rack setups?

[ibanezjunkie]

ive never quite understood these, but i know theyre versatile.

if i bought say, an EL34 power amp, and a preamp, could i run

Power Amp -> Preamp -> Cab?

 

[WackyT]

No. It'd work better wired:

Preamp -> Power Amp -> Speaker

 

[tunghaichuan]

ive never quite understood these, but i know theyre versatile.

if i bought say, an EL34 power amp, and a preamp, could i run

Power Amp -> Preamp -> Cab?

It's pretty simple really. An amp only has three parts: preamp, power amp and power supply. Rackmount units have the preamp and power amp separate, each with their own built-in power supplies.

You'd want to run: Preamp -> Power Amp -> Cab. You can also place an FX unit between the preamp and the power amp. For real kicks you can run stereo FX into a stereo power amp and a pair of speaker cabs for a stereo rig. I ran one for years.

tung

 

[ibanezjunkie]

ahh thats what i meant lol. obviously preamp first, that was dumb of me :thwap:

 

[ibanezjunkie]

hey guys, im normally not a fan of behringer stuff, but their hybrid preamp supposedly sounds good (youtube).

anyone ever used an ultragain pro?

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/info_42827.html

 

[tunghaichuan]

That really isn't a guitar preamp. It is more for warming up digital sources. It doesn't have a dirty channel for distorted playing.



It works okay, but you'd still have to use a pedal for heavier sounds.

Also, I'd be surprised if the 12AX7 actually did anything other than sit there and look good. Many times, circuits like that only have the vacuum tube there for show and it isn't actually in the signal path.

tung

hey guys, im normally not a fan of behringer stuff, but their hybrid preamp supposedly sounds good (youtube).

anyone ever used an ultragain pro?

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/info_42827.html

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I'm a recent convert to rack rigs now that there's a processor/ preamp that plays and sounds like a real tube amp and makes me extremely happy. The cool thing about them is that you can build your sound just about any way you want to - just add money.

 

[tunghaichuan]

Now that is the rack setup of doom. :AOK: :master:

tung

I'm a recent convert to rack rigs now that there's a processor/ preamp that plays and sounds like a real tube amp and makes me extremely happy. The cool thing about them is that you can build your sound just about any way you want to - just add money.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Now that is the rack setup of doom. :AOK: :master:

tung

Thanks, Tung!

I absolutely LOVE the sounds I get from it. The Axe FX is amazing!

 

[marnold]

Now that is the rack setup of doom. :AOK: :master:

 

[Ascension]

I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
#1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
#2 Marshall JMP-1
#3 Peavy Rock Master
Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!

 

[tunghaichuan]

I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
#1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!

Thanks for the heads up on the Tone Navigator. I've been lusting after one of those since they came out. $300 shipped is a killer deal for one of those. BTW, have you ever tried Carvin's SX-300R? Carvin blew a bunch of those out about 2 years ago, dirt cheap. They still sell the SX-300H, which is the 100w head version which uses that preamp.

With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!

I agree 100%. Nothing but tubes sound like tubes. However, I will say that the Tube Works MosValve power amps sound very good, especially if when on a budget.

tung

 

[deeaa]

Ahh!

I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
#1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
#2 Marshall JMP-1
#3 Peavy Rock Master
Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!

Well I must second this post except I haven't seen a Carvin Tone Navigator.

My rack setup for several years was a Marshall Jmp-1 which I ran direct to PA via the emulated outs and to a Samson 120W poweramp > 4x10" cab...very versatile, very portable rig which despite being mostly SS was VERY good indeed. (I never was afraid of using also SS rigs; I get some of my best sounds from SS systems and it really makes little difference to me what the rig is...I think always sound more or less the same if I play thru a JCM800 or a 10W Behringer amp once I set it the way I like with pedals I like.

On the JMP-1 I usually mostly used the 'classic clean' channel which I ran at 20 gain 20 vol when it crunched real well, and sent it over the edge with hot pickups and an OD pedal at times. Here's a live recording (direct to board from the JMP-1) on a 'bluesy setting' and for the lead I kick in a Tubescreamer (my trio band, I sing and play guitar): http://deeaa.pp.fi/Pelko.mp3

Here's another lengthy vid where I play the JMP-1 now with a 60/60 tube poweramp/4x12"...also some comparison to the VJr head I modded...just the vidcam mic used but you still get an idea how they sounded.

I always thought the JMP-1 was THE preamp for most any Marshall type sound and a very good basis to build a rig around.

I also played my Rockmaster rig (that also had a 60/60 classic poweramp - el84's) for a good while live...I LOVED the setup as well...perhaps even better than JMP especially for more metal sounds.

One clip from that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7t86aFUNnY&feature=related - I play the lead melody but not the solos.

I'd be very interested trying that Carvin seeing you like similar preamps I do...

 

[deeaa]

I agree 100%. Nothing but tubes sound like tubes. However, I will say that the Tube Works MosValve power amps sound very good, especially if when on a budget.

tung

Hmm...that's an interesting issue to me.

I agree nothing works like tube for the _player_ when they're playing the amp...they can pry my Ceriatone from my cold fingers...BUT on record, it matters very little what amp is used.

I once created a poll test where I had like two dozen amp samples I recorded using about six different amps, half of them SS and half all tube, some even D/I and got about forty people, all guitarists, to guess which were which type...and aside from a couple very obvious ones (like the POD) nobody could tell them apart. Nobody.

I wish I had the vid clip I made a long time ago here somewhere...I played on camera so that it looked like I was playing a 2204 Marshall, when actually the sound came from a completely D/I SS system...it got a LOT of comments like 'only a 2204 can sound so good etc.'...people hear what they see & think must be good in many a case. I'm sure if I recorded the 2204 and made it look like I was playing a Valve Jr. people would comment it sucks.

I know a LOT of great sounds and records were actually recorded with even tiny SS amps...for most part when I record guitars, I will also rather use my 10W SS Tech-21 than mike up my Ceria...and it even sounds better in many cases...it's interesting.

BUT yeah, when you stand in front of the amp, there is no comparison for the responsiveness and punch of a real tube amp. None.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!

Haven't experienced the Axe FX yet, have you?

I don't want to get into a full blown discussion on preamps / processors here on the general guitar forum, but the Axe FX is an entirely new paragigm and has raised the bar for preamp / processors sky high.

My rig plays and sounds like a real tube rig.

Robert, mods - Why don't we move this thread to the amp forum where we can engage in a proper spirited discussion?

 

[Suhnton]

BUT yeah, when you stand in front of the amp, there is no comparison for the responsiveness and punch of a real tube amp. None.

I agree.
Years ago, when racks were all the rage, I had an ADA preamp going into a Yamaha power amp (MOSFET). It sounded very cold. I changed the ADA out to a Lee Jackson tube preamp, same thing.
Nowadays I just use stompboxes into a Fender Twin (not mine, it's down at the rehearsal room), and it sounds MUCH better (either that or my hearing had deteriorated).

 

[pes_laul]

haha awesome. I havent seen invader zim in a long time

 

[Plank_Spanker]

I agree.
Years ago, when racks were all the rage, I had an ADA preamp going into a Yamaha power amp (MOSFET). It sounded very cold. I changed the ADA out to a Lee Jackson tube preamp, same thing.
Nowadays I just use stompboxes into a Fender Twin (not mine, it's down at the rehearsal room), and it sounds MUCH better (either that or my hearing had deteriorated).

Again, all I can say is that the Axe FX is changing all of that. I grew up playing tube amps, and own a very nice one now. I didn't jump into building a rack with the Axe FX lightly at all. It really does sound and respond like a real tube amp - no fizz, "can of bees", digital artifacts.....................cleans up when played soft or guitar volume dialed down, punchy like a real tube amp with plenty of thump, warm and vibrant, and infinitely tweakable to whatever pleases you.

I'm not saying it makes tube amps obsolete. I'm just saying that the Axe FX is not the fizz box that people normally assume with rack processors. Cliff Chase at Fractal Audio is changing the game.

 

[deeaa]

I'd love to check out the AxeFX but they are VERY rare over here as of yet, never seen one, and they cost a lot of money as well.

It does seem to have some excellent sounds, I doubt not that it is the cutting edge of processors & that it sounds like a tube amp...

BUT the problem with them processors...and all rack gear etc...is they have so many options. Even the simple ones like my Peavey Rockmaster/60-60/4x12" rig had way too many options for the sound.

You play it and it's great, the next day it sounds not so good, tweak, play, tweak, play...listen to a track you recorded a week ago and wonder why you ditched THOSE settings it was best ever...

It's like being in a candyland when I use stuff like that. I get no playing done, because all the time goes into tweaking the gear. You get a GREAT sound and five minutes later you're like well, maybe it would work better like this...or this...and when we're talking digital menus and connection options...POD XT, GT-6 etc...I've spent countless hours tweaking 'em and gotten really good sounds too but...it's always just tweaking. The best sound is always just around the corner or it was the last piece of gear you had after all, not this new one.

What I've done for a good while now is I only use one type of guitar, always EMG85+SA and I use only one amp setting - I just got my Ceriatone volume where I want it to be and took off the knobs and screwed them back on at 12 o clock position so I never have to rememer how they were set...just make sure they're at 12 and go. NEVER change my sound or settings any more.

Same with my Tech-21...I have it on clean with high gain and the only thing I adjust on it is the reverb amount.

ALL the othe adjustments for sound I get from pedals, which I also adjust very little/rarely, and my guitar volume.

And you know what...it still sounds a bit different every single time I play but I just ignore it and play...and I've never been happier with my guitars sound for a looooog time now.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Dee,

You are player who knows what he wants and knows how to get it..................not many can say that with confidence. :bravo:

I'm not a "candy land" user of the Axe FX. I have nine patches that are set solid for gigs, and I stay pat with them. The Marshall and Vox models I have loaded sound excellent consistently - gig after gig.

If new tunes come up needing new sounds, I know I can make it happen with the Axe FX.....................but tinkering with it just to tinker is not something I do.

 

[deeaa]

Well

It's great if one can resist tinkering...it's really hard for me, if a possibility exists certainly if different sounds are required, like in cover bands etc. that'd be a great machine I bet.

 

[tunghaichuan]

One of the advantages of the Axe FX is that it is so flexible. It is a tweaker's wet dream.

However, as you've pointed out, P_S, you have it in "set and forget mode." It is also great in this regard. Just because it is flexible and you absolute power of adjustment over the parameters, doesn't mean you have to.

tung

Dee,

You are player who knows what he wants and knows how to get it..................not many can say that with confidence. :bravo:

I'm not a "candy land" user of the Axe FX. I have nine patches that are set solid for gigs, and I stay pat with them. The Marshall and Vox models I have loaded sound excellent consistently - gig after gig.

If new tunes come up needing new sounds, I know I can make it happen with the Axe FX.....................but tinkering with it just to tinker is not something I do.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

One of the advantages of the Axe FX is that it is so flexible. It is a tweaker's wet dream.

However, as you've pointed out, P_S, you have it in "set and forget mode." It is also great in this regard. Just because it is flexible and you absolute power of adjustment over the parameters, doesn't mean you have to.

tung

It's great to have that power at my disposal with the Axe FX. If I need a new sound, I know I can get it. I'm not afraid to dig right into it looking for a new sound, but once I have it to my likings, I load a preset with it and move on.

It is fun to hook it up to my PC with the MIDI interface and play with the editor, though........................

 

[deeaa]

I bet...if they were available here, I'd be very tempted...I need a good d/i machine---the tech21 is good but...