Looking for a neck pickup -- advice wanted

[Eric]

Hi all.

On my new-to-me Godin LG Signature, it's supposed to come with an SD Jazz in the neck and an SD Custom Custom in the bridge. I'm pretty sure the Jazz pup was filched by a previous owner. I tried adjusting the pickup height to correct some of the neck muddiness, but didn't have much luck. I was OK with it as is until I played it in practice last night, and *barf*. The neck pup was muck city.

So the question: what's a good neck pickup to get, provided I keep the Custom Custom in the bridge (which I think sounds pretty decent)? If I limit myself to Seymour Duncan, it seems like the main options are the 59, Pearly Gates, Jazz, and Alnico II Pro. I'm not sure about the 59, since I think it has a single wire and the guitar uses a coil split of the neck and bridge pups in positions 2 and 4 (i.e. I'm not sure if the wiring of the 59 would allow to route it for a coil split).

Any input from you guys? I'm also open to other brands, but I figure if I'm keeping the bridge (which is my tentative plan), it might pair best with another SD pickup.

For style, I tend to play rock-type stuff, anywhere from classic rock to modern rock, but usually not too over-the-top. I like the neck pickup to be something that works on softer/slower songs, blends in easily while strumming, and does a good job on sustained notes when arpeggiating. Clarity while remaining soft/warm (i.e. not too biting) are probably key. Also, pairing with the bridge to make a usable middle position on the guitar is absolutely key. I use the middle position most of the time, so it's important to have that be something that sounds good.

Looking forward to some input!

 

[Jx2]

I sure wish I knew what the pick up was in the neck of my Epi LP, its a Duncan but without removing it I have no idea how to tell what it is. I know its got exactly what your describing. Honestly if I had to guess I would go with a Alinco II based on a almost dead match to Slash's tone. Its just a little off and I do mean a little.

 

[marnold]

Hmmm. I really like the Jazz in my Dinky. You can get a '59 with a four-conductor setup. I've never used one but a lot of people seem to like them. I will say that my Jazz tended to get muddy as you roll off the volume. A treble bleed mod took care of that.

 

[Eric]

Well, I could probably get anything and be happy with it. It's so hard to know without really having it and trying it in the guitar itself. Right now I'd say my list looks like this:

1. Jazz
2. Alnico II Pro
3. 59
4. Pearly Gates

 

[hubberjub]

I have SD 59's in one of my Heritage 150s. It a decent traditional pickup but it's a little muddy for my tastes. I would go with either the 59 or a Jazz because I don't really care for higher output pickups such as the Alnico 2 or the Pearly Gates. If you were to venture outside the SD world, I would recommend the DiMarzio Virtual PAF (if you can find it) or it's replacement, the Air Classic (I think). Traditional sound with a little more clarity. I've got Virtual PAFs in my Gibson Les Paul and it was a dramatic improvement over the stock 490 series pickups that came in it.

 

[FrankenFretter]

If you want that sweet neck pickup sound, I'd suggest something AlNiCo II or IV. I've heard really good things about the Tonerider pickups as well. Is your neck pickup covered, or open coil? Just curious.

You could always go with a GFS Mean 90, too. It's a P90 in a full humbucker sized pickup. Just another option to consider.

 

[Eric]

The pickup is covered, and I'd like to have the replacement be covered too. I'm just not sure how each pickup behaves or what its relative output is. For instance, I didn't know that the pearly gates or alnico ii pros were hotter.

I'll keep the DiMarzios in mind too.

 

[kidsmoke]

I have a 59 paired with a Custom Custom in my Idol. Washburn uses that pairing extensively in their Custom Shop mahogany body guitars.

I absolutely LOVE the neck p'up in this guitar. I have it split as well, and get dramatic variation with it. This is a mahogany body, maple cap, set neck guitar, similar to yours, but for the cavity.

 

[Eric]

I have a 59 paired with a Custom Custom in my Idol. Washburn uses that pairing extensively in their Custom Shop mahogany body guitars.

I absolutely LOVE the neck p'up in this guitar. I have it split as well, and get dramatic variation with it. This is a mahogany body, maple cap, set neck guitar, similar to yours, but for the cavity.

Hmm, well that's good to know. Every new post seems to be adding new info and refining my search, which I guess is exactly how it's supposed to work.

I know the original config in this one was supposedly Jazz/Custom Custom, so I guess they both work in that combo. I wish I knew exactly what the real-world difference was in each of them so that I could make a decent decision. The SD chart is mildly useful, but it doesn't exactly make my decision for me.

BTW, that's one purdy guitar!

 

[Tig]

Cr@p! I was on the verge of buying an Agile and you posted your Washburn Idol! I forgot how much I like these, so in it goes to my very short list. :drool:
I found a few lightly used WI66PRO's for under $500... One just might take my heart...

:hungry
· Mahogany body · Bound, carved flame maple top
· Mahogany set neck
· Fingerboard radius 14"
· Nut width: 43mm
· Bound rosewood fingerboard
· Bound headstock
· Pearl wing inlays on fingerboard
· Seymour Duncan® '59 reissue pickup in the neck
· Seymour Duncan® Custom Custom pickup in bridge
· 3 way toggle Switch
· Speed knobs
· Exclusive VCC control
· Tune-o-matic bridge with stop tailpiece
· Exclusive Grover® 18:1 gear ratio tuners
· Buzz Feiten Tuning System™
· Color: Flame Honey Burst
· Gigbag: GB4 Included

 

[kidsmoke]

Cr@p! I was on the verge of buying an Agile and you posted your Washburn Idol! I forgot how much I like these, so in it goes to my very short list. :drool:

I highly recommend them Tig. For the record, Honeyburst is a fairly common finish on those, but not so with the tobaccoburst. Don't know if I've ever seen a WI66 in tb. I'd jump all over that!

But to the point, Washburn does pair those p'ups extensively, and design them for splitting, so, Eric, I think it might be worth a try. You can find 'em very reasonably online, as well.

I have another 335 style Washburn (HB35) with a 25 year old Seymour Duncan MJ wound JB in the bridge, and I love it. The neck p'up is stock, falling apart and needs to come out, and I considered the Pearly Gates just to have different guitars with variety and maybe a little heat, but I like the 59N so much in the Idol, I'm tempted to repeat.

And watching the Freddie King vids on that other thread has me wanting to get all I can out of that HB35.

Keep us posted Eric.

 

[hubberjub]

Tig, keep your eye out. You'd be surprised how cheap USA made Washburns can go for. I can't really speak for their imports but the USAs are top notch.

 

[Eric]

I listened to the clips on the website, compared specs and all, and it's really fricking hard for me to tell a difference between the 4 pickups in question, honestly. I'll probably just end up with whichever I can get for cheapest.

 

[kidsmoke]

Tig, keep your eye out. You'd be surprised how cheap USA made Washburns can go for. I can't really speak for their imports but the USAs are top notch.

:thumbsup

I had a shop owner tell me that Washburns Custom shop in Mundelein (Chicago) puts PRS, Gibson and Fender to shame. Keep in mind they build Parkers and Moog as well. The guy in charge cut his teeth at Gibson in Nashville decades ago.

check out this current listing (not affilitated in ANY way, just gravitate to the sheer beauty naturally), not cheap by any stretch, but absolutely gorgeous. And to make it relevant, it's equipped with 59/CC pairing.

 

[Eric]

Huh. Well, tonight I pulled the pickups and...surprise. They're both what they should be: Jazz and Custom Custom. I guess I'll futz with it some more and maybe replace it anyway. The latest input I got is that a Seth Lover would probably clean up better.

I feel like there's a lesson in all of this about not making presumptions based on name, but I don't feel like teaching myself a lesson just yet.

 

[wingsdad]

... I like the neck pickup to be something that works on softer/slower songs, blends in easily while strumming, and does a good job on sustained notes when arpeggiating. Clarity while remaining soft/warm (i.e. not too biting) are probably key. Also, pairing with the bridge to make a usable middle position on the guitar is absolutely key. I use the middle position most of the time, so it's important to have that be something that sounds good....

...The latest input I got is that a Seth Lover would probably clean up better. ...

I have the SH55N Seth Lover in the neck of my G&L ASAT ClassicBluesboy. Alnico 2, NOT wax-potted...so it could tend to be 'microphonic'; described as 'warm', 'soft attack'....blah, blah, blah. Bottom line: It's a repro of Lover's original '55 PAF bucker, an 'old school' humbucker, not a supercalifragilisticexpialidotious hopped up hot rod. Some might say the bottom end with a Lover is a bit muddy, or 'loose', while the 59, a repro version of the 4 -year newer 'improved' 59 PAF (stronger Alnico 5 bar mag , wax-potted) has a 'tighter', stronger bottom end, like the mids are scooped. Lower output than the 59 by nature of its weaker Alnico 2 bar magnet. the Lover is definitely clean, and pairs well with a hot, bright bridge pup or in a bright wood guitar -- which the G&L MFD single coil in the ASAT (maple neck, swamp ash body) surely is...when played as you like in a middle position (both pups).

Since I also have a Wash Idol WI66 with that 59/SH11 Custom Custom config, that set pairs well, too.

Which of those 2 guitars are more like your Godin?

Since you obviously do your due diligence (homework), Eric, in researching before you decide, you may have found in the Duncan site that it suggests a Lover pairs well with a Custom Custom. But in what type of guitar?

The hardest part of all this input is it's all hypothetical and essentially poppycock; anyone can subjectively describe how pickups sound & what they like, etc...but you won't really know til you have the pups in your guitar playing thru your amp.

 

[Ch0jin]

For what it's worth I have the SD '59 in the neck of one of my Maton's and I love it in that guitar. Mine is uncovered and not coil tapped, but I have no desire at all to change it. Great PU.

However the unfortunate reality is as wingsdad described it. You just got to try as many as you can and see what floats your particular boat. I just chimed in to say the '59 is a good PU. Might not suit your style or guitar, only you can ultimately decide, but it's still a good PU and worth considering

 

[Eric]

I have the SH55N Seth Lover in the neck of my G&L ASAT ClassicBluesboy. Alnico 2, NOT wax-potted...so it could tend to be 'microphonic'; described as 'warm', 'soft attack'....blah, blah, blah. Bottom line: It's a repro of Lover's original '55 PAF bucker, an 'old school' humbucker, not a supercalifragilisticexpialidotious hopped up hot rod. Some might say the bottom end with a Lover is a bit muddy, or 'loose', while the 59, a repro version of the 4 -year newer 'improved' 59 PAF (stronger Alnico 5 bar mag , wax-potted) has a 'tighter', stronger bottom end, like the mids are scooped. Lower output than the 59 by nature of its weaker Alnico 2 bar magnet. the Lover is definitely clean, and pairs well with a hot, bright bridge pup or in a bright wood guitar -- which the G&L MFD single coil in the ASAT (maple neck, swamp ash body) surely is...when played as you like in a middle position (both pups).

Since I also have a Wash Idol WI66 with that 59/SH11 Custom Custom config, that set pairs well, too.

Which of those 2 guitars are more like your Godin?

Since you obviously do your due diligence (homework), Eric, in researching before you decide, you may have found in the Duncan site that it suggests a Lover pairs well with a Custom Custom. But in what type of guitar?

The hardest part of all this input is it's all hypothetical and essentially poppycock; anyone can subjectively describe how pickups sound & what they like, etc...but you won't really know til you have the pups in your guitar playing thru your amp.

I'd say the Idol is probably more similar.

I think I'm going to spend some more time trying to get this current config to work, since at least now I know that it's not some garbage pickup that was swapped out. Yeah I know...use your ears and what not, but at least my paranoia is gone.

I talked it over at my lesson last night, and my teacher (the one who recommended a Seth Lover) said that it might be that I haven't quite adapted to the sound of this guitar yet, as I've used my Agile so much prior to procuring the Godin. I thought that was a fair point.

Anyway, much appreciated on the differences between the 59 and SL.

 

[sumitomo]

I like the JB in the neck and the Pearly Gates in the bridge.Sumi

 

[Eric]

I like the JB in the neck and the Pearly Gates in the bridge.Sumi

Really?? Wow, that's a config I've never heard of before.

 

[sumitomo]

That's what's in my Tele and coil splitters,been that way since mid 90's.Billy Gibbons.Sumi

 

[kidsmoke]

That's what's in my Tele and coil splitters,been that way since mid 90's.Billy Gibbons.Sumi

Wouldn't that essentially mimic the PGN/PGB pairing? Not sure what the magnet/output difference is in the SH4(JB) and a PGN....off to the Duncan forum with me....

Edit.
Ok, I was wrong. The JB(and the 59) is a alnico V while the PG's are alnico II, so there are definitely differences.

Interesting stuff. I'm still trying to select a p'up for my semi neck as well, and I've been considering Gibson p'ups as well, the 57 and the BurstBucker 1. The press indicates that the difference is the winding. The BB is wound with different wind counts on the bobbin, creating bite, while the 57 is even counts, creating a smoother tone. And they're both alnico II.

Another interesting fact, the 59, 57 and BB's are all looking too mimic PAF tone, but the 59 is alnico V while the others are alnico II, like a PAF.

whatever.....

 

[sumitomo]

I really have nothing to compare it to other than I like what I hear,and it sounds REAL good through the Little Lanlei.Sumi

 

[Duffy]

Neck pup.

I've got the Custom Custom bridge and the 59 neck Seymours, uncovered in a Fender Tele and the combination in that guitar is incredible, pure great tone.

I have a JB bridge and a Jazz neck in a LP and it is great but I like the sound of the 59 neck and JB bridge in another LP I have. The 59 seems to sound more articulate, probably because it is supposed to be based upon an improved pickup design over the Jazz. The Jazz is staying there though, for now; but a JB neck pup might go real well with that JB bridge pup in my LP. I'll have to think about this one. The JB neck pup is no where near the output of the JB bridge pup, but they are designed to go real well together.

You see the Custom Custom bridge with the 59 neck a lot in SD fitted guitars. Maybe the Canadians put the Jazz in the neck because it is a semi hollow and thought this would flow into the hollow body jazz guitar tradition . . .

I would go with a 59 based on my experience and the proven combination, but I wouldn't rule out putting in a JB neck pup as an experiment - an expensive experiment. If it's anything like the bridge version it will sound great, articulate, and powerful.

I'm finding I like to use the neck pickup in my LP's, SG's, and other HB guitars. This is something I have been liking a lot only lately. I get a smoother, rounder sound with less bite. I still like to hit the bridge for a lot of lead lines though.

 

[Eric]

You see the Custom Custom bridge with the 59 neck a lot in SD fitted guitars. Maybe the Canadians put the Jazz in the neck because it is a semi hollow and thought this would flow into the hollow body jazz guitar tradition . . .

Just one note here...

My guitar (the Godin LG Signature) is not a semi-hollow guitar. It's a solid-body mahogany guitar. Perhaps you're confusing it with TK's Washburn?

Regardless, I like the Jazz for now, but would probably look in the direction of a Seth Lover or Pearly Gates if I was to replace it.

 

[Duffy]

Neck pup.

Both good choices.

I thought you had a semi Godin. Definitely got that mixed up.

Heard that solid body was a real nice guitar. How do you like it compared to your awesome Agile?

 

[Tig]

Regardless, I like the Jazz for now, but would probably look in the direction of a Seth Lover or Pearly Gates if I was to replace it.

Earlier this year I listened to all the different audio demo's on the Seymour Duncan site, kinda' like you did. I even did blind tests to see which ones I liked the most in both bridge and neck versions. The Pearly Gates and the Seth Lover neck pickups came out on top, but I forgot which sounded better to me now. As you know, the differences are subtle!

Now that I have several hours on the new Washburn with Custom-Custom/59 pickups, I really love what I'm hearing. Even Mrs. Tig (who refers to each guitar by color) noticed how good the new guitar sounded last night. Both pickups are giving me the exact magic tone I've been seeking, so they stay!

 

[Eric]

Heard that solid body was a real nice guitar. How do you like it compared to your awesome Agile?

I really like it. You know how, when you play one guitar a lot, you get to know it, and your ears and fingers adjust to it? There was a point after I got the Godin where I was so used to the Agile, everything else seemed a little off. To counteract that, I've been playing only the Godin or my acoustic to sort of cleanse my palette.

I like the longer scale length on the Godin, as well as the contoured body and upper-fret access. The pickups work well so far, but the guitar hasn't really been through the wringer of playing a whole ton with others at high volumes, so I can't say definitively just yet.

Overall, I like the design, features, and playability of the Godin better. How it fits and sounds and grows on me long-term will take a little more time to figure out.

 

[Duffy]

Eric, I really dig my Agile AL 3100 top/bottom bound body. It is equal to my Epi LP's definitely. I like the big neck and I usually like slim necks. I have, however, been playing my Epi stock SG's exclusively for a week or so since I got the Faded SG - awesome deal. I compare it very favorably A/B'd to my Epi '66 copy SG. I'm playing the '66 copy now. The Agile is waiting patiently on standby though - a really great guitar.

 

[otaypanky]

Eric, I'd suggest before you change pickups, what kind of cable are you using?
I have learned that a low capacitance cable can make all the difference in being able to clean up a humbucker when you roll down on your volume pot. Also there's a lot to gain with some good wiring, the pots and caps in it are really key to what you get out of it, no matter what the pickups are. Good pickups can sound pretty poor with a higher capacitance cable and less than great wiring.
I have also gone to a 50's style wiring in a few of my Les Pauls. With 50's style wiring the tone pots take some gain away as you roll down and you actually get the cleanest and most airy sound when the volume and tones are rolled off a bit. They become very interactive in a different way than modern style wiring. Seymour Duncan's website probably shows the two wiring schemes..