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I may never buy a used guitar again...

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Duff said:
As was said, industrialization in the developing world is an evolving process. But precedents have been set here in the US and in Europe and elsewhere that have resulted in standard operating procedures that ensure worker safety and health, and eliminate child labor, etc. It is not like WE have to reinvent the wheel. We already know what it is and choose to ignore its existence and exploit ripe labor markets that don't have environmental and health requirements that cost A LOT OF MONEY. It is a greed motivated type of thing.

First of all, let me just say that I am not now, nor have I ever been a union worker. That said, the labor unions had a lot to do with the worker standards we have now, including the safety standards. If (and it's a big if) China were to develop labor unions, they may see some progress on that front. In a repressive gov't such as theirs, that seems near impossible, but I have seen many thing happen in the last few decades that I thought were impossible. I hope for the sake of the people there, they do institute some national policy that is strictly enforced regarding worker safety and welfare. It could happen.
 
China and guitar mfg

Remember the Chinesse dude and the tank?

What ever happened to that guy? Anybody ever hear from him again?

Anyway, they are all communists; like one big union, right? Cleaning up these messed up factories and straightening out this criminal activity should be a short order for them.

Seriously though, my new Vox AC15c1 is a really nice China made amp. A lot of really really good products are coming out of China. Our Classic Vibes we love so much come from China. Whoever made these items are good workers that obviously take pride in their work and probably value their jobs.

There has to be mega money going back into China and a substantial proportion of that money has to be going back to the workers and people, in one way or another. Then again, there are SO MANY PEOPLE in China that mega amounts of money going into the economy probably is diluted very significantly, just by the sheer number of people living there and the massive superstructure of the country and the cost of maintaining it, even at a marginal level.

Maybe Syo knows if the factory owners are allowed to keep the vast majority of the profit or if there is a big stockholding class that benefits from the profits. Do the workers in some of the plants get to buy stock or are they given "x" amount of stocks. Do they have profit sharing in any of the plants? It is possible that there are incentives for excellence. Seeing so many excellent products coming out of China would seem to suggest that something is going right, at least in some places.
 
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Duff said:
Remember the Chinesse dude and the tank?

Of course. Tiananmen Square 1989. Protesters take to the streets of Beijing to mourn the death of Hu Yaobang, a Pro- Democracy campaigner. As with plenty of large public protests, all kinds of of other groups joined in as well and the protest was eventually put down violently by the military. The image you reference is, as far as I know, the only image (or one of very few at least) that came out of the whole event. It depicts an unknown man in a white shirt blocking the path of a PLA tank. I was in the very same spot only last year.

Duff said:
What ever happened to that guy? Anybody ever hear from him again?

Shortly after the iconic photograph was taken he was ushered back into the crowd by a small group. Friends? Concerned citizens? Secret Police? Nobody knows for sure, but as far as I can tell, he has never resurfaced.


Duff said:
Anyway, they are all communists; like one big union, right?

If you mean all of China, then yes. They run a single party system and the governing party is the Communist Party of China, making all of China a communist state.

Duff said:
Cleaning up these messed up factories and straightening out this criminal activity should be a short order for them.

I get where you're going with this, but I don't think anything is going to be that simple in a country of 1.3 billion people, single communist state or not.

To go completely and utterly off topic....

If you get the chance, Beijing is a great city to visit. For a city of some 22 million people I was amazed at how clean, slick, modern and organised it feels. (especially after experiencing what 18-20 million people in Cairo feels like.....) Not Tokyo slick by a long way, but impressive nonetheless.
 
Joke

I was joking that because they are communists, comparing it to a big union, looking out for the general welfare of all the population, particularly the working class person, is their main communist objective and alternative approach to government and economic distribution of wealth among the people.

I doubt that anything like that is happening. They have no power to protest or initiate workplace change and are probably dominated by an upper class of some type, probably not refered to as aristocrats, but the managerial elite or business owners or something of that sort that consolidate all of the decision making power and all other power. There is probably a HUGE group at the bottom of the socio-economic pyramid that don't have anything coming and live basically hand to mouth, with few, if any opportunities to move up the ladder of society. They are likely very passive and apathetic. Easy for the power brokers to manipulate in their ostensibly warped version of communism and capitalism.

Syo would know best about the demographics since he has seen the situation first hand, especially out of the cities in the rural industrial areas.
 
Boys boys boys... :offtopic

Besides we do not want the chinese government to attack us with their army of hackers.
 
SuperSwede said:
Boys boys boys... :offtopic

Besides we do not want the chinese government to attack us with their army of hackers.

I don't know what's worse. Being hit by hackers or getting busted by officer Swede...;)

But you make a valid point. Apologies for veering off the cliff. A cliff which by the way, has been moved here...

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?p=171573#post171573
 
SuperSwede said:
Boys boys boys... :offtopic

Besides we do not want the chinese government to attack us with their army of hackers.
Not only off topic but straying perilously close to a political discussion--and those are precluded by the Fret.net forum rules. Just sayin', guys....
 
Virgman said:
Those are very "good" fakes.

Unbelievable.

Unfortunately they are in fact getting harder to spot.

One dead giveaway on the "Gibsons"-- first, sfaik real Gibsons do not use scarf joints (see lower left corner) on necks to get the angled headstock:

2796.jpg


Also-- Gibby serials, generally, are pressed into the wood--they are not filled with paint or ink for contrast as above. On some historic models and on Les Paul Classics an inked serial is used-- but the above serial number does not match the type of inked serial. Plus, Gibson either impresses the serial number into the wood, OR inks it, but not both. The above appears to have been pressed in and then also filled with ink or paint for contrast.

Last, everyone should know the modern Gibson serialization code (inapplicable to LP Classics and custom shop/historic):

The pattern (to 2005) is as follows:
YDDDYRRR
YY is the production year
DDD is the day of the year
RRR is the factory ranking/plant designation number

After 2005 serial numbers went to 9 digits inserting a "batch" number in the 6 slot and bumping the "RRR" designation to slots 7 through 9.

Looking at the above faked example, first we know it cannot be a new Gibson because there are 8 digits-- which stopped in 2005. Even overlooking that, to determine date, we look at the first and fifth digit-- 00. So this "brand new" "Gibson" was made in the year 2000, ten years ago.

Homey don't play dat.
 
This was a Zak Wylde my friend took in on a Pawn. He gave the guy about 300 worth of goods back, no cash.
He thought he had a real one.
PA280021.jpg

PA280014.jpg

He ended up keeping it and put a set of active Emgs in it. It had covers over cheap asian HBs. No battery. The guy said it was worth 4000 but took the goods and left. LOL
 
ZMAN said:
PA280014.jpg

He ended up keeping it and put a set of active Emgs in it. It had covers over cheap asian HBs. No battery. The guy said it was worth 4000 but took the goods and left. LOL

Ouch. Headstock inlay hinky, printing on trussrod cover crooked, 3-screw cover. All signs.
 
I touched on this topic last month when I bought my last guitar . A colleague of mine who also runs a music shop bought a Les Paul Supreme for about $400 from made in china dot com , he compared this with his Studio and a mates` LP custom and they were blown away , forget the how to spot a fake on stuff on ebay this thing looked the real deal , I gave up after looking at 15 pages of fakes but there`s copies of '59 Teles cheaper than stock Squiers .
 
Stringtreat said:
Here is a great tool for running Fender serial numbers
http://www.guitardaterproject.org/fender.aspx
All of the serial numbers used on the fake junk page are mostly dated 2000 to 2002 built at the Corona plant.
I wonder what Fenders position on these fakes is.

If I were to take a wild guess, I doubt they like the idea much........
 
You know what these fakes would be good for? Movie props. They always use name brand guitars and basses in the movies, and the actors are seldom actually playing them. They never get close enough that they'd be spotted as fakes, probably.
 
FrankenFretter said:
You know what these fakes would be good for? Movie props. They always use name brand guitars and basses in the movies, and the actors are seldom actually playing them. They never get close enough that they'd be spotted as fakes, probably.

Now that would throw a big monkey wrench in the product placement gears, huh?:thwap
 
oldguy said:
Now that would throw a big monkey wrench in the product placement gears, huh?:thwap

Hmmm, I hadn't thought about that. They actually pay for product placement, don't they? I guess the prop idea wouldn't work in that aspect.

Pete Townshend could keep some around to smash, if he still did that.

pete_townshend_100.jpg
 
Wow, this thread of discussions has been very interesting to say the least!

Our very own Commodore64 was a recent victim of these counterfeits which shows what a scam they are.

I'd suggest that they be used for firewood, but I think the finishes may make the air a bit toxic.:nope

Even if these fakes were high-quality, I think the whole idea is wrong and they should be shut down.

With the prevalence of these fakes around, it really puts the buyer in a precarious position when buying a used instrument. I think a fair amout of due dilligence may be needed in a used instrument purchase these days.
 
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