Set-up Measurements

[Tim]

I have a Squire Telecaster Custom which is a hybrid that fuses a ’72 Tele Custom with a Tele Deluxe. This guitar has two high-output humbuckers, a three-way pickup selector switch, and independent volume and tone controls. It has a 7.25” neck radius.

I am following Mr. Gearhead instructions on set up that states the below measurements:

Relief = .012”

Action = Bass - 5/64”, Treble – 4/64”

Pickup Height = Bass – 4/64”, Treble – 4.64”

Are these measurements that critical? When I set up my guitar with these measurements, I have a lot of string buzz at all frets. When I raise the action to Bass = 8/64” and Treble = 7/64”, most of the buzzing disappears except at the higher frets (10 and above). Bar chords seem somewhat clear at the lower frets. Solos played above the 10th fret sound somewhat clear but with a fuzz sound.

I was told that electric guitars should buzz some. I am not sure how much is “some”!

I guess I am considered an aggressive player, so my measurements would be higher than most. Which would be better, higher relief or higher action?

Thanks.


Tim

PS This condition also applies to my Strat copy.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

"Set Up" on your own guitar is a very personal thing. Those measurements are factory specs and are a good reference to start out with. Set up your string height to what feels best for you. Make them as low as you can (or want) to just above the point where they start to buzz on certain strings. I put mine where they feel comfortable when playing chords or just low enough where I can still bend without them fretting out against the frets. I also tend to try and match the radius on my neck. Start out slow on the string adjustments. Raise them little by little until you get buzzes out especially higher up on your neck (your soloing problem area). Take your high B or E string up above near your highest fret and just bend it a whole tone and listen for buzzes or fret out. If it buzzes or frets out raise your strings on that side of the bridge only. Do this until you can clearly bend all crazy without hearing a buzz. Also check to make sure your bends don't buzz all the way from the 1st fret to the last...bending as you go up. That will be the last check for the higher string side of the bridge. If your neck is straight it shouldn't be that high off the fretboard. Repeat for the lower strings down lower on the neck and only raise on that side of the bridge.

Before you start setting your string heights make sure your neck is STRAIGHT. Tighten or loosen your truss rod as reqd...make a visual inspection down the length of the neck. Again make small adjustments.

Pickups is another personal thing but it also depends on what kind of pickups you have. If you have hot pickups on your guitars I would suggest setting them a little lower than normal (or per the spec) because you don't want your sound getting too distorted and you also don't want the pickup magnets pulling down on your strings giving you false tones and horrible intonation problems. Your guitar will sound differently too when you set the pickup heights to various dimensions from your strings. Ideally, fret down all your strings at the last fret near your neck pickup...and raise or lower the neck pickup so that it's at a decent distance from the strings. Do the same for the bridge pickup. On strat type guitars I set the neck pup height then set the same angle for each remaining pup but each one raised slightly higher than the neck in direct relationship to the distance of the strings down by the bridge so that each pickup is a little higher as you get down to the bridge.

 

[Tim]

Thanks T2TB,

I will try the above methods this weekend. But, I do have two questions.

First you mentioned “Before you start setting your string heights make sure your neck is STRAIGHT”. Just what is straight” Is it straight or is it .012” or somewhere in between? Does relief affect action?

Second, just how high can I go to stop string buzz with the action (6/64, 7/64, 8/64, 9/64)? If I go too high will it interfere with chording?

Finally, you mentioned going a little lower than normal (or per the spec) on the pickup height.

My problem with most of you older players is your terminology, a little of this, a tab of that. How much is “a little lower than normal”? 1/64, 2/64, 3/64?

Remember, I am new at this. It would be very easy for me to go right past the “sweet spot”. This is a phase I heard used while adjusting pickups. I never did hear that sweet spot.

But, I sure do appreciate the help. One day I will be beyond a newbie.

Tim

 

[Tone2TheBone]

I apologize for the techical jargon. I'm making assumptions here anytime I explain things to people. I'll try to explain them carefully.

A straight neck means that it will look straight when you gaze down the neck from the bottom of your guitar. Like when you hold it out in front of you in space...and look down the fretboard to the nut. A person can visually see if their guitar neck is straight or curved or not...that is to say if the fret board is laying flat or if it is curved up or curved down. In your guitar neck is a truss rod which is used to straighten out the neck by turning the adjustment nut. Its the thing that an allen wrench fits into which you can turn in to make tighter...or turn out to make looser. I'm trying to paraphrase here so bear with me. hahahaha If you look down the guitar neck and notice that the fret board curves upward near the nut...then it means you need to TIGHTEN your truss rod (making slight clockwise turns of the rod with the allen wrench). If the fretboard curves the opposite way and your strings are fretting out all the time then it means the truss rod is too tight and you need to LOOSEN it (making slight counter clockwise turns of the rod with the allen wrench). I would guess that for the most part...your guitar is either going to be straight or curved upward (loose). I haven't seen too many guitars that are curved downwards but I'm sure some truss rods are too tight on some guitars...depends on where you live in the world as humidity and altitude play the major role in why you need to adjust the neck in the first place.

I hope this helps a little. When people talk about a neck being straight there are no "measurements" at all. It's all a visual inspection of the neck as you look down on it.

As a comparison for you I'll give you my measurements on my guitars......

My Les Paul has 2 humbuckers so for each pickup...

.....Neck pickup - my strings are about an 1/8 of an inch from the bottom of the strings when you fret them all down on the last fret. That is about the thickness of 2 quarters.

.....Bridge pickup is about 3/8 of an inch from the bottom of my strings when you fret them down at the last fret. That is about the thickness of 2 quarters and a dime.

These distances are level from low strings to high. so 1/8th of an inch level on the high E string...and 1/8th of an inch level on the low E string. Same for bridge pickup.

On the Stratocaster (3 single coil pickups)

......Neck pickup - strings are about 1/4 of an inch from pole magnets on the single coils. (4 quarters thick)


.....Middle pickup - about 5 quarters thick.

.....Bridge pickup - about 6 quarters thick.

It's not all that critical really...these are just examples to help you see. If you're barely starting out you won't notice the difference in heights just yet. It all comes from experience. Just set them up so that they sound good to you and they don't interfere with your strings.

 

[Guitar-Chris]

A straight neck means that it will look straight when you gaze down the neck from the bottom of your guitar. Like when you hold it out in front of you in space...and look down the fretboard to the nut. A person can visually see if their guitar neck is straight or curved or not...that is to say if the fret board is laying flat or if it is curved up or curved down.

Perhaps i misunderstood you, but...

.. hm, most guitar techs and even every literature says, that there has to be a neck relief. If the lowest E-String is pushed on the 1st fret and at the same time at the 15 fret, there should be a gap between the fret an the underside of the E-string. A good suggestion would be a gap of 0.010" to 0.012" or about 0.25 mm. If the gap isn't there, there is a good chance that the strings are buzzing on every fret. If the gap is to big, theres no buz in the lower fret, but there will be buzzing on the fret 8/9 and higher.

So, I think the neck of Tim's guitar is "to much bow", the relief is to high.

I now way should there be a bump in the neck (negative relief) with all things buzzing.

Then, if the relief is optimal, you should adjust the action (string hight). That is very much a personal thing as you wrote very right. So i don't have to add anything to that.

Only one thing: Test the buzzing only, when connected to the amp. On most guitars you can hear buzzing when played dry, but you cannot hear anything over the amp. So that' ok.

 

[Tim]

My Les Paul has 2 humbuckers so for each pickup...

.....Neck pickup - my strings are about an 1/8 of an inch from the bottom of the strings when you fret them all down on the last fret. That is about the thickness of 2 quarters.

.....Bridge pickup is about 3/8 of an inch from the bottom of my strings when you fret them down at the last fret. That is about the thickness of 2 quarters and a dime.

These distances are level from low strings to high. so 1/8th of an inch level on the high E string...and 1/8th of an inch level on the low E string. Same for bridge pickup

Ok this means 1/8 = 8/64”
And 3/8 = 21/64”

On the Stratocaster (3 single coil pickups)

......Neck pickup - strings are about 1/4 of an inch from pole magnets on the single coils. (4 quarters thick)

.....Middle pickup - about 5 quarters thick.

.....Bridge pickup - about 6 quarters thick.

Also ¼ = 16/64”
Etc, etc

Sorry, I am an analytical kind of guy. With 39 years of mechanical background in aeronautics, what do you expect?

From what Chris has stated then a .010 - .012” relief is good.

If action goes up, then relief can be lowered. Its all in the strumming power used by the guitarist.

I have decided it is all a magical formula. It is so simple, that it is hard to grasp. I have lots to learn.

Thanks guys.

Tim

 

[Tone2TheBone]

I know about the neck relief.

I don't think most people would see minute differences in gaps though.

To me there are too many variables to be THAT exact with measurements. Some frets are different thicknesses...some medium, some jumbo some flat jumbo...some woods bend different ways...some fretwork is lousy...some guitar necks are better than others. You can't judge a neck to be the same and have exact measurement requirements fit for all necks. In THEORY yeah sure....but in real life with so many different players and guitars? Also with the quality of some guitars and necks? I've seen really bad fretwork on cheaper guitars. If you tried to measure relief gaps on those...you'd be doing it till you were blue in the face simply because the fret wires are not all laying flat on the board. Having said this, neck relief is a very good measuring tool for exacting requirements, but at the same time making sure you have a straight enough neck down the board by eyeballing it AND have the guitar play well without fretting out or buzzing is enough for the average player.

For my guitars...as long as the neck looks straight it plays great with no buzzes. I don't press too hard on the frets and make them go out of tune or buzz. My string height is about average. Not too high not too low. I'm reasonable sure without measuring mine, that I have some amount of neck relief.

Maybe Tim you could take your guitar in to a shop and have someone check the neck etc. for you if you are having trouble understanding all of this. But if you mess with your own guitar its better because it makes you understand how it works. Good luck whatever you do.

 

[Tim]

There is excellent information being passed on here. Its not that I do not understand nor to timid to try. It was just hard for me to gage what “a little” relief meant.

It is like a well seasoned cook saying; add a small amount of this or a pinch of salt. By who’s and what size figure do we measure a pinch of salt. The little old grandma who has been cooking for centuries, or the new 7ft 8 inch Swede (no joke intended there SuperSwede) with gigantic fingers?

Experience goes a long way and “IS” the best teacher. It is time for me to learn.


Tim

 

[Guitar-Chris]

I know about the neck relief.

I have absolutely no doubt about this!

If I'm setting up my own guitars, I do set the neck relief only by viewing over the neck from the headstock side. In my personal view, then you have to see a very small relief. Then I press down the strings as mentioned, have a control look and ready.

But I also check the correct fretting with a steel ruler....

 

[SuperSwede]

Whoa, it would be possible to play amazing chords with gigantic fingers

I just want to add that you should not be playing with the truss rod too much if you dont know exactly what you are doing! You could do more harm than good, we had a few of these coming in when I worked at the local music store a couple of years ago. The guitar tech we sent such guitars to could not always adjust them straight again.

 

[Guitar-Chris]

If action goes up, then relief can be lowered. Its all in the strumming power used by the guitarist.

Hm, if we do not speak about an action of 1" at the 12th fret , this is not really right!

In general high action prevents from buzzing. But when you increase the relief, your frets at the - let's say 7 to 9 fret - are in a "vally". And then the action of the string over the 10th fret as a result is to low for avoiding buzzing, you know what i mean?

( Hey why am I explaning such dificult things in an english board? It is also hard for me in my mother language )

 

[Guitar-Chris]

Whoa, it would be possible to play amazing chords with gigantic fingers

:R

Hey, never heard of two hand tapping? That's my technique. Without this, you won't be able to set the relief absolutely correct!

 

[Tim]

In general high action prevents from buzzing. But when you increase the relief, your frets at the - let's say 7 to 9 fret - are in a "vally". And then the action of the string over the 10th fret as a result is to low for avoiding buzzing, you know what i mean?

I never gave this a though .. so in this case less is better. So going to .008 or .006 could be more deisrable?

( Hey why am I explaning such dificult things in an english board? It is also hard for me in my mother language )

Your english is fine with me!

 

[SuperSwede]

:R

Hey, never heard of two hand tapping? That's my technique. Without this, you won't be able to set the relief absolutely correct!

I must admit that my tapping technique could benefit by some practice :R

 

[Guitar-Chris]

I never gave this a though .. so in this case less is better. So going to .008 or .006 could be more deisrable?

No, because then, if you play on the 1st to 5th fret, the strings have no "air" to vibrate/oscillate and they hit the frets - again buzz. Again - this kind of buzz can be eleminated by increasing the action.

So after all:Action shoul be low for comfortable playing. But then neck relief must be just "enough" to let the strings "swing" when playing lower frets and not to high for not causing buzz on the higher fret.


Everything depends!


Often I see guitars of beginners brought to me, beceaus "they don't feel right".

Then it turns out, that they first increased neck relief because of buzzing in the lower frets. Then again they increased action because of buzzing in the higher frets, and so on. After all: They have an extreme bow and very high action.

Begin with standard parameter (minimal relief to nearly straight, normal action) After adjusting relief: Wait a while, because the neck sometimes goes slow into new position (over ours).

An: Don't get nervous about some buzzing. Thats quite normal until every single note is buzzing. String gauge also has influence on buzzing!

 

[Tim]

Then it turns out, that they first increased neck relief because of buzzing in the lower frets. Then again they increased action because of buzzing in the higher frets, and so on. After all: They have an extreme bow and very high action.

So which comes first the chicken (relief) or the egg (action). What is the best why to start this episode? Dial in .010" relief and then work on action/buzzing, or set the action and work with the relief(not going to far below or too high) the spec?

 

[Guitar-Chris]

So which comes first the chicken (relief) or the egg (action). What is the best why to start this episode? Dial in .010" relief and then work on action/buzzing, or set the action and work with the relief(not going to far below or too high) the spec?

As SuperSwede mentioned, don't change the relief to often or to extreme. The mechanic of the trussrod can be damaged very easyly.

So I would suggest: Dial in the relief at about .010" (That is almost straight as Tone2theBone mentioned). Then go on with optimizing the action.

And: Don't forget to play the rock'n'roll. You're not a mechnic, you are a musician, aren't you?


Christian

 

[Tim]

I like the new title and career.

 

[Tim]

Hey Guys,

I just want to say thanks for all your help the past few days. I perform a new setup on my Squire Custom Tele last night. Today I plugged into the VOX AD30VT and WOW what a difference. I actually have a good tone. I have good bass, mids and trebles. I even have a nice clear tone.

I put those humbuckers down from ¼ to 1/8” as suggested. I guess one must deviated from instructions when the results are not as expected.

Now I must reset my settings on the VOX and start learning to play the guitar.

I am wondering if this affected my sound going into the PA system, which I discussed in a thread under “Open Mic”.

The wait is going to kill me to see if it solves that problem.

I will also do a re-setup on my other guitars per your suggestions.

Thanks again to all.

Tim

 

[Tim]

Well I am enjoying the heck out of my new sound (thanks to a few guys on this forum). I have been playing a few days now and I am very happy with the clean tone. I even re-did my other 2 guitars by lowering the pick-ups. I am guessing with the picks-ups being so close to the strings, the tone would have been fuzz and distorted no matter what amp I used.

I guess it is time for me to get serious with my learning how to play the guitar. I am surfing the net to find a decent instructional website. I am still open for any DVDs anybody can recommend for learning. I picked up a DVD with Albert Lee as the host. Boy can that guy pick or what! This has taught me to be more versatile in my music listening venue. I need to be opened to more players regardless the style they play.

Now as any guitar player will do, I want to learn how to use effects. I will be posting a few questions under the topic of “Pedal”.

I hope I am nor asking too many questions for you more expert players. I have learned more about guitars from the members on this board than anywhere else I have been. I am glad I found this forum.

Enjoy your weekend and keep pickin”.

Tim

 

[6STRINGS 9LIVES]

Hey Tim , when learning you can never ask too many questions, i've read some of your posts and my understanding is that you are a new player , here are a couple of suggestions for what its worth . Go to a chord /tab site and find the chords for 4 songs that you are familiar with , these sites will include the chords and lyrics as well as diagrams for the chords for each song , stick with just 4 and practice , practice them till you know them inside out , play them in the dark , start thinking a chord or two ahead as you become familiar with the tune , if unsure download the song and listen , then play along .. heres a great site for finding chords and tabs for popular songs .. www.chordie.com
Dont wory about TONE, its such a subjective thing ..learn to play in tune ..as far as set ups are concerned heres a great site http://www.fender.com/support/ .. also www.mrgearhead.com all the set up info you will need can be found there , dont touch the truss rod if you dont know what you are doing , its easy to mess it up ... finally get out and see and listen to as many live players as you can , listen to how they sound , look at how they put it all together ..these are just some basic guidelines , remember that nobody knows it all and you have to learn at your own pace , i'll guarantee that one day you will have your eurika day when it will come easy and you will amaze yourself ...and you will play for hours and forget what time it is ...the main thing is to keep it simple( dont get bogged down with effects and amp tweaking that will come ) and give yourself time, and keep it fun .. 6S9L

 

[Nelskie]

Hey Tim - 69SL has some great suggestions for a beginning player such as yourself. Everyone here on this forum has shared the experience of being a new player, esp. from the standpoint of wanting to learn. About (9) or (10) years ago, I decided to re-commit myself to learning the guitar. Although I'd been playing for some (13) or so years at that point, I wanted more out of my playing. One thing that really helped me out was getting a book called "Scales & Modes for Guitar" by Steve Hall and Ron Manus. The book came with a CD that demonstrated the techniques in the book. So, not only were you learning from a visual (book) standpoint, you were also hearing it on the CD. Kind of a "double-whammy", so to speak. This format of learning helped me out immensely, and allowed me to really understand what I was actually playing. Plus, you can go over the lesson as many times as you like, allowing you to learn at your own pace. The Scales & Modes book / CD package was all of $10. Most defnintely worth the money. Later on, after I had mastered the lessons in that book, I bought another - "Fretboard Roadmaps", by Fred Skudlow (a Hal Leonard book) - yet another excellent resource for chord patterns. I think that one (which also included a CD) was around $13. So, for under $25, you can have (2) great books that are packed with information. Both of these books are available at Music Books Plus - here are the links:

http://musicbooksplus.com/basix-scales-modes-p-91.html?affiliate_banner_id=1&ref=66
http://musicbooksplus.com/fretboard....html?osCsid=6787e7817ba50cae0e1e3da5ffb935fa

Chord / scale books might be another useful tool for you to consider - esp. when it comes to learning some basic scales & chord progressions. I still refer to both of these books often, and consider them valuable playing resources. Like 69SL has already said, make sure you keep it fun. If you're having fun and enjoying yourself, the learning will come naturally. Here's wishing you good playing.

 

[Tim]

Ok! And thanks guys.

Looks like I have a long road to hoe (so to speak). But I am in for the whole commitment, which includes purchasing, reading, studying, practicing and memorizing. I will look for the books at the local B&N. They carry a lot of guitar books there.

Nelskie, if I get suck or have questions, you maybe the first person I contact.

Thanks

 

[Nelskie]

Anytime, my friend.