Lance Armstrong in ruins?

[Robert]

It will be another Hollywood movie out of this I bet. Of course he is guilty. I'm surprised anyone doubted that. What may be worse are the methods by which he kept people from spilling the truth.

 

[Spudman]

It was a fantastic run while it lasted.

 

[piebaldpython]

Here's the thing that rankles me no end about Lance. It's bad enough that he LIED for years about his drug use. But it's something totally different in that he won judgments in court against those who accused him of doping (libel/slander cases) and he ruined some other people (teammate/competitors) along the way for the same reasons too.

As I understand it, the people he won judgments against have no recourse at this time because the statute of limitations ran out.

How the heck is that fair?

 

[Robert]

It's not fair, that's for sure...

But this whole story will make for an entertaining Hollywood movie!
Grab yer popcorn

unch::munch:

I just read this today:

Oprah Winfrey is confirming that Lance Armstrong came clean to her about his use of performance-enhancing drugs during their 2½ hour interview Monday.

She said the cyclist was "forthcoming" as she asked him in detail about doping allegations that followed him throughout his seven Tour de France victories.


Winfrey interviewed Armstrong at a hotel in downtown Austin.

The session was to be broadcast on Thursday, but Winfrey said it will now run in two parts over two nights because there is so much material.

The confession was a stunning reversal for a proud athlete and celebrity who sought lavish praise in the court of public opinion and used courtrooms to punish his critics.

 

[Bookkeeper's Son]

I find it interesting that so many have expressed shock about this, when it's simply another example of getting ahead in any way possible, which seems to be a constant in an over-competitive world. Whether it be sports, business, politics, personal, whatever, morality and ethics are often non-existent, ignored or overridden in pursuit of "success". Right, wrong or otherwise, it's a fact - and only the very naive are the least bit surprised. For every Lance Armstrong or Mark McGwire who've been caught, there are dozens who haven't and won't ever be.

Rules, drug tests, etc. give the illusion of purity, but it's still just an illusion. And it's a witch hunt, too - somehow related to the general anti-drug hysteria of the drug war, another fruitless endeavor. It's kinda weird how some performance-enhancing drugs, like lidocaine and cortisone are OK, while others are not.

 

[Robert]

This is very true. Well said - I completely agree.

You guys should read this article about Dentist Kip Litton http://www.examiner.com/article/cheaters-never-win-the-bizarre-story-of-marathon-runner-kip-litton
It's a bizarre story!

In all areas of life, there are cheaters. I'm sure there plenty that never get caught.

I find it interesting that so many have expressed shock about this, when it's simply another example of getting ahead in any way possible, which seems to be a constant in an over-competitive world. Whether it be sports, business, politics, personal, whatever, morality and ethics are often non-existent, ignored or overridden in pursuit of "success". Right, wrong or otherwise, it's a fact - and only the very naive are the least bit surprised. For every Lance Armstrong or Mark McGwire who've been caught, there are dozens who haven't and won't ever be.

 

[Tig]

The only surprise here is Armstrong admitting to anything. Inside the competitive cycling community, many of us suspected or knew that he and so many others were doping. It was a known reality that irritated many, especially having to watch Lance destroy anyone who challenged him while he paraded his lies. The rest of the world didn't want to hear anything negative, so many of us were ostracized for even bringing it up.

This is the beginning of a long awaited justice for the former teammates he has slandered and hurt. I feel for them. I also feel for the many people who have looked up to Armstrong as a roll model, be it cancer patients or young athletes.

 

[Jipes]

My vision of the very late confession of Amstrong is that he just wants revenge he will tell what many people in the business help him and allow him to get doped without being catch positive and I guess some people in the UCI are already very very nervous. Despite this sudden effort to be honest I don't believe that he is really sorry for what he has done during his whole carrier specially all the guys he "shoot down" in the media like Christophe Basson for example. the fact that doping is more and more widely used is not to my eyes a valid excuse to try to make money while destroying other Men's life even if it's a worldwide business :mad

 

[Eric]

The only surprise here is Armstrong admitting to anything. Inside the competitive cycling community, many of us suspected or knew that he and so many others were doping. It was a known reality that irritated many, especially having to watch Lance destroy anyone who challenged him while he paraded his lies. The rest of the world didn't want to hear anything negative, so many of us were ostracized for even bringing it up.

This is the beginning of a long awaited justice for the former teammates he has slandered and hurt. I feel for them. I also feel for the many people who have looked up to Armstrong as a roll model, be it cancer patients or young athletes.

Hi Tig-

I'm not too heavily involved in the whole scandal, but after reading this thread I will give props to you for standing firm in your assertions about Armstrong. I never cared enough to really give him a fair shot at innocence, but I think you've been more than fair in your information-gathering. I just wanted to say that you deserve some credit for holding your ground.

 

[Tig]

Hi Tig-

I'm not too heavily involved in the whole scandal, but after reading this thread I will give props to you for standing firm in your assertions about Armstrong. I never cared enough to really give him a fair shot at innocence, but I think you've been more than fair in your information-gathering. I just wanted to say that you deserve some credit for holding your ground.

Wow, thanks, Eric!

I've had mixed feelings about Lance for some time now. I never wanted to believe that he was mixed up in anything at first. Even if he and everyone were clean, he would likely have won all or most or the 7 TdF's because he is a naturally gifted athlete with an incredible drive. That drive comes from his type double-A personality, which also makes him unbearable in person.

His support for cancer patients has been beyond admirable. I hope the world remembers him for this if nothing else.

What always made me and so many others angry is how he treated so many people who challenged him on the PED allegations. Civil cases were lost by some, and others had their careers lost because of his aggressive attacks.

 

[R_of_G]

At this point I pretty much see Lance Armstrong as a terrible person that raised a lot of money for cancer research. That act was truly worthwhile regardless of how ethically bankrupt he appears to be otherwise. It's mostly the way he destroyed people's lives and careers sticking to his lies over the years. Perhaps now he can raise money to make up for what he did to all of them.

 

[marnold]

At this point I pretty much see Lance Armstrong as a terrible person that raised a lot of money for cancer research. That act was truly worthwhile regardless of how ethically bankrupt he appears to be otherwise. It's mostly the way he destroyed people's lives and careers sticking to his lies over the years. Perhaps now he can raise money to make up for what he did to all of them.

Except I read a big investigative article showing how little of the money that is raised actually goes to research.

I was a Lance defender for the most part. Now I feel like an idiot.

 

[Tig]

Except I read a big investigative article showing how little of the money that is raised actually goes to research.

I was a Lance defender for the most part. Now I feel like an idiot.

Live Strong was focused more on cancer patient support than research.

Don't feel bad for believing in someone that by all appearance, did great things in so many different levels. Honest people expect honesty in others. It hurts, but maintaining faith does that sometimes.

____________________________

The Oprah interview was done really well. They certainly prepared her for it.

Lance was open and answered most of the questions with honesty. He wisely avoided slandering anyone along the way. "The truth shall set you free"

 

[Zip]

I live near the Hincapie's. A really great family. George and Lance have been friends since they were teenagers. George rode on all 7 of Lance's Tour wins. George is one of the reasons Lance won number 7, in fact. When he said 'Yes, Lance dopes.' that was all I needed to hear. He's not a liar.

 

[Tig]

I live near the Hincapie's. A really great family. George and Lance have been friends since they were teenagers. George rode on all 7 of Lance's Tour wins. George is one of the reasons Lance won number 7, in fact. When he said 'Yes, Lance dopes.' that was all I needed to hear. He's not a liar.

In the interview, Lance expressed that George's testimony carried the most weight, as he was so credible. When George testified about his and Lance's doping, the case was complete and he knew there was no reason to fight the charges.

I met George at the US Junior Track Nationals when he was still an amateur. He was a friendly, confident kid that everyone knew would go on to great things. He and a few other juniors arrived early and raced in our weekly track races. I drew him in a matched sprint race where he blew my doors off completely. I hope he continues to do well with the family clothing company.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Hincapie was my favorite of the Postal Team era (and Discovery) I distinctly remember a cam on a lead car ahead of Hincapie hammering over some cobbles in Belgium. I can't remember what year, leading his team and Lance on to a victorious day. The look of determination on his face as he lead the charge was super inspiring to me. To me, he was always the hero of those teams. I loved watching those races, always knew Lance was kind of an ***, kept my mind open on the doping, and enjoyed the show. Kinda sad that that whole era of racing is so tainted now. Lance was more an ******* about it, but seems like near all the top competitors and teams were involved too.

Of course lies and cheating is wrong, and unfortunately a whole lot of athletes did that in many sports. Marion Jones, who seemed so wholesome and such a good role model, broke my heart when she was caught. Where I really break with Lance was how he treated others that challenged him. People have long memories, and apparently he was much more of a jerk than many caught in the apparently slimy business of bike racing back then. The cheating was a sad business altogether. Unfortunately, Lance distinguished himself by conduct beyond the cheating that others did.

 

[NWBasser]

He's still tops in my book and over the years he's passed all the tests. That's final to me. I stand by Lance no matter whether he did or not. He's a champion and this is a stupid witch hunt.

What are your thoughts now Spud?

 

[Spudman]

He's still the best athlete in this arena in my opinion. He just happens to have very low moral standards and a total lack of empathy. Not a great guy, but still a great physical specimen. Contador, De Lucia and others were also doping and they still couldn't beat him.

So, I do appreciate what he accomplished racing, how he brought the sport to the front for Americans, who are the citizens most able to afford to participate in the sport but don't, but I don't begrudge him for doping. I do think the way he treated people was deplorable.

 

[R_of_G]

Except I read a big investigative article showing how little of the money that is raised actually goes to research.

Interesting. I will have to read up on that. Thanks.

So, I do appreciate what he accomplished racing, how he brought the sport to the front for Americans, who are the citizens most able to afford to participate in the sport but don't...

Of course, now there's a large percentage of Americans who knew little or nothing about the sport and now think of it as the sport where everybody cheats.

 

[Spudman]

Of course, now there's a large percentage of Americans who knew little or nothing about the sport and now think of it as the sport where everybody cheats.

A lot of them did/do cheat at the pro level, but that doesn't mean that anyone else participating at the local level has to.

 

[Tig]

It would be catastrophic if the NFL tested at the same level as cycling, which random tests out of season. I remember the commissioner saying he "won't let the players become pin cushions" (blood tests in place of urine tests). Ah, but that's a new thread...

 

[R_of_G]

A lot of them did/do cheat at the pro level, but that doesn't mean that anyone else participating at the local level has to.

Of course not. The more people publicly condemning the cheaters should hopefully carry the message to the lower levels of the sport.

And Tig is absolutely right, if the NFL had a similar drug-testing regime in place, there'd be no season because too many guys would be suspended. Perhaps the cyclists just need better collective bargaining?

 

[Spudman]

This doesn't affect the general public the same way that continually testing football players would...because the only people that give a crap about cycling is cyclists. :rollover Did you know that the highest paid and most highly regarded professional athlete in the early 1900s was a cyclist? I would have loved to be competing back then...uh, knowing what I know now.:socool

 

[Tig]

I read the biography of Marshall "Major" Taylor, the first pro black athlete during that time. I'm not sure how well he was paid, but he dominated the sport.

 

[Dragon Soaring]

Lance and team did what they had to do to win. It is nothing more nothing less.

He benifited from the most succesful doping program in sports history.

Like it or not US Postal/Discovery kicked the worlds collective buts 7 times during what was/is probably the most doped sporting contest

 

[Spudman]

I agree.

Lance and team did what they had to do to win. It is nothing more nothing less.

He benifited from the most succesful doping program in sports history.

Like it or not US Postal/Discovery kicked the worlds collective buts 7 times during what was/is probably the most doped sporting contest

 

[R_of_G]

Lance and team did what they had to do to win. It is nothing more nothing less.

He benifited from the most succesful doping program in sports history.

Like it or not US Postal/Discovery kicked the worlds collective buts 7 times during what was/is probably the most doped sporting contest

I think that'd be fair if Armstrong didn't deny it so vehemently for so long.

If the contention is "everybody cheats, we just did it better" than he shouldn't spend a decade trashing the lives of anyone who was telling a truth you suggest he should be proud of. He should have thanked those people for helping the public see what a phenomenal success he was at cheating.

 

[Tig]

You crystallized my thoughts.

 

[Robert]

Crystallized my thoughts too.