for me for hobby, and with such deals I could probably net another 25K. But even then it's gonna be much less than the amount I'll lose in salaries, having a year off work and no income, plus it's all 'invisible' income that only comes after the year and mostly just as money saved in terms of getting stuff like semi-free cars, not money in the bank.

The bad news (maybe?) is that while my older son could go to 1st grade in the U.S. as well, I myself will have to be a 'house husband' for the duration and just be the baby-sitter. Oh well I could write a book or two to kill time. But, it's not like I'm ecstatic about the whole thing. I could maybe work a little, find some translation jobs etc. but I can't really think of any job I could get there that would pay enough for it to be reasonable. (what is reasonable even??) And of course we'll have to get someone to mind the house and the summer house while we're away.

Anyway...it's just mind-boggling to think of all the things included. I'd have to sell most of my computer stuff, likely some music gear as well, and I'd definitely need a new computer states-side, plus a good network deal, and of course all the other stuff from insurances to whatnot.

Sheesh. Anyway, if you have any ideas what to avoid in areas etc. please do comment...I've only stayed in the Tri-State area before.

 

[marnold]

By "tri-state" I assume you mean the greater New York City area? It's hard to offer specific recommendations because, well, the U.S. is a pretty big place. I find it amazing that you could save all that money buying cars, etc., here. I'd think that the shipping alone would kill off any profit. Usually you can address the safety issue (and the cost issue) by living in a smaller town outside the big town. You just have to gauge if you save enough to cover the transportation costs/time.

 

[deeaa]

Hell yeah, see, take a VW Passat for instance, it's what, around 20K over there? Guess what, they cost round 40K here. 108% tax on cars over factory price, so most any car in U.S. will be roughly twice as costly here.

Something like a Chevy Van with some passenger conversion options, or a Ram extended, could be priced at like $100K easy.
The thing is, you have to live abroad for a year to be able to bring it in tax-free...if it's just 6 months for instance, you bring a car that cost 50K, you'll pay 54K taxes on top of it...

Shipping a car costs merely 1500 or so...that's what a container costs, and it will carry 2 cars plus lots of bikes, ATV's etc. So yeah, cars, in our point of view, cost nothing in U.S.

Quite often, a car will be the most expensive thing a family ever buys. And it's not just the starting price, there's the yearly car taxes, gasoline is like $12 a gallon etc. etc...

I think it'd have to be so close to the university where she works that she could literally walk there...or some other similarly handy means of transport.

 

[marnold]

Wow! What's the "logic" behind such a high tax? Is it an import/protectionist kind of thing? If the U.S. government decided to tax things at a rate like that, there would be another revolution. I knew that gas taxes across Europe are ridiculous.

 

[piebaldpython]

What's her doctorate in? Is she a medical doctor?.....or a person who has PhD after her name? Gave us more info and we might be able to help you out more.

There are more universities within a 50 mi radius of Philadelphia than any other city in the USA.

 

[poodlesrule]

Dee, I can PM you about a couple of academia contacts, one in Boston, another in North Carolina.

If we are talking medical field in Boston, I can hit my oncologist for tips. He teaches as well, and he owes me one after the money he made off me in the past eight years...

 

[deeaa]

She's a biochemist, so I suppose it's doctor of...biochemistry? LOL. I don't even know the exact words. I know it shares a LOT of medical stuff, I mean, she does delicate surgeries on live mice...and she's been thinking of getting some more courses so she could also become a medical doctor quite easily. But that she is not. Other than that I don't know much. But I understand she could probably go to many a place, and the place itself will be arranged for then by the university and her superiors, once she just decides upon a region. I know she's been asked to at least visit some midwestern universities already, while she was in Spain presenting some of her study findings. I mean, where ever she goes, she'll get a grant for it from somewhere like the government or whatever, like, I dunno, 50K? 100K?, and we'll have to live on that the entire year, buy a car and all, plus pay for the upkeep of our houses here back home. I have no idea yet.

I do believe all the other necessary details will be handled too with the help of the faculty, so I don't expect any issues there. I used to work on a J-1 visa myself back in the 90's in N.Y. and that was simple enough without family, I just picked up a visa from the U.S. embassy and went there and worked.

So what I'd be mostly interested in is any views on where would you want to reside with a family in the U.S. given a free pick, with the assumption that we won't be able to select the best and safest neighborhoods, and have to stay close to whatever university there is...?

That and then also what the hell could I do during my stay...can't think of much else than translation, or just being the nanny for a year, LOL I guess I could try to find some local band to sing for, or such. I guess I can still keep recording songs if I just buy a laptop there, and all the necessary gear...if the residence is suitable in the least for screaming without bothering the neighbors It won't be easy but, well, they say you can survive a year standing in three feet of manure on - yer head - if you only have a straw to breathe thru, and despite all the difficulties, a year in the States could be great in many respects too. When I just think of all those dirt cheap guitars and stuff that costs nothing compared to here I start to drool a bit...

 

[piebaldpython]

So, in essence, a research scientist/doctor. OK, Philly is good......Boston area too as they do a lot of research at the major universities and hospitals......nice places to live and the winters will be warmer than what you are used to (whereas Boston would be too cold for me). Forget NYC, too expensive, too crowded and dangerous if you aren't conditioned to the hecticness of it all. Cleveland and Chicago are viable options....good places to live and work and again, their winters won't scare a native Finn. Last on the list, Minneapolis is outstanding for research. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[otaypanky]

I spent a month in Minneapolis from mid May to mid June back in '92. Actually, I was in Eden Prairie, maybe 20 minutes south as I recall. It was an awesome place for music. I was really surprised at how cool it was. Every week night I would go out to a local jam somewhere and on the weekends the local bands were great. The Whiskey Cafe was a blast

 

[mapka]

By "tri-state" I assume you mean the greater New York City area? It's hard to offer specific recommendations because, well, the U.S. is a pretty big place. I find it amazing that you could save all that money buying cars, etc., here. I'd think that the shipping alone would kill off any profit. Usually you can address the safety issue (and the cost issue) by living in a smaller town outside the big town. You just have to gauge if you save enough to cover the transportation costs/time.

I agree. No matter where the larger cities are found, you will surely find lots of crime. Boston is nice but very expensive to live. There also is a ton of traffic to get anywhere you want to go (at least it was that way 10 years ago when I was up there last). Same can be said of the NYC area. I live 2 hours from NYC and there are people who live here and work there. and that is 2 hours without traffic! with traffic you are talking closer to 3! Just to give you the idea of the commute some will go through. They do it because 5 years ago you could get a huge home here for the price they were paying for a tiny one there. Of course, that all has changed... You may want to consider the Philadelphia area. Many prestigious schools and the city has some nice neighborhoods (along with some very bad ones!) and a large suburbia area. There are also many Pharmaceutical companies in the area (possible internship for a bio chemist)

 

[Eric]

Wow, big changes afoot! I've worked pretty closely with a lot of biochem people in my job, so that's pretty interesting.

My guess for your housing is that if you live very close to the university, you'll probably pay through the nose for housing. The bigger and older cities (NYC, Boston) have ridiculously high rent relative to other areas of the country, which I suppose is kind of obvious.

She could probably find a good university to work at in most regions. Even places you wouldn't necessarily think of, like say Cleveland, have the Cleveland Clinic, which is a big research-y hospital. I doubt our recommendations are going to have much impact on where you end up, but I'm crossing my fingers that maybe our paths will cross while you're over here -- it would be really cool to meet you.

Keep us updated!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Not anywhere near the areas you are thinking of, but based on the looks of your pictures and the vegetation, water, etc. you might like the Seattle area. One really big research university, and many others. Nice, fun city with lots of music and cultural options. Beautiful water and mountains. A bit more mild than I see in your pics as the snow stays mostly up in the mountains rather than in town. Has a lot of the advantages she is looking for in Boston, but more "midwest" in feel than Boston, though not really midwest either. Certainly more mellow than back east. Good luck with the big move!

 

[marnold]

If it's a university where she'd be working, there are plenty of large, prestigious universities in small towns where it would be more affordable. Case in point: the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.

 

[deeaa]

Wow! What's the "logic" behind such a high tax? Is it an import/protectionist kind of thing? If the U.S. government decided to tax things at a rate like that, there would be another revolution. I knew that gas taxes across Europe are ridiculous.

Beats me...not for protection since they don't make cars here (save for some electric ones and I think some Porsches). Cars have always been a good milking cow for the government. I suppose they'd love if everyone just used public transport. Sometimes I feel like driving a car is next to the worst environmental crime there is there are tax reductions if the car is especially low-polluting one, though.

There are or at least were several loopholes in the law that people use. For instance, in the late 80's someone realized you could buy a pickup truck with lower tax than normal cars. Thus there was an influx of U.S. cars like TransAms which were promptly 'chopped' i.e. states-side someone justf used an angle grinder to cut off the back of the roof and the back seats and turn them into pick-ups and shipped here crazy.

I also used to have a Chevy Van that used a loophole in the law that you could have a cheap-taxed van that still had a backseat; the cargo room had to be left certain size and the backseats had to be shaped 90 degrees angle and maximum one inch of padding. There must still be thousands of such Chevyvans here in service. Oh yeah and with all these they had a fixed speed limit of 55(80km/h) even on 120 roads. There were also STW's built to similar specs, with 'temporary' backseats.

These days the only loophole I know is buying a heavy van, and if it's just heavy enough like the heaviest Chevyvan or a Ram pickup, you can legally register it as a truck, with low tax again. Only then only people with professional licences can drive them (I don't have one). And those have a speed limit of 60 (90Km/h).

 

[deeaa]

BTW she's got masters in biochemistry but her Ph.D. work is in neurobiology, and she said she can work in most any research group that starts with the neuro-affix.

 

[Eric]

Well, good luck. If things go according to plan, I have no clue where I'll be when you're over here.

 

[Tig]

BTW she's got masters in biochemistry but her Ph.D. work is in neurobiology, and she said she can work in most any research group that starts with the neuro-affix.

Yet another option to check out... The Houston Medical Center is home to some of the most renowned medical research and academic institutions in the world. TIRR is where Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords went to recover from her gunshot wound, for instance. Even the expensive near by residences are a fraction of the cost of what I've seen near Boston.

Academic and Research Institutions

• Baylor College of Medicine
• Michael E. DeBakey High School for Health Professions
• Houston Academy of Medicine-Texas Medical Center Library
• Houston Community College System, Health Science Programs
• The Methodist Hospital
• Prairie View A&M University, College of Nursing
• Rice University
• Texas A&M Health Science Center - Institute of Biosciences and Technology
• Texas Heart Institute
• Texas Southern University College of Pharmacy & Health Sciences
• Texas Woman's University Institute of Health Sciences-Houston
• University of Houston
• University of Houston College of Pharmacy
• The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston
• The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
  • Dental Branch
  • Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences
  • Harris County Psychiatric Center
  • Medical School
  • School of Health Information Sciences
  • School of Nursing
  • School of Public Health
  • Brown Foundation Institute of Molecular Medicine for the Prevention of Human Diseases
• The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center

 

[deeaa]

Hmm...yeah, I would not mind Texas at all. Neither would she. It could well be an option. It would certainly be a real experience to live for a while in such a vastly different climate.

Well, at any rate, it'll be at least 3-4 months before we can start really planning seriously. I have 2 months of vacation now, and only after that I can get to speak to my boss about a sabbatical or other options.

The only real worry I have is is that I _really_ can not afford to lose my job. I mean, I only was ever interested in the English language and that's all I really studied for. And most every teaching job here requires credentials in a minimum of two, like English and German, but very often three or even four languages. They just posted a job at our school for a teacher of English, German and Finnish. I don't even know if such a beast exists (of course I do know Finnish too and also German passably, but what's needed is 4 years of studies and a diploma in each to get the tenure)

So, if I lose this job, it'll surely be at minimum at least another 10 years, if ever, before I could find a similar position, and very unlikely it'd be where we live now. So I must do whatever it takes to keep the tenure; it was pretty much created for me having worked in the same place 10 years on and off and being really well liked by my bosses and the rest of the staff. It's a once in a lifetime job for me, because I was so dumb in my time to not take on any other languages, but instead some useless stuff like psychology and computer sciences. So that's something I need to be ultra secure about.

 

[Perfect Stranger]

Actually, St. Louis is one of the most dangerous cities in the country according to crime statistics. Check out the Golden Triangle in North Carolina. Jammed packed with high tech, chemical, medical research companies. And some of the best Universities in the country. Some of the friendliest people, most beautiful surroundings, close to mountains and ocean, and great food!

 

[gatorbrit]

I probably should mention the Triangle area of North Carolina. Home to Duke U, UNC, and NC State and numerous biotech industries. Apparently we have the highest percentage of PhDs per capita for a major metro area in the US. Its nice here as well. Schools are good and crime isn't too bad. Gets a bit warm in the summer, but the winters are fairly mild.

 

[ZMAN]

+1 on the Triad area. I lived in Greensboro off and on for about 6 months, and If I didn't have ties to Canada I WOULD be living there. Just about a perfect climate and decent folks.

 

[Tig]

That part of North Carolina is a great choice. You can take weekend trips to all kinds of beautiful parks and attractions. Unlike my part of the world, they have 4 real seasons.

 

[jpfeifer]

Hi Dee,

I don't know if you have considered the Southwestern US (Arizona), but there are some great advantages to living here if you can deal with the heat
- the cost of living is very low compared to most areas of the country
- crime is very low here in Arizona, compared to almost every other place I've lived, and very family friendly
- lots of outdoors activities, and mild winters (great hiking, camping, golfing, off-road recreation)
- the only downside is the hot/dry summers, but not so bad if you have a pool where you live, as so many people do here.

My daughter is attending the University of Arizona in Tucson which has some one of the best biomedical programs in the country.
We don't have an abundance of top-notch universities here as compared to the East Coast, though.

--Jim

 

[Duffy]

America

One consideration that might save you a lot of time and money would be to consider doing what many people from, say, Scandanavia, have done: they have settled in areas of America that closely replicate their native environments, or at least in some ways are similar.

I lived in Minnesota and many of the families came from Scandanavia and places like Poland. Supposedly this had something to do with their preference for the colder climate and the rich farming soil. The area was sparsely populated but still very green, unlike the mountain West and desert Southwest. Minnesota is called the land of ten thousand lakes and lives up to its name with lakes, rivers, and streams full of Walleye and Northern Pike, plus bass and an abundance of other great fish. There are also innumerable Whitetail Deer and beautiful forests full of Northern hardwoods and evergreens. The standard of living is very high and the cost of living is very moderate compared to either coast or the other big cities. This is a good place to raise kids. The University of Minnesota has a great medical center and the Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, Minnesota.

As you know, New York is very expensive and has its other environmental and social problems. The West Coast is very expensive in most parts. Denver is a great sprawling metropolis with a great medical center and the University of Colorado Medical School. Colorado is a very decent place to live, even in Denver and especially in the mountains if you can find employment. Eastern Colorado is part of the Great Plains and also a great place but employment opportunities may be a concern. Western Colorado is spectacular but again employment may be a concern.

The Lake Superior part of Minnesota you would probably like and the Great Lakes region is quite nice but many areas are overpopulated.

Central Pennsylvania, here, is a very nice area to raise kids and employment in the medical fields is very achievable. They are constantly recruiting doctors and medical professionals into the area with some very excellent incentives. It is mainly very rural, such as where we live, and there is a need for excellence among medical professionals. Being rural and even remote from any significantly big cities, many professionals prefer living in areas that offer a lot more social opportunities like entertainment, educational institutions of higher education offering advanced degrees, and so forth. There are some medical research centers here though, some of them claiming excellence. If you want to know more about specific opportunities you can let me know and I can send you some addresses where they are actively recruiting.

The National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland is an awesome medical research mega center, but it is located in one of the most expensive areas I can imagine living in. I have spent a lot of time there and around there and it is very expensive for sure, and the traffic is incredibly intense with a lot of bad drivers and many accidents. There is also a great deal of crime in the area even though there are lots and lots of cops of every type. The average person in the area, however, is relatively well educated when compared to many other areas. There are a lot of smart criminals there, if that makes sense. NYC has a lot of very smart criminals as well. I guess I can't leave out Philadelphia in this respect either. These places are somewhat of an anomaly in this respect I would suppose.

I would think that living in the South would be quite a stress on your family, the environmental factors being so dramatically different from what you are used to. I just returned from South Florida and South Carolina, places that I like a lot. I think I could live in South Carolina without much complaint. The Eastern part of SC is beautiful coastal jungle and the Western part is beautifully mountainous. The Central part is actually quite nice. There are medical centers as well, especially in Charleston. Savanah is just across the state line and is super beautiful.

It would probably be wise to expect any area in America to be expensive to live in. A significant family income would be necessary to maintain a high quality of living, most especially in some areas and probably surprisingly so in other areas. Some areas, like here, are very reasonable, safe, and very livable on a moderate family income. You have to search for places like this.

I hope some of these perspectives give you some insight that you may not already have gleaned.

Your plan to secure your career job in Finland is an uppermost concern, I'm sure, and definitely a super wise decision. Time waits for no one and ten years to possibly regain your status is a long time, especially at this stage of your life when your family has requirements that must be met.

From my viewpoint, a life without adventure is a wasted life. Everything could be all secure and comfortable and life could pass you by and you could find yourself someday standing there looking in the mirror, old and grey, suddenly realizing that life has passed you by, slipped thru your hands like sand thru an hour glass, unfulfilled and stranded. But this is just my vision of what could have been; maybe a dream or a shade, if I had not embarked on some adventures from which I always returned to a changed world.

 

[street music]

Perfect Stranger you hit it right , the area around Charlotte, or Winston Salem, NC would be choice if I left Kentucky, that being said, KY charges high tax on vehicles every year, not just when you purchase it and our gasoline taxes are crazy.

 

[deeaa]

Thanks everyone for the great tips! I'll go through them all with a lot of thought for sure, when we get to more exact planning shortly!

You have to remember that I'm used to very high cost of living, I think Finland is one of the most expensive countries to live in. Pretty much everything costs double it costs in the U.S. and housing ain't cheap. I'd think a mediocre house/apartment price would be usually over $3000 per each yd2 of living-floor space...plus income tax can get to be around 50% (like I pay 60% tax for extra work income) and everything you buy and sell has basically 22% VAT applied...gas prices have 70% tax on top of it, and cars are taxed at over 100% over factory price...so even if it might be expensive in the U.S. in total it will likely seem like dirt cheap for us.

That's the price we pay for free education and such...

 

[Eric]

Well, I suppose that opens up your options a bit. I can't imagine it's so open-ended for your wife that you could just pick a place and tell her to move there, right? Doesn't she want to do a post-doc under a specific PI? And doesn't she have a specialized field of expertise already that would limit her to a handful of people? I mean, there are neuroscience and biochem people anywhere, but they're usually into one specific area of study in my experience, and I would think that her research thus far would probably make the choices converge fairly quickly.

What's her thing, anyway? MPO or dopamine or something? Seems like those were the sexy topics back when I worked with more of those people.

 

[deeaa]

Yeah, certainly it can't be just anywhere, but I understand very very many universities might work. We'l have to see about it in more detail later. Currently she's studying Altzheimer, some drugs and their effects I understand.

 

[wingsdad]

Nobody's mentioned New England yet, Dee, so I'll suggest giving it a look, or more precisley, the greater Boston area. It's been a long time since I lived and worked there, but the proliferation of universities, med schools and hospitals -- many prestigious -- within about a 50 to 100-mile radius of Beantown, could offer a wide array of study and work possibilities.

The climate, topography and scenery might be more like home. There's 4 distinct seasons, for sure. Winter will put frost on your cajones from October to April, and if you're by the coast, you can bask in cloudy, rainy days 60% of the time. You could be within a couple of hours drive from great skiing in the mountains of Vermont or New Hampshire, the Atlantic Ocean and beaches up & down the coast and up into Maine offer you nice and brisk 68-degreee F water temps to refresh you from the humidity and air temps in the low 90's in August.

Cost of living? When I lived in the Boston and Worcester, Mass areas in the late 70's, it was known as 'Taxachussetts'...so if taxes don't scare you, you'll be right at home.

And then there's the cultural scene. The ethnic diversity and so many colleges fuel a thirst and support for creativity and the Fine Arts and a vibrant music scene in triangle from Boston to Hartford and New Haven, Connecticut, and after all, you'd still be close enough (3-hour drive from Boston, 90 minutes from New Haven) to explore New York City's scene without having to live there.

 

[deeaa]

Yeah, Boston is likely at the top of the list just now for us actually. Got a buddy there, and several people from our Uni have been there, currently too I understand.