SG cravings

[deeaa]

Well,

I have this strange craving after an SG. I almost pulled the trigger on an Epi G400 Gothic, thinking I could mod it some towards a more normal SG style...it was 150€ ($200) and local. But, the necks on those G400's are reported to be too lax so I passed at least for now. Any ideas on that issue? I have a buddy who has both the epi and the gibson, and he says the only things he considers as big differences, since he's swapped to Seymours on both anyway, are that the neck is much softer and lax on the epi and the frets wear significantly quicker.

There's plenty of Gibson SG's used for $1200 or so, but that's outta my league, although I'm even dreaming of maybe getting one some day if I sell some excess gear or guitars.

But, nowI went to see a new one in store and it struck me real odd - it was certainly genuine with real case and all, but sheesh, the bridge was SO high off the body it seemed ridiculous to me. I mean, the bridge pup was so high up from the pickguard I doubt there was any string there underneath, it pretty much showed entirely, and the stopbar was like 1/2 inch off the body and STILL it had a normal angle over the bridge.

What's with that? How come the Gibson had so much steeper a neck angle - is that common on Gibson SG's or is it just another example of a lemon from Gibson?

 

[Duffy]

I've got two Epi SG G400's.

The '66 copy of the Gibson Standard with the full pickguard is probably built more sturdy. It has a more C shaped neck than my other one and has a beautiful heritage cherry gloss finish with great wood grain showing thru. Personally I like the stock pickups and have left them in for the few years I've owned the guitar. It is a nice guitar that is fun to play and sounds different than an LP, moreso than you might think.

The other one I just got a few months ago and it was less expensive. It's a G400 Faded in heritage cherry satin finish, with the small tear drop pickguard below the strings, and the pickups mounted in pickup rings to the mahogany body. I really like the finish, but it is more layed back and less strikingly beautiful than the gloss one. The pickups on it sound great too and are probably the same as the other one although the plastic on them when I got it said they were "Ceramic 8's", which I doubt on a guitar as inexpensive as that, but who knows. This one has a thin, shallow C neck on it compared to the '66 SG copy, "School of Rock" limitted edition gloss one.

Going by my experience I would say that if you are looking for a more heavy duty guitar to get the more expensive '66 copy Epi with the full pickguard, but I think you would have lots of fun with either of the guitars. Both of them are set neck guitars. There are some other G400's that are heavy duty that have the small tear drop pickguard. One of them would probably be heavier duty than the Epi SG Faded, seemingly.

I don't know how they would take real heavy strings, but I have them strung with nines. They bodies are nice and thin and comfortably sculpted. They are nice and light compared to my heavy LP's, but I like a heavy guitar.

I just bought a used PRS SE Singlecut tremolo tobacco sunburst flammed maple top guitar that resonates acoustically so nice. It is light and sounds and plays great, not to mention that it looks great. A lot of guys replace the stock PRS pickups but I like them and they have a sort of distortion to them that hits the preamp real nice, and sustains forever with my Peavey 6505+ combo high gain amp. I just ordered Grover mini locking tuners for it and they should make using the tremolo a little more stable in the tuning area. The tremolo on it is nicer than the Fenders six screw type in my opinion, and the trem arm doesn't look out of place like it does on so many LP type guitars.

Anyway, a Gibson Standard SG would be a beautiful thing to have as long as you got a good one without the tail piece being jacked all the way up and the pickup raised sky high. There must be some problem there. I like to see the stop bar pretty low, starting out. I wouldn't be surprised if there is something wrong with the neck on that one, like a back bow or something - but it could be something that a good set up would correct.

If I get a Gibson SG Standard I'm going to get it from a place that I can return it to if I'm not happy with the quality control. I also want to be able to bring it back and have it set up right, or even better, have it set up right, right there at the store before I take possession of it.

The "School of Rock" '66 one is an awesome inexpensive guitar in my opinion. I think you could be happy with a G400, considering the price difference and your majorly developed guitar engineering abilities, as so well evidenced by your awesome guitar projects. I could see you producing a real cool SG.

I had a Gibson Faded SG in worn brown that was quite nice, that was stolen from me. I think the '66 School of Rock version Epi sounds just as good, plays as good, and looks better. Both have full pickguards.

 

[otaypanky]

It's probably only a matter of a little time before you fall victim to your SG gas attack Deeaa


where was your SG stolen Duffy?

 

[tunghaichuan]

I've always wanted an SG. This is reason enough for me:

 

[Duffy]

A relative I took in that was in trouble over his head ripped me off for that and a real nice Fender Hwy One, plus a lot of other things and other vandalism amounting to a few thousand dollars. It happened in Pennsylvania at my old marital property during my separation, prior to my divorce and moving in with my fiance Charity farther up North in the state. It was a miserable time, one burgulary of my house after another, and the police, of course, were useless even though they told me they knew who did it. I finally had him prosecuted for assaulting me only a month or so after my last surgery - 14 inch belt line incision and deep surgery. I let him plea bargain but the judge wanted to hammer him hard. I guess it was something like assaulting a disabled person. The judges don't like that type of thing and I had Emergency Room reports.

Insurance got me a new Fender American strat and a Michael Kelly Patriot Custom, but I still don't have a Gibson. Maybe some day. One thing I have though is a new happy and peaceful life, after my moving on and getting a divorce.

I still worry about getting burgularized though, but I live in a rural neighborhood now with more people around. Before I lived in a semi isolated area.

The thieves only take your best stuff.

 

[ZMAN]

Well,

I have this strange craving after an SG. I almost pulled the trigger on an Epi G400 Gothic, thinking I could mod it some towards a more normal SG style...it was 150€ ($200) and local. But, the necks on those G400's are reported to be too lax so I passed at least for now. Any ideas on that issue? I have a buddy who has both the epi and the gibson, and he says the only things he considers as big differences, since he's swapped to Seymours on both anyway, are that the neck is much softer and lax on the epi and the frets wear significantly quicker.

There's plenty of Gibson SG's used for $1200 or so, but that's outta my league, although I'm even dreaming of maybe getting one some day if I sell some excess gear or guitars.

But, nowI went to see a new one in store and it struck me real odd - it was certainly genuine with real case and all, but sheesh, the bridge was SO high off the body it seemed ridiculous to me. I mean, the bridge pup was so high up from the pickguard I doubt there was any string there underneath, it pretty much showed entirely, and the stopbar was like 1/2 inch off the body and STILL it had a normal angle over the bridge.

What's with that? How come the Gibson had so much steeper a neck angle - is that common on Gibson SG's or is it just another example of a lemon from Gibson?

I recently succumb to the SG spell. I have owned one for 42 years and I really learned to play on it. It is a 1968 Sg speicial. I really don't play it a lot and sort of got side tracked with LPs and Strats. After playing my ES335 one day I decided to pull out my SG. It played so nice and i love the easy acces to the upper frets. I was looking for a guitar to leave at my vacation home and decided on a G400. I found one for 200 and after a pro set up which included a new nut, a fret levelling and some solder work I have a really sweet playing and sounding guitar, total cost 100 dollars. The only complaint I would have is that it is slightly neck heavy. A nice 3 inch strap took care of that.
I like that guitar so much I decided to look for a newer SG Standard. I found a 2004 in mint condition for 850 with a case.
I also got a pro set up done and that one only cost me 35 bucks. I have all my guitars set for a really low action. I have no issues with the bridge or tail piece. I notice that all of my Gibsons are set higher than the Epis, but have a much lower action, so it is just the nature of the beast.
I really love the new SGs and I only play them now. I really feel this was the guitar that I had been searching for and I had one all along. An excellent choice for your next guitar.

 

[tunghaichuan]

The only thing that gives me pause about the SG is that the one I tried a while back at GC was a neck diver. That drives me absolutely batsh*t. I know a strap helps, but a neck diving guitar is a deal breaker for me. Are they all like that?

 

[marnold]

The only thing that gives me pause about the SG is that the one I tried a while back at GC was a neck diver. That drives me absolutely batsh*t. I know a strap helps, but a neck diving guitar is a deal breaker for me. Are they all like that?

I haven't tried that many, but that is their reputation. I like them in general, but neck dive would drive me nuts.

 

[Eric]

You know, an interesting note (to me, anyway) about neck-heavy/ankle-biting guitars...

I have a friend with whom I was closer a few years back. I knew him exclusively as an acoustic guitar player, but once when I was helping him move, I saw that he had an electric guitar. I borrowed it, and it was one of the first electric guitars I ever played. It was an Ibanez that looked a lot like an SG, and I also did not like how the weight was balanced in that guitar. Here's the weird thing: it was body heavy. It was hard to have it be balanced because it always wanted to point the headstock to the sky.

I guess the point is that weight balance is something I rarely think about in guitars, but having a body that's too heavy is something I NEVER think about. If something like a Les Paul doesn't have a heavy butt, I just tend to assume that nothing will.

I should try to borrow that guitar again to see what I think of it now...

 

[deeaa]

That's the thing that has kept me off SG's so far - neck heaviness. But I know they aren't all neck heavy, I've played one with super thin neck and it wasn't neck heavy to speak of. I do dislike neck heaviness a lot, whenever I have a guitar even a little like that I find a new spot for the strap button to rectify. Or shave the neck thinner and/or change to lighter/smaller tuners.

I have been thinking, maybe, if I could find a nice G400 I could do just that, shave the neck, find light tuners...small stuff like wider strap and even the 9v battery as far right as possible helps (need to route a small cavity for it though...

Thing is, if I fall for a used Gibson - which I doubt right now - I would hesitate to mod it much. So maybe I keep on looking for a nice G400.

 

[Duffy]

Dee, the G400 Faded have thinner necks, depth of cross section wise, and they are less expensive 299 US. You can spot them by the dull satin finish. I like mine a lot. Very nice guitar.

 

[Katastrophe]

I've played two Epi SGs, and while fit n' finish were outstanding, they both were so neck heavy that I just couldn't play them, even sitting down. I'd love to find a non-neck heavy model, though.

 

[deeaa]

Well for the neck heaviness, I'd guess that it could be rectified rather well by routing a little bigger cavity for the 9V battery than necessary and filling it with lead. I have plenty of lead bullets around, so I could just use a bunch of those hidden somewhere in the very end of the body, or use tire lead, I have some of that lying around too. Not too sure I'd leave the neck pickup there either, which would also help a little. And maybe I could shave the headstock end a little and indeed change the tuners for some lighter/smaller ones. There should be ways in any way.

Nice to know about the faded ones...there seems to be plenty of offering for also cheaper SG's but not one right now that makes me crave too much. I will want to play before play anyway so I expect it to take a while...

 

[Duffy]

Yeah, I was thinking shotgun slugs or something.

A real good idea might be to get a "steel" Bigsby vibrato, not the cheaper alluminium one. They make a steel one and an alluminium one. That would add usable weight and I've heard that the more heavy metal you have in the string path, it will have an effect on your tone. Supposedly Neil Young added a lot of extra weight to his old black LP and is a believer that adding substantial metal to the guitar affects the tone.

I don't see the SG as being a problem and think it handles real well with a four inch wide strap with the rawhide down. I made two from scratch myself. The average SG has its own characteristics, like a strat or tele - you love it, live with it, or mod it, if you even get one to begin with or decide to keep the one you have.

This first thing is like you said: finding one that you "crave", then you groove on it and maybe try to customize it.

 

[mrmudcat]

Moving or adding a strap button on the upper horn might help on neck heavy sg's.

I personally have nada problems on my sg.:AOK

 

[marnold]

Well for the neck heaviness, I'd guess that it could be rectified rather well by routing a little bigger cavity for the 9V battery than necessary and filling it with lead. I have plenty of lead bullets around, so I could just use a bunch of those hidden somewhere in the very end of the body, or use tire lead, I have some of that lying around too.

I know a guy around here who routed out part of a Tele for that purpose except that he used a big hunk of brass. It wasn't because of balance but because the guitar had otherwise no sustain.

 

[ZMAN]

As I mentioned I have three SGs. One Epi and Two Gibbies. The Gibbies, even the 68 with baseball bat neck are both perfectly balanced. The G400 is a little neck heavy. I talked to my tech about it and he said it is probably the grovers.
I thought about getting a set of lighter tuners but with the suede backed thicker strap took care of it.
He also mentioned putting one of those small workout strap weights on the bottom of your strap. He said he had another neck heavy guitar, not an SG that the workout weight did the job. He said it is only a few ounces that makes a difference.
That approach would save you shaving the neck or routing out the guitar. The workout weight woul not add much weight overall to a 7 pound guitar, that would make playing it a chore.
Maybe we could talk Brookwood into coming up with a weighted strap with removeable weights!

 

[mrmudcat]

One of OTAYPANKY'S thick leather straps with some conches or silver medalions should be all he needs!!!

 

[mapka]

I have an SG Classic with P90s in it. Yes, it is a little neck heavy and I have been told that the guitar overall is not as heavy as the original 60's SGs but it is a great guitar to play. Sounds good. has a nice 60's profile neck and was not overly expensive. I paid like 800 for mine about 2 years ago off of eBay and it still had the protective film on the plastic bits. Like a brand new guitar. Here is a youtube video of a friend playin it at a jam night. Little Fender amp is being used

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNNwOB46kfY

 

[hubberjub]

I'm also in the middle of a serious SG GAS attack. Currently my tastes are steering me more in the direction of a late 60s early 70s SG jr. or Special. Something with P90s.

 

[mapka]

I'm also in the middle of a serious SG GAS attack. Currently my tastes are steering me more in the direction of a late 60s early 70s SG jr. or Special. Something with P90s.

As I said in my post above, I have a '08 SG Classic with P-90s in it. It is suppose to be a copy of a late 60's SG. Not sure how accurate it is but it does sound good and play good.

 

[ZMAN]

LIke this?

I have owned it since 1969.

 

[mapka]

LIke this?

I have owned it since 1969.

Yes very simiiar to this. Mine does not have the vibrato but is the same color. You can see it in the video in my first post to this thread. BTW very nice guitar!

 

[hubberjub]

LIke this?

I have owned it since 1969.

Holy crap. That is beautiful.

 

[Bookkeeper's Son]

I had two SGs when I was a kid (late 60s/early 70s), a Standard and a Special. Since I got back into electrics in the past 4 years, I've noticed the claims of neck-heaviness on the forums I joined, yet I have no recollection whatsoever of that phenomenon. Strange....

 

[ZMAN]

Holy crap. That is beautiful.

It is a 1968 SG special with the P90s. It is a very basic guitar. It has the compensated bridge, without saddles, and the vibrolo tail piece. The Standards had the Chrome piece that went to the bottom strap button. chicklet type truners and dot neck. Completely stock.
A true baseball bat neck, and probably the lowest buzzless action I have ever seen. I have sold a lot of SGs from guys trying this one and then going directly to the shop to buy one!

 

[mapka]

I had two SGs when I was a kid (late 60s/early 70s), a Standard and a Special. Since I got back into electrics in the past 4 years, I've noticed the claims of neck-heaviness on the forums I joined, yet I have no recollection whatsoever of that phenomenon. Strange....

From what I have told the older SG used a different wood then mine does. My body is lighter and therefore the guitar is a little neck heavy. Not uncomfortably though.

 

[ZMAN]

I had two SGs when I was a kid (late 60s/early 70s), a Standard and a Special. Since I got back into electrics in the past 4 years, I've noticed the claims of neck-heaviness on the forums I joined, yet I have no recollection whatsoever of that phenomenon. Strange....

Both my 1968 and my 2007 Gibson SGs are perfectly balanced. My G400 is a neck diver. I think the reason is the Grover tuners on the G400. A lot of guys will say that there is no difference but I found a site that actually measured the Grovers VS the Keystone orginal style and the Grovers were heavier. On a well balance guitar that would be an issue.

 

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Both my 1968 and my 2007 Gibson SGs are perfectly balanced. My G400 is a neck diver. I think the reason is the Grover tuners on the G400. A lot of guys will say that there is no difference but I found a site that actually measured the Grovers VS the Keystone orginal style and the Grovers were heavier. On a well balance guitar that would be an issue.

I know that Grover Rotos are indeed heavy, because I noticed the difference when I installed a set on my A & L dread, which already had full sized cast tuners. The Grovers were heavier, the neck tended to fall more, which was something I didn't anticipate..

 

[Commodore 64]

If I can do some appropriate financial planning, I'm going to get an ESP Viper 256.