Practicing Near Your Amph

[marnold]

Since I got a new speaker for my AD30VT I'm discovering something that I should have known a long time ago: where you stand in respect to your amp has a big impact on how it sounds. This is especially true with closed-back amps that tend to project forward predominantly, more so than open-back. I think I've discovered that I've been sitting in the worst place imaginable, other than behind the amp. I've got it on a chair. I sit in front of it, but significantly off to the side. I'm finding that if I stand in front of the amp itself about six or so feet away, it sounds a lot different and, quite frankly, a lot better. I realize that some of this will vary based on room geometry and sound absorption, but is there a "magic spot" to be in? For the sake of this discussion let's limit it to home/studio/bedroom playing rather than live playing which is a different animal.

I feel like an idiot for never thinking of this before.

 

[Spudman]

There are a lot of other things you can do too. Try putting it in a corner, against a wall, 1 foot away from a wall, facing a wall, near a window, on a couch, in front of a couch, etc. All these things change the sound. You'll find some neat things by experimenting. Also having those sound waves interacting with the guitar is a path to some magical events. A little volume - a little gain = fun.

I used to get on some stages and during setup I'd think "what the heck happened to my amph?" I'd have to do a lot of experimenting, and do it quickly, to find something I was happy with. Just trust your ears and don't quit until you're happy...or it's show time.

 

[Kazz]

I probably tend to sit in the worst spot...that would be on top of my amp....I have noticed when I plug in one of the long cords and roam around pretending to be a rock star....that it does open up and sound a lot better.

 

[Lev]

I find tilting the amp back a little so that the sound projects towards your head rather than your feet gives me a more consistent sound.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I have my amphs on stands tilted back pointed directly at my head. I always play standing up about 6-8 feet away.

The amphs themselves are 2-3 feet from the wall.

This arrangement sounds great. I can tell the difference if I move from side to side.

When I play through headphones, which is often, I place them directly over my ears. I have found them to be far less effective at 6-8 feet regardless of how they are tilted. Their distance from the wall does not seem to matter one whit.

 

[Spudman]

When I play through headphones, which is often, I place them directly over my ears. I have found them to be far less effective at 6-8 feet regardless of how they are tilted. Their distance from the wall does not seem to matter one whit.

Are they open or closed backed headphones? Changed in barometric pressure will have a huge effect on headphones especially if you are standing on a tile floor.:thwap:

 

[marnold]

I find tilting the amp back a little so that the sound projects towards your head rather than your feet gives me a more consistent sound.

I've got it on a chair so it's at least off the ground. If I stand right next to it, the speaker is at knee/thigh height. Backing up a few feet seems to help. The funny thing is that when I was sitting to the side, my head was closer to the speaker but because I was off to the side, I was hearing more boominess than anything else. Of course now I'm going to have to redo my settings again

That is another way that this Ragin Cajun has been better in my amp. The old speaker was relatively decent when sitting next to it at low volumes. Crank it and move a bit and, well, it gets ugly. The Cajun seems to want to be played loud--a fact that miraculously hasn't gotten me murdered yet.

 

[wingsdad]

You've got it off the ground on a chair, and that's good.

The suggestion to tilt it back is good, too, because positioned this way, the sound will reflect off the ceiling instead of getting directed into absorbent surfaces. Unless it's acoustic tile.

One of the reasons Fender put tilt-back legs on their speaker cabs was to project the sound this way, up & over club patrons.

There's amp stands on the market that tilt this way. Pretty sure Strum here has one. Unless he sold it to stock up on his favorite strings. oke: :rotflmao:

For more (tighter) bass response, stick it in the corner of the room a couple of feet from the walls. The corner will serve as a 'bass trap'.

 

[just strum]

The Cajun seems to want to be played loud--a fact that miraculously hasn't gotten me murdered yet.

I'm in the same boat, I've heard a lot more "Can you close the door???" request from family more. I think they me plotting something and one of these days I may come home from work to find I no longer have an amp.

 

[Ch0jin]

I might have mentioned this in my review of the BB1200 I bought, but it's very relevant here too. (unlike 80% of my posts haha)

If your playing a hollow body guitar, the position of the guitar in relation to the speakers seems to have an even more pronounced effect. I often sit on a milk crate directly in front of a 4x12 so there is quite a wall of sound coming at me, but you can still hear an obvious difference in sound if I pivot left to right as a result of the sound waves from the speaker interacting with the resonant body of the guitar. Something I'd never really noticed with my solid body guitars.

It probably results in nightmares for studio engineers or guitarists try to nail and exact sound, but for hack's like me its just another effect to play with!

 

[Rocket]

I often sit on a milk crate directly in front of a 4x12 so there is quite a wall of sound coming at me...
...It probably results in nightmares for studio engineers or guitarists try to nail and exact sound, but for hack's like me its just another effect to play with!

Nobody uses a 4x12 in a studio environment... most studios I've been in use relatively small isolated & miked amps and let the audio production staff engineer & manipulate sound via console.
Multi-speaker stacks & cabs are more for live performance in medium to large venues.

 

[just strum]

I find that sitting between two amps about 2 to 3 feet from your ears will speed up the hearing loss process.

 

[peachhead]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that... oke:

 

[just strum]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that... oke:

Maybe I should reword that to

"I've heard, back when I could still hear, that sitting between two amps about 2 to 3 feet from your ears will speed up the hearing loss process."

 

[Ch0jin]

Nobody uses a 4x12 in a studio environment... most studios I've been in use relatively small isolated & miked amps and let the audio production staff engineer & manipulate sound via console.
Multi-speaker stacks & cabs are more for live performance in medium to large venues.

Based on the studio's I've been in (as a photographer, not musician) I wholeheartedly agree with you. However what I actually meant was, it must be a nightmare to try and recreate the interaction between a hollow body guitar and amp time and time again in a studio, or live, regardless of speaker size. I saw an interview with Tommy Emmanuel on TV a few months back where he described the setup he used for his last studio album and the rig to record his acoustic guitar. He basically sat on his stool and I think it was something like 6 mics of varying types were positioned around him to capture various nuances of the guitar, as well as using the on board pickup. I remember at the time wondering if people went to similar lengths when recording hollow body electrics and figured if they did, it'd be a nightmare, hence my comments. Also, even with a small amp (obviously not one with a speaker isolator though) I'd have thought you'd notice differences in sound based on your position in relation to the speakers with a hollow body electric. Basically I envisioned finding the sweet spot, then taping an X on the floor to guide the guitarist where to stand and which direction to angle the guitar for the best tone. Is that actually done in practice or am I over complicating things?

 

[Ch0jin]

"I've READ, that sitting between two amps about 2 to 3 feet from your ears will speed up the hearing loss process."

Fixed it for you

 

[just strum]

Fixed it for you

Thank you, but I also went blind from doing something else One should listen to their parents.

Hey, I'm Tommy!!!

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

If your playing a hollow body guitar, the position of the guitar in relation to the speakers seems to have an even more pronounced effect. I often sit on a milk crate directly in front of a 4x12 so there is quite a wall of sound coming at me, but you can still hear an obvious difference in sound if I pivot left to right as a result of the sound waves from the speaker interacting with the resonant body of the guitar. Something I'd never really noticed with my solid body guitars.

I'll often get closer & point the amph directly at my hollow-bodied Godin 5th Avenue to get the body intereacting with with the amplified P90 sound waves.

sweet, sweet, sweet....

 

[ZMAN]

I have a picture of Eric Johnson sitting on a chair and his amp is sitting on a table facing him level with his head about 5 feet away. Of course he may have just been drying his hair. But it seems as if that would be the ideal position.

 

[Ch0jin]

I'll often get closer & point the amph directly at my hollow-bodied Godin 5th Avenue to get the body intereacting with with the amplified P90 sound waves.

sweet, sweet, sweet....

My Maton BB1200 doesn't have P90's exactly, but it does have custom made HB sized SC's (known locally as B90's) so we may not be on the same planet, but we are certainly on the same page

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

My Maton BB1200 doesn't have P90's exactly, but it does have custom made HB sized SC's (known locally as B90's) so we may not be on the same planet, but we are certainly on the same page

Never heard of it:

Looks sweet indeed.

http://www.maton.com.au/news/german-maton-bb-1200-review.html

 

[Ch0jin]

Wow I'd actually never read that review, they certainly seemed to love it

Mines a bit different to that one though as it's older (one of the original designs sans neck binding and trapezoid inlays) and quite modified. Oh and mines a translucent cherry red with a thick tiger stripe flame

I'm not surprised you had not heard of them though. From what I can gather they aren't well known outside Australia and NZ even though they have been around since the 40's. It's a pity because they make amazing gear. Same goes for Cole Clark guitars. Next time you see an Aussie musician playing an acoustic, there's a real good chance it's either a Maton, or a Cole Clark.

I had a look at those Godin 5th Avenue's online too, the black ones especially took my fancy. They look really cool

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Wow I'd actually never read that review, they certainly seemed to love it

Mines a bit different to that one though as it's older (one of the original designs sans neck binding and trapezoid inlays) and quite modified. Oh and mines a translucent cherry red with a thick tiger stripe flame


I had a look at those Godin 5th Avenue's online too, the black ones especially took my fancy. They look really cool

Is yours made from the same woods?

My Godin is the Cognac Burst.

It's a kick to play. The thing is alive. I love the Lollar P90 on it.

 

[Ch0jin]

Is yours made from the same woods?

My Godin is the Cognac Burst.

It's a kick to play. The thing is alive. I love the Lollar P90 on it.

Yeah mine is made from the same woods.

I heard that the first 80 (which includes mine) were made to Josh Homme's spec with top and bottom body binding, but no neck or headstock binding and simple MOP dot inlays. Kinda like an Epi Dot (not surprising because Josh also plays Dot's amongst other things). As a professional muso I guess he was after tone more than showiness. However feedback from the market indicated that for the price, customers expected a bit more bling (price wise they sit in between a LP Studio and a Standard in Australia. USA made guitars are really expensive here) so they added the trapezoid inlays and neck and headstock binding.

I know what you mean about feeling "alive". My other Maton is the MS2000DLX-SD in black, and when I first played it I was amazed at how alive and percussive it felt, the whole things just seems to vibrate in your arms, but then I played the hollow body and WOW! I can see why people love them, regardless of the brand. When I grab one of my other guitars after playing the BB, I feel I'm missing something because you can't hear/feel the acoustic element present all the time in a hollow body.

I'm digging the fat single coil P90 type sounds too. If I wind the gain right up to metal territory they are a bit noisy. Well, noisy for a guy who uses hum buckers on all his other guitars that is. How about the Lollar P90's you have?

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I'm digging the fat single coil P90 type sounds too. If I wind the gain right up to metal territory they are a bit noisy. Well, noisy for a guy who uses hum buckers on all his other guitars that is. How about the Lollar P90's you have?

Yup, they get noisy with a lot of gain.

 

[schenkadere]

Theoretically, I would imagine it would be best to practice in similar positioning as you would be playing live.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Theoretically, I would imagine it would be best to practice in similar positioning as you would be playing live.

This deduction is based on theoretical playing out

Live I can handle, it's just that the single member of the audience keeps leaving & demands that the noise be turned down. She seems not to care where I stand relative to the amp as long as it is off & I have headphones on.

The concert is sweetest when the audience is not at the club.

 

[schenkadere]

This deduction is based on theoretical playing out

Live I can handle, it's just that the single member of the audience keeps leaving & demands that the noise be turned down. She seems not to care where I stand relative to the amp as long as it is off & I have headphones on.

The concert is sweetest when the audience is not at the club.

I think that's a diplomatic way of saying that the wife *****es at you when you play?:rotflmao:

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I think that's a diplomatic way of saying that the wife *****es at you when you play?:rotflmao:

Not really. She's sweet, but I can't really turn on the amp unless she's not here. Otherwise it's headphones & the Tonelab.

 

[schenkadere]

Not really. She's sweet, but I can't really turn on the amp unless she's not here. Otherwise it's headphones & the Tonelab.

Last night I was trying to figure out a slide song by Jimmy Herring and my wife said it sounded like two cats fighting.:thwap: :rotflmao: