Set Neck problems

[oldun]

Having recently bought MY SG 1st kit attempt, I now read set necks are a pain in the neck, being prone to failures, neck coming adrift from body etc, (now I find out) anyway I'm thinking about dowelling for extra strength, I was going to use 2 x 1/4" steel pins until I thought they could effect the magnetic field of the PUP, so now I'm thinking wooden dowells , biggest worry is lack of timber thickness for dowells, it's suggested also that glued necks don't hold sustain as good as bolt on, hence my thinking about dowelling as a plus, if anyone has any thoughts on this I'd be very interested to hear.
BTW after looking around I now see thru body neck style.

 

[Tibernius]

I've got 4 set-neck guitars (two of them cost under $200 each so they're not exactly high end) and I've never had any problems with the neck-body join on any of them. I've found they actually have more sustain then bolt-on neck guitars as well, mainly because it transfers to the body of the guitar better.

 

[Katastrophe]

Having recently bought MY SG 1st kit attempt, I now read set necks are a pain in the neck, being prone to failures, neck coming adrift from body etc, (now I find out) anyway I'm thinking about dowelling for extra strength

IMO, (and I'm not a guitar builder or luthier) if you use the right glue, and the neck tenon is long enough, there shouldn't be a problem. Just about every major guitar company (including Fender), has made a set neck guitar with desirable results.

Also, IMO, every neck/body joint is prone to failure if abused. Bolt on necks can work themselves loose over time and with excessive removal of the neck. Glue in a set neck can fail, and the neck can separate. In a neck through, the glue holding the body "wings" can fail, too, separating the neck from the body.

However, there are examples from each type where the guitar has lasted a looooooooong time, especially when well taken care of.

 

[Andy]

with a good wood glue (gibson uses titebond 50) the joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood, chances of a clean break are very slim.
If the neck seperates from the body,,,something is wrong,,or mabey the guitar is very old construction using hyde glue possibly ? or there were gaps in the original joint ?

one way to loosen the glue joint would be heat/steam so, if it was left in the sun, I could imagine that being possible.

 

[oldun]

I've got 4 set-neck guitars (two of them cost under $200 each so they're not exactly high end) and I've never had any problems with the neck-body join on any of them. I've found they actually have more sustain then bolt-on neck guitars as well, mainly because it transfers to the body of the guitar better.

Thanks Tibernius,
you can only go by what you experience and what you have found has been good, probably like do you prefer Ford or Chev.

 

[oldun]

IMO, (and I'm not a guitar builder or luthier) if you use the right glue, and the neck tenon is long enough, there shouldn't be a problem. Just about every major guitar company (including Fender), has made a set neck guitar with desirable results.

Also, IMO, every neck/body joint is prone to failure if abused. Bolt on necks can work themselves loose over time and with excessive removal of the neck. Glue in a set neck can fail, and the neck can separate. In a neck through, the glue holding the body "wings" can fail, too, separating the neck from the body.

However, there are examples from each type where the guitar has lasted a looooooooong time, especially when well taken care of.

Well Katastrophe,
I'm thinking "The who" would have been good testers of guitar build, (think I've just given my age away), appreciate your input thanks.

 

[oldun]

with a good wood glue (gibson uses titebond 50) the joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood, chances of a clean break are very slim.
If the neck seperates from the body,,,something is wrong,,or mabey the guitar is very old construction using hyde glue possibly ? or there were gaps in the original joint ?

one way to loosen the glue joint would be heat/steam so, if it was left in the sun, I could imagine that being possible.

Thanks Andy,
think I've heard of Titebond, and I seem to remember reading somewhere you need to be able to remove the neck if needed by using heat, and as you say a good tight neck fit.

 

[deeaa]

Methinks the biggest problem with the set neck construction usually is that the woods may set a little differently, i.e. the neck woods might 'shrink' a little causing the level of the neck wood in contrast to the body wood to be ever so slightly lower than originally intended, and causing the fretboard to have a slight 'hump' where the neck meets the body. (seen that on old and new guitars, even Gibsons) And if not a 'hump' at least the section over/at the body will be flat and the natural bow of the neck happens only later on the guitar, making set neck guitar's action and truss rod adjustments more difficult and/or dependent on woods and build quality.

In terms of sustain, I don't find much absolute difference between set/bolt neck guitars...the sound and type of sustain is different, yes, the sustaining frequencies are different, but in terms of absolute sustain there are bigger factors at play...I once did this test by plugging in setneck, boltneck and also Floyd-equipped axes with identical pups into my DAW and dropped a pen on the low strings from the same altitude (same power hit) and checked the recorded waveforms for decay etc. and for some reason on the floyd guitar the resulting waveform was the longest i.e. there was most actual sustain, which was quite contrary to general idea how it should have been.

But as for the OT normal glue should be plenty good for structural strenght, just make sure you don't push the neck too low in the pocket, better have the fretboard base a few thousand milles higher than the guitar face than the other way around in a few years.

 

[oldun]

Methinks the biggest problem with the set neck construction usually is that the woods may set a little differently, i.e. the neck woods might 'shrink' a little causing the level of the neck wood in contrast to the body wood to be ever so slightly lower than originally intended,.

]

Well deeaa,
thank you for the info, you have raised a very good point, something I would have overlooked I'm sure, I just checked mine and I have the fretboard 2.5mm above the body, even checked string height, all this temporary as it's still just a loose kit, but it looks like I can get a real low action if wanted, I have even glued 2 bits of wood together clamped, in 3 days I'll test the glue joint to destruction before I use it on the SG.
Yes timber shrinkage even with so called seasoned KD still shrinks.
Thanks again for your input, it's very much appreciated.:thumbsup

 

[Katastrophe]

Well Katastrophe,
I'm thinking "The who" would have been good testers of guitar build, (think I've just given my age away), appreciate your input thanks.

I think ol' Pete probably should have worked for a demolition crew if music hadn't worked out.

 

[oldun]

I think ol' Pete probably should have worked for a demolition crew if music hadn't worked out.

You wouldn't want him as a roadie !!