Nfl 2010

[Eric]

I know that I wouldn't use Vick as a gimmick player for a "package of downs" like Reid used him until Kolb went down. Vick plays best when he's out there down after down. He's like a hockey goaltender that needs to face a few shots before he's really "ready". Vick can't turn on and off what makes him special by flipping a switch.

I think the main downside of the substitutions is for the primary QB, not for Vick. Vick can't read a defense well enough to be an effective passer, so his main threat is as a runner. I'd say that's the sort of skillset that is well-suited to pop in and out of a game. The problem is that your main QB never develops a rhythm in that scenario.

 

[R_of_G]

It appeared to me that Vick was having much more success once he was the primary QB then when he was the "wildcat" guy. I agree that his primary weapon is the run, but he still has a solid NFL arm. Not saying I would start him over a healthy Kolb, yet, but I think he's more dangerous when he's out there every down instead of sporadically which tips the defense that it's likely to be a running play.

 

[Commodore 64]

Kolb is the next Scott Mitchell. A backup who had a few good games, and then everyone thought he was Joe Montana.

I thought McNabb looked pretty young and limber yesterday. I'll never understand the Phillly fans, *****ing and complaining that they *only* got to the playoffs. I'd take Andy Reid over the Cleveland coaching carousel, although I seem to be one of the minority who likes Mangini.

 

[Eric]

he's out there every down instead of sporadically which tips the defense that it's likely to be a running play.

Yup, I agree with that, and that's a good point.

 

[piebaldpython]

I thought McNabb looked pretty young and limber yesterday. I'll never understand the Phillly fans, *****ing and complaining that they *only* got to the playoffs. I'd take Andy Reid over the Cleveland coaching carousel, although I seem to be one of the minority who likes Mangini.

Yeah, McNabb looked good and spry yesterday. He dropped some poundage during the off-season instead of insisting that he bulk-up like he did with the IGGLES.

As to we Philly fans..........it's not just about the playoffs. His demeanor drove us nuts for 11 years. He's fumble or throw an INT and he's on the sideline having laughs with guys. How about showing he gives a crap??? He had talent up the wazoo......but he was stubborn and bull-headed as could be about things (like his conditioning). He was in great shape with us.....for a Fullback though. It slowed him down considerably.

As to REID....he stinks up the joint terribly. We have had a good amount of talent throughout the years, but his brain-dead decisions have exasperated us to no end.

As to the Browns......I feel your pain brother. There was a time where we had our own moron-of-the-year for coaches too.....until we got a hold of the bombastic Buddy Ryan. He was a loose cannon but he coached our D well and such.

 

[Eric]

I thought McNabb looked pretty young and limber yesterday. I'll never understand the Phillly fans, *****ing and complaining that they *only* got to the playoffs. I'd take Andy Reid over the Cleveland coaching carousel, although I seem to be one of the minority who likes Mangini.

I get what you're saying. Reid has built a successful program, and McNabb was a great QB while he was here. The thing is...try to imagine that the Browns are loaded with talent. Favored to win the Superbowl. They mow down competition during the regular season

But...then the star QB wets the bed during a crucial playoff game, starts playing like ***, blames it on his teammates and/or not being supported by the team/city/fans/players, and never seems to mind almost getting there but never reaching the top. Oh, and he reminds you of every single way in which he ever felt mistreated, by a city and a team that cater to him. Also, this QB goes and *****es to national media outlets all of the time.

Take that and repeat 3-4 times. Add in the wasted talent of the rest of the team during those not-quite years and some huge, gaping areas for improvement that said QB never had any interest in addressing. Add in a coach who, after proving he's a great coach, got so caught up in his own ego that now he refuses to change or learn because it would mean that he was wrong.

McNabb was great, but all of those little things add up. I don't know of any other way to describe it. I hope you're wrong about Kolb, but I also hope the Eagles will part ways if he truly is the next Scott Mitchell.

 

[Commodore 64]

From an outsiders standpoint, I always thought the Eagles offense was nearly devoid of talent save for McNabb and Westbrook. I thought the Eagles were amazing for the talent they had...

 

[Eric]

From an outsiders standpoint, I always thought the Eagles offense was nearly devoid of talent save for McNabb and Westbrook. I thought the Eagles were amazing for the talent they had...

I'd say that during the NFC championship era, the defense, o-line, and maybe some special teams players (Akers) were very good. In particular, Brian Dawkins comes to mind; he was sort of the anti-McNabb as a player.

 

[MAXIFUNK]

Steelers Won Thats All Thats Matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I have to have my anti Steelers rant now. Hated em back in the 70s for winning way too many times with a boring style of football, and became absolutely convinced that the 2006 NFL championship was bought and paid for due to the officiating late in the Seahawks/Steelers superbowl. Before then, I was willing to believe professional sports were not rigged. The ref now admits his "regrettable" errors, that I still believe were paid for. See admission here: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/08/06/nfl-referee-admits-mistakes-in-seahawks-steelers-06-super-bowl/ And now, Rothlisberger gets some unheard of deal and break on his loathsome behavior. I understand he did whatever probationary things he was supposed to do to cut his suspension short, but why did he get that deal in the first place? (shhh, I hear money talking.)


Maxi, don't take all that too personally, but you poked my anti Steelers button by mistake. I think I still have PTSD from that 2006 Superbowl.


. . . returning to 2010 now.

 

[R_of_G]

To describe last night's Jets game in one word, shameful.

How else to describe it? When you hold your opponent to 10 points, there is NEVER an excuse for losing.

I knew going in the offense was going to be questionable, but I had no idea it would completely and utterly useless.

It was apparent almost immediately that getting rid of Alan Faneca (for financial reasons) was going to haunt the Jets. Faneca is one of the premier run blockers in the league and Matt Slauson just isn't cutting it in his place. It doesn't matter if it's Shonn Greene or LT running the ball. They could have Jim Brown back there but without blocking, nobody's going anywhere.

The play calling itself was abysmal. This is to be expected. Brian Schottenheimer has proven to Jets fans time and again that he can't call a game, but last night it was on full display for the world. Ron Jaworski (one of the only analysts who seems to understand football) commented about a dozen times last night that the Jets play calling was terrible. I don't know if it's that they are still afraid Sanchez will make mistakes or they just think he doesn't have the skills to throw the ball more than 5 yards, but the play calling needs to change or this team will struggle to win 8 games.

The defense looked impressive for the most part. Cromartie struggled mightily getting as much attention as he did. He'd better get used to it. With Revis on the other side, Cromartie will see more action than he ever has. He had the one big INT, but he also got beaten several times and there were a handful of other plays where the Ravens' receiver couldn't bring the ball in, but if he had, he'd be off to the races as Cromartie had fallen down.

One note about Revis; I suppose the questions about whether or not he was in "football shape" were answered. Why anyone thought he'd be anything less than ready to roll was beyond me. He looked like last season never ended.

I am obviously unhappy with the number of penalties they took, especially on 3rd downs, but several of them were the kind that make me think the NFL doesn't allow one to play defense anymore. Still, I refuse to blame officials in any way for the loss. The officials didn't prevent the Jets from scoring.

 

[Commodore 64]

I lost my fantasy football game by 1 point. And Shonn Greene had -1 points for me last night.

I dropped him from my team. What a jerk.

 

[R_of_G]

Ok, I have to have my anti Steelers rant now. Hated em back in the 70s for winning way too many times with a boring style of football

Not everyone finds defense and a pounding running game boring.

Those are the things for which I love football.

And now, Rothlisberger gets some unheard of deal and break on his loathsome behavior. I understand he did whatever probationary things he was supposed to do to cut his suspension short, but why did he get that deal in the first place? (shhh, I hear money talking.)

Personally, I think Goodell was pushing the envelope with a 6 game suspension for a player's alleged conduct. I find it significant that the NFL set a precedent for having a lower standard of evidence than the American legal system.

I am not saying Roethlisberger didn't do anything wrong. Truth is, I don't know what he did and didn't do because I wasn't there. He may very well have done exactly what he is accused of doing. He may very well not have. What I know for sure is that the authorities didn't feel they had the evidence to charge him with a crime. Doesn't mean he didn't do it, but I think to suspend a guy for at least a quarter of the season requires more than accusations.

 

[Tig]

To describe last night's Jets game in one word, shameful.

I'll describe that game as if from a weather report...
Mostly sloppy with occasional rays of brilliance peeking through.

Penalties (Cromartie especially) helped the Ravens advance better than they did on their own at times.

 

[Tig]

I agree about how the NFL Mafia (that's the nicest name I can come up with) does so much to defend their bad boy players and all the money based decisions they make.

In the past, my favorite team to watch was the Chuck Noll era Bradshaw/Harris/Swann/Stallworth Steelers. Never boring! :spank
Now, they realy are relatively boring to watch unless Troy Palamalu is on the field. I can't think of many past or present safeties that have so much speed, agression, and awareness.

 

[Eric]

Personally, I think Goodell was pushing the envelope with a 6 game suspension for a player's alleged conduct. I find it significant that the NFL set a precedent for having a lower standard of evidence than the American legal system.

I am not saying Roethlisberger didn't do anything wrong. Truth is, I don't know what he did and didn't do because I wasn't there. He may very well have done exactly what he is accused of doing. He may very well not have. What I know for sure is that the authorities didn't feel they had the evidence to charge him with a crime. Doesn't mean he didn't do it, but I think to suspend a guy for at least a quarter of the season requires more than accusations.

I disagree. The NFL is not a legal system or court of law -- they're a business, and a highly visible one at that. I think Big Ben should have been kicked out the league, along with Vick.

What matters to the NFL is revenue and public perception, not whether someone was actually guilty or not. In that way, I guess Vick and Ben (and Pacman, and Ray Lewis, and...) sticking around in the league is proof of the public perception and the public value of morals vs. athletic ability.

But whatever. Just a comment on my personal views, I suppose.

 

[R_of_G]

I disagree. The NFL is not a legal system or court of law -- they're a business, and a highly visible one at that. I think Big Ben should have been kicked out the league, along with Vick.

What matters to the NFL is revenue and public perception, not whether someone was actually guilty or not. In that way, I guess Vick and Ben (and Pacman, and Ray Lewis, and...) sticking around in the league is proof of the public perception and the public value of morals vs. athletic ability.

But whatever. Just a comment on my personal views, I suppose.

I'm not saying they need to adhere to the same standards as the legal system either, but I think by not doing so, they're setting a precedent that there is no actual standard other than the commissioner's personal discretion. This is a formula for inconsistent application of penalties and will only further the growing labor dispute.

Also, I don't personally put Roethlisberger in the same category as Vick or Adam Jones. The latter two were charged with crimes, and in Vick's case served time. Roethlisberger has not been charged with a crime. I don't think it's right to expel someone from their job based on an accusation.

Of course, as you said, these are just our opinions. Not sure there is a "right" and "wrong" here.

 

[Eric]

Also, I don't personally put Roethlisberger in the same category as Vick or Adam Jones. The latter two were charged with crimes, and in Vick's case served time. Roethlisberger has not been charged with a crime. I don't think it's right to expel someone from their job based on an accusation.

IMO, the actual evidence and/or charges are irrelevant. I've never been accused of sexual assault. Never. As far as I know, Ryan Moats never has either. Or Donovan McNabb. Or Hines Ward.

The determining factor here is how this sullies the league, not whether he's actually guilty or not. In that way, the opinion of the average joe on the street (and whether this will affect the flow of cash out of his pocket and into the NFL's) is the only real determinant of "guilt."

But again, since I'm basing it off of my view of the situation, it's completely subjective. I think the thing I take away from this is that, barring a collapse of the revenue stream of the NFL due to the crimes of one of the players, the suspensions and/or fines meted out are exactly what they should be. The market economy dictates that, since all suspensions are basically just a PR move.

 

[marnold]

The "good" news is that my fantasy team won 200.3-127.3 against what has traditionally been one of the best teams in our league. These points came without even starting Boldin. The scoring is much higher because we went to a highly geeky scoring system, intended to make QBs, RBs, and WRs, about equally important. We also added a WR/RB/TE flex position in addition to the ones we already had. Only one team scored higher and that was a team run by one of the members of my congregation that I drafted for.

Early reports are Stafford out for 4-6. Sigh.

 

[MAXIFUNK]

Ok, I have to have my anti Steelers rant now. Hated em back in the 70s for winning way too many times with a boring style of football, and became absolutely convinced that the 2006 NFL championship was bought and paid for due to the officiating late in the Seahawks/Steelers superbowl. Before then, I was willing to believe professional sports were not rigged. The ref now admits his "regrettable" errors, that I still believe were paid for. See admission here: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/08/06/nfl-referee-admits-mistakes-in-seahawks-steelers-06-super-bowl/ And now, Rothlisberger gets some unheard of deal and break on his loathsome behavior. I understand he did whatever probationary things he was supposed to do to cut his suspension short, but why did he get that deal in the first place? (shhh, I hear money talking.)


Maxi, don't take all that too personally, but you poked my anti Steelers button by mistake. I think I still have PTSD from that 2006 Superbowl.


. . . returning to 2010 now.

CRY ME A RIVER FIXED PLEASE!!!!
I LOVE THE STEELERS HATE!!!!
ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT AND COMPLETELY USED TO IT!!!!

HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!!

 

[MAXIFUNK]

The JETS are going to have problems all year on offense and will continue until Mark Sanchez matures as a Pro quarterback. Teams have gone over every single play from last year and are going to throw so many new things at him to see how he handles it. I do not see him doing that great this year recent 2nd year quarterbacks who did not do well Joe Flacco & Matt Ryan and both were better quarterbacks in College than Sanchez. Jets fans this will be a long season 8-8 or 9-7 at best. 1st round playoff lost if they even make it. HYPE IS A BAD THING WE YOU HAVE YOUNG TEAM!!

Mike Vick can still be a starter in this league.

The Patriots as much as I hate them they are going to be hell to beat this year as long as they stay healthy. A bunch of pissed off veterans who have and won and know what it takes to win.

My sleeper team The Packers looked pretty good as well.

Cowboys pretenders at best. Vikings not this year either.


It is only week 1 so I'll see how things unfold but 7 playoff teams from last season lost on opening week. Get prepared for a wild 2010 Seasons.

 

[MAXIFUNK]

My picks for week 2!

Cardinals at Falcons Falcons
Bears at Cowboys Cowboys
Steelers at Titans Titans better win this one
Ravens at Bengals Ravens owe the Browns from last year big time.
Eagles at Lions Eagles
Dolphins at Vikings Vikings
Chiefs at Browns Browns but this could go either way
Buccaneers at Panthers Panthers
Bills at Packers Packers
Seahawks at Broncos pick'em special but Seahawks should win
Rams at Raiders Rams
Texans at Redskins Texans
Patriots at Jets Patriots still pissed about last year.
Jaguars at Chargers Chargers
Giants at Colts Colts only because they are at home
Saints at 49ers Saints

 

[Bloozcat]

New year. Same Browns.

Yet another year of "starting over". The Browns main problem is a lack of continuity. Bad decisions by the front office (the front office being some of those bad decisions as well), that led to bad coaches/coaching, that led to bad draft picks and trades. Then the process is repeated with new actors.

I know Al Learner wants to win, but he doesn't have a great track record of putting the right people in place to make that happen. I do think, though, that he may have finally made the right move in hiring Holmgren. Manginni isn't the problem, a good supporting cast is. And that's management's job.

When Ben Rothlisberger entered the NFL draft I was screaming so loud that they could've heard me in Cleveland that the Browns needed to draft him. They had the pick to do it, but no, they blew it. This year, I was screaming for them to draft John Skelton out of Fordam. The Browns picked Colt McCoy instead and are paying him $5 million dollars. The Arizona Cardinals picked up Skelton in the 5th round for $1.97 million. The Browns could have saved over $3 million and saved the lower draft picks for other players they so desperately need. Skelton is just the kind of quarterback who makes it in the NFL. He's 6'5"/243 lbs., runs a 4.83-40, has a vertical leap of 33", has a quick release....AND...he has the brains to pick up any playbook quickly. They don't exactly give degrees away at Ivy League schools like Fordam where he played.

Think of all the quarterbacks who have become household names over the years - Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, and on and on. Most of the guys who've made it weren't Heisman candidates or number 1 draft picks, but they had the tools to become great NFL quarterbacks. Watch and see if John Skelton doesn't become the Cardinals starting quarterback before this season ends, and also become their quarterback for years to come. It's not that McCoy won't do the same for the Browns, but surely not at the same cost. And I'm a little dubious about his ability to take the punishment that NFL quarterbacks often do.

 

[MAXIFUNK]

Yet another year of "starting over". The Browns main problem is a lack of continuity. Bad decisions by the front office (the front office being some of those bad decisions as well), that led to bad coaches/coaching, that led to bad draft picks and trades. Then the process is repeated with new actors.

I know Al Learner wants to win, but he doesn't have a great track record of putting the right people in place to make that happen. I do think, though, that he may have finally made the right move in hiring Holmgren. Manginni isn't the problem, a good supporting cast is. And that's management's job.

When Ben Rothlisberger entered the NFL draft I was screaming so loud that they could've heard me in Cleveland that the Browns needed to draft him. They had the pick to do it, but no, they blew it. This year, I was screaming for them to draft John Skelton out of Fordam. The Browns picked Colt McCoy instead and are paying him $5 million dollars. The Arizona Cardinals picked up Skelton in the 5th round for $1.97 million. The Browns could have saved over $3 million and saved the lower draft picks for other players they so desperately need. Skelton is just the kind of quarterback who makes it in the NFL. He's 6'5"/243 lbs., runs a 4.83-40, has a vertical leap of 33", has a quick release....AND...he has the brains to pick up any playbook quickly. They don't exactly give degrees away at Ivy League schools like Fordam where he played.

Think of all the quarterbacks who have become household names over the years - Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, and on and on. Most of the guys who've made it weren't Heisman candidates or number 1 draft picks, but they had the tools to become great NFL quarterbacks. Watch and see if John Skelton doesn't become the Cardinals starting quarterback before this season ends, and also become their quarterback for years to come. It's not that McCoy won't do the same for the Browns, but surely not at the same cost. And I'm a little dubious about his ability to take the punishment that NFL quarterbacks often do.

You are right hiring Holmgren should help also staying the course for while will as well. Even if I hate the Browns being a Steelers fan it was much more fun rivalry when they had a real chance to win not just if the Steelers played bad.

The Browns also have been cursed by injuries as well they have one the most loyal fan base in American pro sports hopefully for them they finally get it together.

 

[Eric]

Skelton is just the kind of quarterback who makes it in the NFL. He's 6'5"/243 lbs., runs a 4.83-40, has a vertical leap of 33", has a quick release....AND...he has the brains to pick up any playbook quickly.

Think of all the quarterbacks who have become household names over the years - Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, and on and on. Most of the guys who've made it weren't Heisman candidates or number 1 draft picks, but they had the tools to become great NFL quarterbacks. Watch and see if John Skelton doesn't become the Cardinals starting quarterback before this season ends, and also become their quarterback for years to come.

Are you from Cleveland, Blooz? You have an obvious interest in the Browns, but I didn't know you had a connection to them. Learn something new every day...

I take a much less scientific approach to quarterbacks in the NFL, as I feel like there are many guys drafted who have the measurables you listed, but who flame out anyway. It will be interesting to watch this Skelton guy; I've never heard of him, but will be watching for him in the news now. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[R_of_G]

Yet another year of "starting over". The Browns main problem is a lack of continuity. Bad decisions by the front office (the front office being some of those bad decisions as well), that led to bad coaches/coaching, that led to bad draft picks and trades. Then the process is repeated with new actors.

I know Al Learner wants to win, but he doesn't have a great track record of putting the right people in place to make that happen. I do think, though, that he may have finally made the right move in hiring Holmgren. Manginni isn't the problem, a good supporting cast is. And that's management's job.

When Ben Rothlisberger entered the NFL draft I was screaming so loud that they could've heard me in Cleveland that the Browns needed to draft him. They had the pick to do it, but no, they blew it. This year, I was screaming for them to draft John Skelton out of Fordam. The Browns picked Colt McCoy instead and are paying him $5 million dollars. The Arizona Cardinals picked up Skelton in the 5th round for $1.97 million. The Browns could have saved over $3 million and saved the lower draft picks for other players they so desperately need. Skelton is just the kind of quarterback who makes it in the NFL. He's 6'5"/243 lbs., runs a 4.83-40, has a vertical leap of 33", has a quick release....AND...he has the brains to pick up any playbook quickly. They don't exactly give degrees away at Ivy League schools like Fordam where he played.

Think of all the quarterbacks who have become household names over the years - Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, and on and on. Most of the guys who've made it weren't Heisman candidates or number 1 draft picks, but they had the tools to become great NFL quarterbacks. Watch and see if John Skelton doesn't become the Cardinals starting quarterback before this season ends, and also become their quarterback for years to come. It's not that McCoy won't do the same for the Browns, but surely not at the same cost. And I'm a little dubious about his ability to take the punishment that NFL quarterbacks often do.

While I agree that Skelton is a good prospect, I'd contend the Browns got McCoy for a massive bargain price with him getting all the way to the third round undrafted. For all the talk we were subjected to by the experts about how Tim Tebow has the "intangibles" of "being a winner," you have Colt McCoy who won more Division I (aka FBS) games than any QB in history and in the Big 12 where he faced top caliber competition most weeks. I'm not saying he's a guarantee to become an NFL star, nobody is, but I'd be thrilled if my Jets or Bucs had gotten McCoy with a third round pick and a third round contract (ie. no double-digit guaranteed money) instead of having paid $25 million guaranteed to Marc Sanchez who wasn't as good as McCoy in college and is struggling mightily in the NFL. Time will tell what becomes of McCoy and Skelton, both of whom have plenty of upside potential.

One other nitpicky note that I can't help myself from making, though Fordham is an excellent academic school, it is not an Ivy League school. It is definitely on par with just about any school academically, but it's not a member of the Ivy League. It's football team plays in the Patriot League and if I'm not mistaken, the basketball team plays in the Atlantic 10. If that was another category on which we were to compare/contrast Skelton and McCoy, I'd have to say that McCoy's degree from University of Texas is no less prestigious or more easily earned in the classroom. I'm a firm believer in the academic strength of public universities and University of Texas is among the best of the best academically.

 

[Bloozcat]

Are you from Cleveland, Blooz? You have an obvious interest in the Browns, but I didn't know you had a connection to them. Learn something new every day...

I lived in a number of places growing up including a town called Richmond Heights just outside of Cleveland when I was 11 years old. Although we only lived there less than two years, I became a Browns fan in that time period. Going to the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium and seeing Jim Brown play was something special. Browns fans are a loyal lot too. I've never seen a half-way Browns fan, and they tend to be loyal to the Browns their whole lives no matter where they end up.

 

[Bloozcat]

While I agree that Skelton is a good prospect, I'd contend the Browns got McCoy for a massive bargain price with him getting all the way to the third round undrafted. For all the talk we were subjected to by the experts about how Tim Tebow has the "intangibles" of "being a winner," you have Colt McCoy who won more Division I (aka FBS) games than any QB in history and in the Big 12 where he faced top caliber competition most weeks. I'm not saying he's a guarantee to become an NFL star, nobody is, but I'd be thrilled if my Jets or Bucs had gotten McCoy with a third round pick and a third round contract (ie. no double-digit guaranteed money) instead of having paid $25 million guaranteed to Marc Sanchez who wasn't as good as McCoy in college and is struggling mightily in the NFL. Time will tell what becomes of McCoy and Skelton, both of whom have plenty of upside potential.

One other nitpicky note that I can't help myself from making, though Fordham is an excellent academic school, it is not an Ivy League school. It is definitely on par with just about any school academically, but it's not a member of the Ivy League. It's football team plays in the Patriot League and if I'm not mistaken, the basketball team plays in the Atlantic 10. If that was another category on which we were to compare/contrast Skelton and McCoy, I'd have to say that McCoy's degree from University of Texas is no less prestigious or more easily earned in the classroom. I'm a firm believer in the academic strength of public universities and University of Texas is among the best of the best academically.

You're absolutely right about Fordham R_of_G, they're not Ivy League...although acedemically they are similar. My mistake...

Oh, I do agree that the Browns did get Colt McCoy for a "bargain" price given that he went in the third round. McCoy's stats while at Texas are very impressive as well, unquestionably. And perhaps in the grand scheme of things the $3 millon difference between Skelton's salary and McCoy's is merely a drop in the bucket. I am really hoping that McCoy does do well with the Browns, but at the same time I really believe that Skelton will become a top notch NFL quarterback. McCoy is no shrimp, but I look at the beating that Rothlisberger takes on the Steelers and I tend to favor the larger quarterback...especially when the offensive line is a work in progress. Just having to face the Raven's defence twice a year is enough to make me feel this way.

Time will tell...but I was right about Rothlisberger long before it could be called hindsight. I was watching and hoping the Browns would get him while watching him play college ball. But in hindsight, the Browns management would have misused him by not giving him the supporting cast he needed as the Steelers have.

It's often said that the skills needed to win at the college level aren't often the same skills that are needed to succeed in the NFL. Obviously, there are quarterbacks who play in NFL-like systems in college, and there are those college quarterbacks who adapt quickly to the NFL. But, for every Sam Bradford and Peyton Manning, there's a dozen Ryan Leafs, Akili Smiths, David Carrs, Joey Harringtons, JaMarcus Russels, and as the Browns know all too well, Tim Couchs & Brady Quinns.

If Tim Tebow makes it in the NFL it'll be because of sheer will power on his part, I believe. While arguably one of the best (if not the best) college quarterback of all time, his game is not well suited to the NFL...outside of the occasional insertion into Wildcat formations. The fact that he went late in the first round says a lot more about his character than his abilities as an NFL grade quarterback. I think Denver succumbed to the hype. Still, I hope he does well. I'm not a Gators fan, but I am a Tim Tebow fan.

 

[R_of_G]

McCoy is no shrimp, but I look at the beating that Rothlisberger takes on the Steelers and I tend to favor the larger quarterback...especially when the offensive line is a work in progress. Just having to face the Raven's defence twice a year is enough to make me feel this way.

I agree with you there seeing the beatings QBs take these days. It's part of why I favored Josh Freeman over Marc Sanchez if the Jets were taking a 1st round QB two years ago, but at least my Bucs got Freeman so I get to watch him too.

It's often said that the skills needed to win at the college level aren't often the same skills that are needed to succeed in the NFL. Obviously, there are quarterbacks who play in NFL-like systems in college, and there are those college quarterbacks who adapt quickly to the NFL. But, for every Sam Bradford and Peyton Manning, there's a dozen Ryan Leafs, Akili Smiths, David Carrs, Joey Harringtons, JaMarcus Russels, and as the Browns know all too well, Tim Couchs & Brady Quinns.

Absolutely, though I'm not quite ready to put a check mark next to Bradford's name as a successful NFL QB just yet. He's got all the tools, but he has some very long games ahead of him for a very bad team. We'll see what he makes of his chances.

 

[Eric]

And perhaps in the grand scheme of things the $3 millon difference between Skelton's salary and McCoy's is merely a drop in the bucket.

I think that sums up my view on the thing. When it comes to quarterbacks, how much you're paying them in their rookie deal (provided they were drafted outside of the first round) is largely inconsequential. It's more a question of whether they flourish as an NFL player; performance per dollar is not nearly as big a deal as whether they can play well. From the third round on, I'd say the pressure to prove your worth as a high draft pick is essentially null.

I am really hoping that McCoy does do well with the Browns, but at the same time I really believe that Skelton will become a top notch NFL quarterback. McCoy is no shrimp, but I look at the beating that Rothlisberger takes on the Steelers and I tend to favor the larger quarterback...especially when the offensive line is a work in progress. Just having to face the Raven's defence twice a year is enough to make me feel this way.

I know I don't have to tell you this, but there are also plenty of Byron Leftwichs and JaMarcus Russells out there who were plenty big and had strong arms, but who just couldn't make it happen. Drew Brees has long been thought of as too small to play, and he's not even much of a scrambler to compensate for his small frame.

I say this just to drive home the point that I consider physical tools important, but nowhere close to the most important thing. I'd say work ethic, luck, and brains are probably more crucial.

But in hindsight, the Browns management would have misused him by not giving him the supporting cast he needed as the Steelers have.

I think this is a critical point. Ben just landed in a good situation. He's a great player who is incredibly clutch, but compared to some QBs, he's not the most prolific passer. I can imagine more than a few situations where he would not have succeeded in the way he has.