I hope this isn't considered politics

[Eric]

...because that would get me a dead thread and wrist-slap...

An article on how to make our cities more sustainable and environmentally-friendly:

http://www.asla.org/ContentDetail.aspx?id=25268

This is really interesting IMO, because it's completely the opposite of how most people think, me included. Some of his ideas are pretty tough for me to swallow, but there's definitely a movement toward this way of thinking.

Thoughts?

 

[hubberjub]

I don't see how living an ecologically sustainable lifestyle could be considered politics. Thanks for that article. My wife (an environmental studies graduate) and I are big supporters of this type of lifestyle. Even though we live on a small city lot she manages to grow a good portion of our food. Through canning and proper cellaring techniques we are able to live on that throughout the year. We've definitely found a lot of everyday wisdom within the pages of Michael Pollan and Barbara Kingsolver books.

 

[Eric]

I don't see how living an ecologically sustainable lifestyle could be considered politics. Thanks for that article. My wife (an environmental studies graduate) and I are big supporters of this type of lifestyle. Even though we live on a small city lot she manages to grow a good portion of our food. Through canning and proper cellaring techniques we are able to live on that throughout the year. We've definitely found a lot of everyday wisdom within the pages of Michael Pollan and Barbara Kingsolver books.

Well, the whole anti-car-policy bits are something I'm pretty sure my dad (a staunch republican) would bristle at.

My wife-to-be is a landscape architect, hence the link. I'm on-board with this sort of thing, and I've realized the wisdom of this line of thinking, but I do think it's rather contrary to a lot of popular thinking. That alone speaks to the deep-seated nature of our culture and the challenge of realizing something like what he talks about.

I must say, whenever I go to NYC, I am relieved when I finally leave -- it's so intense and in-your-face, it can be a lot to handle. The part of this article I can't immediately accept is that sort of lifestyle, along with the whole it's-bad-to-want-to-escape part.

I think one's idea of normalcy can change quickly, which is how I try to think when I read about different ideas like this one.

 

[Retro Hound]

I could never live in a crowded city. I live in a small town where I bike or walk the 10 blocks to work most of time. Using the car instead of walking is habit for most of us, and a habit we need to change. My boss lives closer than I do and he drives to work!

 

[Eric]

I could never live in a crowded city. I live in a small town where I bike or walk the 10 blocks to work most of time. Using the car instead of walking is habit for most of us, and a habit we need to change. My boss lives closer than I do and he drives to work!

Yeah, the thing I take away from the article is that there's a lot of built-in car activity that we don't even realize. Without knowing you, I'd say there's a good chance that you still take the car to the grocery store.

Big cities can be significantly more tolerable when they are well designed, and that's the other big thing this article speaks to, or at least alludes to. I think it's possible to live in a dense area without feeling like a sardine, but it requires a shift in expectation (at least on my end).

If this sort of change (shift to high-density areas) ever happens, I don't think it will be an easy transition.

 

[tunghaichuan]

Well, the whole anti-car-policy bits are something I'm pretty sure my dad (a staunch republican) would bristle at.

Not to pick on your dad specifically as a lot of people think like this, but in essence the message here is: "f*ck everybody else, I've got mine." That kind of attitude was okay in previous decades when gas was a cheap as water and there weren't that many cars. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking has gotten us into the mess we're in right now.

I can't go any further down this path unless I go into politics and/or religion.

 

[Eric]

Not to pick on your dad specifically as a lot of people think like this, but in essence the message here is: "f*ck everybody else, I've got mine." That kind of attitude was okay in previous decades when gas was a cheap as water and there weren't that many cars. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking has gotten us into the mess we're in right now.

I can't go any further down this path unless I go into politics and/or religion.

I think you'd be preaching to the choir anyway, so no need. The hard part for me in terms of mindset is realizing how it needs to be and being the one to take the first step, even when nobody else is.

 

[tunghaichuan]

Here's something to consider: our cultural mythology.

Our cultural mythology is this: "the world is ours and we will do with it whatever we damn well please." And that includes depleting all of the natural resources and polluting it until it cannot sustain life.

The corollary to this is: "f*ck everybody else, I've got mine." We as human beings collectively own the earth, except that some of us own more than others.

It goes beyond religion/politics. It has been our underlying philosophy since the shift from humans as hunter-gatherer societies to agricultural societies roughly 10,000 years ago.

 

[Eric]

Here's something to consider: our cultural mythology.

Our cultural mythology is this: "the world is ours and we will do with it whatever we damn well please." And that includes depleting all of the natural resources and polluting it until it cannot sustain life.

The corollary to this is: "f*ck everybody else, I've got mine." We as human beings collectively own the earth, except that some of us own more than others.

It goes beyond religion/politics. It has been our underlying philosophy since the shift from humans as hunter-gatherer societies to agricultural societies roughly 10,000 years ago.

Yes -- I'm with you and have been for a while.

I'll put it this way: I don't think I've ever consciously thought the two things you mention, at least not in those terms. However, in the absence of articles or interviews like the one I posted, the built-in issues with our society (reliance on cars, low-density living impact on environment) would not regularly occur to me.

That's why I think it's important to re-frame and re-examine our societal culture: what is hardwired into our lives and taken for granted is often the biggest area for improvement. I'll bet most people don't consider the environmental impact they are having when the sit down in their car -- that's why it has become a problem.

 

[Retro Hound]

Without knowing you, I'd say there's a good chance that you still take the car to the grocery store.

Well, there is a store that we walk to for milk and bread, but with 4 boys, it takes more than an armload to bring home the groceries for the month. Or even the week! And yes, the cheapest store is all the way across town (10 minutes).

The first time I read about urban sprawl, the article never said why it was bad, it was just assumed that it was bad. It was in the Kansas City Star and was complaining about the size of the yards in the suburbs, but I was thinking, "What's wrong with a big yard?" We have to do more than just say "This is bad" we have to explain why in ways that impact people.

 

[Eric]

Well, there is a store that we walk to for milk and bread, but with 4 boys, it takes more than an armload to bring home the groceries for the month. Or even the week! And yes, the cheapest store is all the way across town (10 minutes).

The first time I read about urban sprawl, the article never said why it was bad, it was just assumed that it was bad. It was in the Kansas City Star and was complaining about the size of the yards in the suburbs, but I was thinking, "What's wrong with a big yard?" We have to do more than just say "This is bad" we have to explain why in ways that impact people.

Yup, and a good point brought up in the interview is that traditional environmentalism (e.g. escapism) can actually be counter-productive, because dense populations are the most efficient, in that they negate the need for cars.

I agree that there can be a lot of knee-jerk sentiments out there about why sprawl is bad, which makes me appreciate the ones with reason all the more. Having to drive to the grocery store isn't necessarily your fault -- it's just an example of the reliance on cars.

 

[deeaa]

"First, you have to create enough density to make transit, walking, and bicycling conceivable, and, second, you have to make driving sufficiently expensive, inconvenient, and unpleasant to force people to consider alternatives"

Well, that's what we have here, for sure even I, although it's -26 degrees outside, am just getting ready to cycle to work.

Good article. However, I'm one to promote cars - in a country like Finland, which is rather big when compared to, say, England, but has less population than London, a car is a must for many a use. For instance there is practically no way for me to visit my relatives around the country or my own cottage without a car. Simply can't have public transport to a gazillion directions. Even my own land properties have a distance of 200 miles between them at best...I own a couple of hectares of forest and a beach strip and some day a cabin up north next to my sister's cottage and land, and another 1-hectare plot plus a cottage much closer to this piece of land my house sits on in the city...can't reach either of those remote places without a car.