(No love for) GD/Jerry Garcia..?

[poodlesrule]

It seems like that we don't see Jerry Garcia's or the GD names mentioned much here, when folks are talking about notable bands and guitar players.

Dislike for the Dead's approach to music?
JG's technique or tone perceived as not remarkable enough?

Just curious.
I enjoy listening to the GD only occasionally, when in the mood. Or when behind the wheel on a long trip...!

 

[sumitomo]

Not at all Poodlesrule,I think it was rylan and robert that got together and did alittle jamming and posted here on the fret and I know I made a comment on how there was some GD in that jam and we liked it.Sumi PS GD right there with ABB art of the jam!!!

 

[deeaa]

I really enjoy those 2 country rock Dead albums...brilliant vocals and superb feel. Never really bothered to listen to any other stuff from them.

 

[R_of_G]

Longtime Deadhead here.

Don't listen to them as often anymore but that balances out with the years I listened to little else.

Still listen to them often enough though, mostly from the very early era with Pigpen on vocals and orgran, when they were still, more or less, a blues band. Jerry's tone in that era is, by a wide margin, my preferred tone for him. In later years I thought his tone became thinner and cleaner whereas I preferred the fullness and bite of the '68-'72 sound.

Jerry's voice, on the other hand, is something I could never get enough of. Bob Weir's voice, that's another story altogether. I respect the hell out of Weir as a rhythm player but there aren't many songs I'm fond of hearing the man sing.

 

[mapka]

Still listen to them often enough though, mostly from the very early era with Pigpen on vocals and orgran, when they were still, more or less, a blues band. Jerry's tone in that era is, by a wide margin, my preferred tone for him. In later years I thought his tone became thinner and cleaner whereas I preferred the fullness and bite of the '68-'72 sound.

I agree. I think that they have much more mojo during this period. Tight nicely rehearsed shows during this period. I also like the mid 80s to early 90s stuff, although it can be spotty at times. This is when I got turned onto their music so I am a little biased for this period

 

[R_of_G]

I also like the mid 80s to early 90s stuff, although it can be spotty at times.

I can tell you in two words why I enjoy shows from the 80s... Brent Mydland. Not only did his keyboard playing add new life to the band, but his backup vocals meshed so perfectly with Jerry's voice as to bring a new level of bittersweetness to some of my favorite songs.

It's for the inverse reason that I have a difficult time listening to shows from 73-80. It's a shame because their playing in this time (especially 77) is spectacular, but I just cannot abide by Donna Godchaux's vocals. For a woman who had such remarkable control over her voice in the studio, her inability to remain in key when singing live makes many of those shows unlistenable.

 

[kidsmoke]

Don't listen to them as often anymore but that balances out with the years I listened to little else.

This sums up my experience exactly. Older sister was a deadhead in the 70's, and I went to my first show at 14 in 1980, moved to California '84, worked in a record store and went to shows. period. There were some Chinese New Years shows at Kaiser Auditorium in Oakland in '86 that just flat obliterated my understanding of much of the world around me. Musically, socially, mentally. Couple years of that and my grasp of reality became tenuous, and I re-engaged the world.

Talk about bittersweet.

I don't listen to the band as much anymore, but without question, that period colors my engagement of music completely. I listen to virtually everything and anything. I would say that the finest moments of Live Dead serve as a benchmark, a frame of reference, for everything else.

There is much that I enjoy today that I believe is "better", but as they say Down East, "Ya cahn't get theyah from heyah". In other words, I wouldn't have the ears to hear it without having been where I was then.

I'll just shut up now.

 

[Katastrophe]

Not much of a Dead fan here, but I'll admit it's probably more from ignorance than anything else. Radio just never played more than one or two Dead songs, and it wasn't enough of an enticement to run down to the store and purchase an album.

I have a ton of respect for the band, however. Playing for decades on the road, and never losing contact with their fans, is admirable!

I did, however, own a couple Jerry Garcia ties, and have consumed Cherry Garcia ice cream. It's my fave Ben & Jerry's flavor!

 

[mapka]

For any one who as an "I" device (pod, pad, phone...) I got to give acknowledgment to a great dead podcast. It is called Deadpod and is very good. It is hosted by a true deadhead and is even sponsored by a guitar effects company! they're broadcast compliment my limited tape (yes I said tape! :thumbsup ) of shows.

 

[R_of_G]

I don't listen to the band as much anymore, but without question, that period colors my engagement of music completely. I listen to virtually everything and anything. I would say that the finest moments of Live Dead serve as a benchmark, a frame of reference, for everything else.

There is much that I enjoy today that I believe is "better", but as they say Down East, "Ya cahn't get theyah from heyah". In other words, I wouldn't have the ears to hear it without having been where I was then.

Well said.

I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything and it's always this time of year that I find myself nostalgic for it as the vast majority of shows I saw were in the summer.

Good ol' Grateful Dead indeed.

 

[DrumBob]

Saw them several times and they were either great or terrible-very inconsistent. I did like Workingman's Dead and American Beauty, but after experiencing them live, turned them off for good. I really never liked Garcia's playing or singing, to be honest.

When we were auditioning guitarist/singers last year, one of the guys who came was a stone Deadhead, a garcia freak. He played great the first time. Second time, we gave him ten more songs to learn. He came unprepared and played lousy. He was not asked to return. Since then, I have specified "No Deadheads" in my ads.

 

[R_of_G]

When we were auditioning guitarist/singers last year, one of the guys who came was a stone Deadhead, a garcia freak. He played great the first time. Second time, we gave him ten more songs to learn. He came unprepared and played lousy. He was not asked to return. Since then, I have specified "No Deadheads" in my ads.

I have encountered guys who just want to mimic Jerry's tone and playing style and that's fine and good for a jam or two, but I'm more into playing with those of us that allow the Dead to be an influence rather than a blueprint.

Still, it's sad to let a bad experience with an individual musician color your outlook on a larger set of musicians categorized simply by their musical tastes. I proudly consider myself a Deadhead and yet I sound entirely different than several friends I play with, all of whom are Deadheads as well and all sound different not just from me but from each other.

Also, you're right, the Dead were inconsistent live. I saw some great shows and I saw some awful shows. Truth be told, that was part of the fun of going to multiple shows. It was fun to see which songs they'd play well and which ones they'd phone in. Talking about the bad moments after the show was as much fun as talking about the good because everybody knew every note of every song and we knew how to listen. If it was wrong, we'd know and it was fun to see who caught what.

 

[DrumBob]

I have encountered guys who just want to mimic Jerry's tone and playing style and that's fine and good for a jam or two, but I'm more into playing with those of us that allow the Dead to be an influence rather than a blueprint.

Still, it's sad to let a bad experience with an individual musician color your outlook on a larger set of musicians categorized simply by their musical tastes. I proudly consider myself a Deadhead and yet I sound entirely different than several friends I play with, all of whom are Deadheads as well and all sound different not just from me but from each other.

Also, you're right, the Dead were inconsistent live. I saw some great shows and I saw some awful shows. Truth be told, that was part of the fun of going to multiple shows. It was fun to see which songs they'd play well and which ones they'd phone in. Talking about the bad moments after the show was as much fun as talking about the good because everybody knew every note of every song and we knew how to listen. If it was wrong, we'd know and it was fun to see who caught what.

I think you're possibly the exception to rule. I have encountered too many Deadhead guitarists over the years, and all of them mimic'd Garcia's playing and tone. I wanted to start a band once with a friend of mine who I knew was a Deadhead. He came over and all he did was try to be Jerry II in every way. I forgot about the idea of starting a band with him, and I have no desire to ever deal with another Deadhead musician. No offense intended.

May I ask you a question? Why on earth would you want to see a band that reveled in its inconsistency and put on lousy shows for fans who paid good money to see them? I can't get past the idea that you and your friends seemed to take pleasure in comparing notes on those lousy shows. I'd be pissed if I had to do that.

 

[hubberjub]

I love the Grateful Dead. Their music has been a big part of my life. I don't think my playing has been influenced by Jerry's playing though. I have a good friend who bases his whole style around Jerry even down to having had a copy of Jerry's "Tiger" guitar made for him (by Phiga guitars). That type of imitation has never made sense to me. I enjoy sounding like myself. And on the topic of Donna Jean, my band has played several gigs with her current project, The Zen Tricksters. I don't really care for her singing, but the band is very good. Their guitarist, Jeff Mattson, was picked up by Dark Star Orchestra recently.

 

[sumitomo]

I have always liked their music,and have saw them in concert couple of times,but I got so loaded both times I don't remember nada,not even driving home.Sumi

 

[Zip]

I pretty much stopped listening to them after Aoxomoxoa. Respect them as musicians though.

 

[R_of_G]

Their music has been a big part of my life. I don't think my playing has been influenced by Jerry's playing though. I have a good friend who bases his whole style around Jerry even down to having had a copy of Jerry's "Tiger" guitar made for him (by Phiga guitars). That type of imitation has never made sense to me. I enjoy sounding like myself.

See, there are at least two of us.

And on the topic of Donna Jean, my band has played several gigs with her current project, The Zen Tricksters. I don't really care for her singing, but the band is very good. Their guitarist, Jeff Mattson, was picked up by Dark Star Orchestra recently.

The whole Donna with the Tricksters thing is a sore spot for me. I used to see the Tricksters quite often in the pre-Donna days and they were amazing. If they want to work with her, that's obviously their choice, but they sounded a lot better prior to her inclusion.

May I ask you a question? Why on earth would you want to see a band that reveled in its inconsistency and put on lousy shows for fans who paid good money to see them? I can't get past the idea that you and your friends seemed to take pleasure in comparing notes on those lousy shows. I'd be pissed if I had to do that.

I'm not sure I'd say the band itself reveled in its inconsistency. It wasn't a selling point for them or anything.

As far as why fans can draw enjoyment from it, for starters, it reminds you that these people are humans. Humans make mistakes. Humans have off nights. It's how they handle it that makes it interesting.

Secondarily, catching wrong notes or wrong lyrics or anything "different" than the expected helps develop the ability to listen analytically. Not everybody does this. Not everybody enjoys it. To me, it's an invaluable tool and one I definitely honed on Dead tour.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I guess I fall in the category that had a bad live experience, and it has always colored my perception. I watched Santana "open for" the Dead in '88, and he and his band were so far superior in every way to the Dead that I basically lost interest. I get a bit inconsistent, but when you are touring that much, and charging that much from so many people for tickets, I feel a bit more professionalism is in order.

That said, I do have an old live CD I like that has been titled different things, and will always enjoy hearing good recordings of some of the old (and newer) hits.

To compare the two artists I watched that night, I guess I naturally prefer the more accessible melodies that Carlos pursues to failed experimentation by Jerry. I also was never a big fan of his tone. However, after listening to my instructor defend him, and understanding his experimentation more, I am willing to give a good recording a chance.

 

[hubberjub]

The whole Donna with the Tricksters thing is a sore spot for me. I used to see the Tricksters quite often in the pre-Donna days and they were amazing. If they want to work with her, that's obviously their choice, but they sounded a lot better prior to her inclusion.

I know exactly what you mean. We played some gigs with the pre-Donna Tricksters several years back and thought highly of them. The last time we played with them (with Donna) was about a year ago and I really didn't enjoy it. I can't really blame them for the Donna thing. I'm sure it was great for publicity but it definitely didn't improve the band. Either way, how do you turn down a former member of the Grateful Dead when they ask to play with you?

 

[syo]

Why on earth would you want to see a band that reveled in its inconsistency and put on lousy shows for fans who paid good money to see them? I can't get past the idea that you and your friends seemed to take pleasure in comparing notes on those lousy shows. I'd be pissed if I had to do that.

Dead shows were unique for me in that I wasn't really too concious of how good (or bad) they were while at the show (maybe because I wasn't too concious :messedup. More interested in the playlist, the sun shining down, the vibrating colors and the oneness of the universe. Afterwards, listening to tapes of the shows I'd listen with a different ear but for me I always liked their vibe even when sloppy. Always loved Jerry's voice too.

I don't think I would be so forgiving of any other band but Dead shows were more than just a concert for me.

 

[R_of_G]

I can't really blame them for the Donna thing. I'm sure it was great for publicity but it definitely didn't improve the band. Either way, how do you turn down a former member of the Grateful Dead when they ask to play with you?

No doubt, I get why they decided to include her. I just wish it had been more of a one-off kind of thing for one tour or something like that.

As to letting a bad performance color one's opinion of a band as a whole, I can see that when it's a band that doesn't really change up the setlist from one night to the next or plays their songs live exactly the way they sound on record. Not saying this is a bad thing, I have seen many bands like this and if they sound good they sound good.

But, I am willing to give a bit more latitude to a band like the Dead that makes a point of not playing the same material two nights in a row, drawing from a catalog of hundreds of original and cover songs. Not every version of a song was the same either, with changes in style or tempo or length or sometimes the song ended and sometimes it transitioned into another song. With some bands, while you may not know what song is coming next, you can narrow it down to something in their catalog and likely something they've played several times already on the tour. With bands like the Dead, part of the appeal was that you really never knew what they'd do next, which made it a lot of fun for geeks like myself that are into pursuits like statistics and pattern recognition. Setlists and notes from past shows became bits of folklore.