The Beginner's Thread

[tot_Ou_tard]

I thought I'd start a thread that discusses resources and ideas to help those new to playing guitars or basses get started or keep going.

Consider it a friendly lounge to ask questions & hang out.

I know that The Fret is in general very friendly to noobs, but I thought that it might be helpful to focus a little on the issues that we beginners have.

I've been playing for a 1 & 1/2 years & am completely self taught. Lately I've noticed that I haven't adequately focused on what the fingers that aren't fretting are doing.

In an attempt to be helpful & get out of the way of the fretting fingers they seemed to behave as if the fretboard was poison: lifting way up away from the fretboard. This has gotten in the way of my speed & fluidity.

I have slowed down and really focused on keeping all fingers relaxed & poised near the fretboard. It was very hard at first as if my brain could only control a few fingers at a time. This feeling like the brain isn't entirely wired up to the fingers is a very familiar feeling for those new to the guitar & for good reason. The brain only dedicates computational resoures to those tasks it deems important & up until I picked up a guitar my brain could go happily on its way doing other things.

I do notice that the next day after really trying to make my fingers behave *precisely* like I want them they are a little more cooperative. The feeling like this'll never work moves slowly into I can kind'a do it to this isn't so hard to wow why was I doing it the hard way this is much easier.

I found the following book

http://www.guitarprinciples.com/Book/further1.htm

It is helping me on my quest. Consider it "Zen & the Art of Hand Placement". It's a meditative book with weird little slow hand & finger excercises. It is a little too chatty, but its working for me. It is mainly focused on fingerpickers, but thats fine by me because I like to finger pick. There is an excercise whereby one *squeezes* the thumb slowly through the bass string which has helped me get a better bass line going while fingerpicking.

Here's another great thing to do. Watch Robert's hands (ar any other great guitarist). Don't pay attention to what notes he's playing, just watch the shape of his hand and how his fingers move.

 

[R_of_G]

good post tot

good start for starters. remember, as i have said before, 90% of a player's tone is the way their hands actually interact with the guitar, the other 10% is specific equipment. that's why when you hear something you know who it is whatever equipment they're playing, and conversely, why I could. hypothetically, walk onstage and pick up David Gilmour's guitar and not sound like David Gilmour. Good hand technique, per se, is important, but a balance has to be struck between "technically correct" hand posture and comfort. beginner guitarists have an advantage of working on technique before developing bad habits that become muscle memory [and are then much harder to fix]. that said, i wouldn't stress overnecessarily over posture issues at that expense of sounding the notes correctly in a way that allows you to move comfortably.

 

[Spudman]

Don't think that you have to have a lot of musical knowledge to be creative. Just knowing 5 different chord shapes and having an imagination can yield startling results. Follow your ears and your mind. Listen to that part of you that still dreams.

Experiment and invent.

 

[R_of_G]

Don't think that you have to have a lot of musical knowledge to be creative. Just knowing 5 different chord shapes and having an imagination can yield startling results. Follow your ears and your mind. Listen to that part of you that still dreams.

Experiment and invent.

excellent advice for players of all levels. speaking personally, i started playing for my own entertainment, and my most rewarding play comes when i remember that. when it sounds good to me, or like what i want it to sound like, or when the experiements work [even when they don't sometimes], it's about what happens when i'm actually playing that i find the most rewarding. if others are there and they like it, great, if not and i still did, i don't care. and spud is right, the creative possibilities are endless if you know only 5 shapes. in those shapes are all the notes you will ever need. once more, for those who have read my posts, it's all about tone for me. to put it another way, there are only 12 notes, and if you allow for the overlap of all possible scales in all possible modes, than EVERY note is the "right" next note, you just have to sell it [ie. how long do you hold it, do you bend it, does it start a new riff, if it's "off" does that become part of the sound texture, etc]. there's a LOT more to being creative than ripping through scale-based play [not that that isn't a huge part of learning to improvise] but it's what happens outside of the scales and outside of the normal tension-release approaches to playing that provide some of the more interesting sounds. the key, i have found, is to balance both, the experimental and the traditional, and find a sound that is truly yours.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Just to clarify, I'm not stressing about hand position. I'm actually enjoying the relaxed zen feel of becoming one with my fingers. I also concentrate on tone at the same time. Comfortable, relaxed, hands make flowing tone much easier as one is not trying to

*JUMP*


awkwardly to the next postion. Everything is planned out so the fingers have to do minimal work.

After focusing on my fingers I just let loose & play. Everything flows more freely & is a lot more fun.

I agree with Spud. If you know 5 chords, then just play them in different orders & with different rhythms.

 

[Spudman]

I agree with Spud. If you know 5 chords, then just play them in different orders & with different rhythms.

...and put those shapes in different positions. ie. move them up 2 frets or down 4 frets. Experiment and let your ears discover new voices.

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

Don't think that you have to have a lot of musical knowledge to be creative. Just knowing 5 different chord shapes and having an imagination can yield startling results. Follow your ears and your mind. Listen to that part of you that still dreams.

Experiment and invent.

Sure sounds simple enough...

Being in the Beginner stage.. In the last few years (ok im slow).. I found the hardest thing to do is slow down and stay slowed down. Timing.. Im as terrible at it as you can be.. with little improvement ever being seen. I try different books... drum beats etc.. still.. once awy from them.. I speed up and slow down at UNWILL..sigh.. thats my hardest thing.. trying to keep up or down with a backing/beat.. Im finally learning...playing along to songs on youtube helps.. but i got a loooong way to go.. none of this is over nite.. you guys that started young and its all easy to you..hats off... you put your time in I know!

Fingering... it's tough, I finally realized it all in repeat repeat repeat over and over and over again.. and one day.. the move from say Fmaj to Dmin seems to come with out a problem.. then your on to the next set of chords you usually don't play.. I don't know if watching others move their fingers helps me.. other then seeing how they fluidly move from one chord to another, or use a barred voicing someplace I didn't even know the chord existed. We all have different hands.. my left wrist is broke/fused for good so it just does not move the same as say the man with a quick twisting wrist..

I have noticed just about all open string chords now fall into place after years of over and over repeat and repeat..if I don't have to use a pinky to stretch one out.. that was a goal and I am happy I got that far.. all I ever wanted to do was play a 12 bar E-A-D anyways... Im way past that and can hear some songs come into play when I play'em...

Im now struggling but advancing in my mind, in the Bar-chords of the same open chords.. There might be 12 notes.. but putting them all together and remembering the places.. can get mindbinding to me.. I sometimes cheat and enjoy using a capo to move easier.. Like the song Robert with Myra did in one video played The Weight.. well I already played that but have trouble with C#m then back.. so I just capo on the second and play Bm fingered etc.. is this a bad thing or just waiting till I am able to play better? Capo good or Capo bad?

As for scales.. I think I did that wrong but it worked.. at least Minor and Major pentatonic... instead of learn postions 1 2 etc.. I just learned the whole neck at once. And seeing one scale in the key of G is just the same as in the Key of A but down a few frets.. it worked out. Still, being able to be creative with it..well, I need to find the imagination to continue on..

R_of_G probably said it best.. "I DON"T CARE" as long as I enjoy what I am doing and to my own ears it sounds fine... in time hopefully.. it sounds right to others..if not..I still don't care..

 

[oldguy]

It's been mentioned before, but I remember discovering that working through a Cmaj scale would "fit" in Am helped me open up more of the fretboard.
Learning relative minors as they relate to the major keys helped alot.
Wanting to play lead so much, it took awhile for me to realize that chord knowledge is power, as there is a little lead scale in every chord. That's how my brain works, anyhow.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Here is my standard experience when learning *anything*

SH!T that's freakin' *IMPOSSIBLE* only genetic freaks could ever do *that*.

Practice, fumble, practice, rethink. Ahhh! so that's it...I can

*kind'a do it*

not so bad, here we goo, wheee this is fu....cked up man! Let's try that again wheeeeeeeee!! Hey! that wasn't too hard. What freakin fun. fun, fun.

So now I can play. Hmmm, let's try sumpin' new...

SH!T that's freakin' *IMPOSSIBLE* only genetic freaks could ever do *that*

Practice, fumble, practice...

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Great new thread tOta! I am reading a few posts after a long, very nice Father's day and am glad to see it. As a fellow relative beginner, I will enjoy this!

P.S. I can relate to your learning "steps"!

 

[jasongins]

Great thread. I think the best piece of advice I have been given so far as a beginner (started 6 months ago or so), is when learning to play something new, play it as slowly as I absolutely have to at first. Even if that is rediculously slow. But what happens is my fingers start to learn the locations, and then they get a little faster, and eventually I can play it sort of.

The next best piece of advice I got was to sit with the guitar on my left leg rather than my right. This seems to center the weight of the guitar into its body and then plant it solidly on my leg, rather than having my left hand support any of the weight. Yes it makes the left hand reach a little further, but this has allowed my left hand to move up and down the neck much more freely, it has allowed my fingers to arch much more, my barring is much better, my back doesn't hurt, and it has made the transition to playing standing up much easier since the guitar is in just about the same position relative to my body.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Great thread. I think the best piece of advice I have been given so far as a beginner (started 6 months ago or so), is when learning to play something new, play it as slowly as I absolutely have to at first. Even if that is rediculously slow. But what happens is my fingers start to learn the locations, and then they get a little faster, and eventually I can play it sort of.

That's what I'm talking about. Get into the groove of a three-toed sloth shredding his little heart out.

I stand when I play that way the guitar holds itself. But then again I'm in my 40s & my body rebels at the idea of hunching over a guitar for any length of time.

 

[ted s]

I think this is a great thread Tot, looking forward to read more.
Maybe a sticky ?

 

[WackyT]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I like to stand also while practicing. It feels more natural to me. And I'm currently playing like a 3-toed sloth, but I'm able to feel my fretting hand moving smoother over the board each day.

 

[R_of_G]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I like to stand also while practicing. It feels more natural to me. And I'm currently playing like a 3-toed sloth, but I'm able to feel my fretting hand moving smoother over the board each day.

playing standing def helps develop good hand posture. i like to play seated, mostly for comfort. as far as playing slowly at first, it's better to play at dinosaur speed and play the notes correctly. once it becomes muscle memory, the speed will improve with practice.

 

[Lev]

some useful tips that I've found...

when learning songs break everything down into bite size chunks. Especially when working out solos - 90% of classic rock solos are played one note at a time, take 2 seconds of audio and identify the notes and practice just that 2 second lick before moving on...

don't get too hung up on gear/FX & tubes. A decent sounding guitar with a nice low action and a basic clean/dirty amp will get you going with most rock guitar sounds.

looper pedals are your friend when it comes to learning what scales work within chord progressions - and when it comes to playing in time.

The Internet is a wonderful thing - youtube, theFret, dolphinstreet will all help you become a better guitarist (but if you are reading this you already know that!!)

Enthusiasm & practice makes great guitarists!!

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

On the question of what should you practice.

What gives you the most pleasure is the short answer.

The longer answer includes focusing on what is giving you the most difficulty.
Look at this as the quickest way to pleasure. The biggest changes occur by removing the biggest obstacle.

The even longer answer is to stay with a thing long enough to become fluid with it.

The longest answer is to change things up and try something completely new.

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

best way to learn fingering?

Seeing I just learn what I read.. online and in different books instead of from other players sitting next to me, I don't know if I learned fingering chords right or wrong, I guess you need to learn a few different ways before things fall together..
Learning open chords at first made my pinky sit off to the side alot.. like on Emajor Aminor I used 2-3-4 fingers.. Now that I know alot of open chords.. I learned barr chords..
well.. now I have to re-adjust everything to make my mind know that my 2 -index finger is needed to barr.. If I would have just learned from the start to finger these chords with my pinky, I think life would have been easier...
but then..sometimes you use that pinky for add-on chords right? sus-add9 etc? which is best to learn first?
I am finally settling into barr chords pretty well.. but the biggest problem I had was convincing my pinky to take the 4th finger place and allowing my index to barr.. (simple mind.. not so simple adjustment)

Once I got the fingering to 3-4-5 and bar with the index it finally fell in place... up and down the neck.. getting easier and easier to go through majors and minors.. knowing the major-minor and 7th of each chord with the 3-4-5 fingering allows for swift barr movement to the next one up or down the neck. which is best way? whats a good memory exercise?

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Learning open chords at first made my pinky sit off to the side alot.. like on Emajor Aminor I used 2-3-4 fingers..

I thought 2-3-4 = middle-ring-pinky.

In any case, at some point I realized that open chords were more smoothly played if fingered with the index (I would say 1) staying on the first fret.

So for example, G is the middle finger on the 6th string, the ring on the 5th, and pinky on the 1st. That way, the change between C or F and G doesn't involve a lot of movement.

D is middle of the 3rd string, ring on the first string, and pinky on the 2nd string. A fun move is to flip between D and D7 by keeping the middle and ring fingers in place and alternating between pinky on the 2nd string at the 3rd fret and index on the 2nd string at the first fret.

Even so , I had to consciously work to get my pinky to stay relaxed and close to the strings when not in use.

I am finally settling into barr chords pretty well.. but the biggest problem I had was convincing my pinky to take the 4th finger place and allowing my index to barr.. (simple mind.. not so simple adjustment)

That's because the brain only devotes computational resources to tasks it deems important. The reason many people give up playing is that it seems impossible at first, but given enough concentration and practice you can convince your brain that your life depends on intricate left-hand pinky-maneuvers & it will adjust things so that it communicates more subtly with your pinky.

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

I thought 2-3-4 = middle-ring-pinky.

That's because the brain only devotes computational resources to tasks it deems important. The reason many people give up playing is that it seems impossible at first, but given enough concentration and practice you can convince your brain that your life depends on intricate left-hand pinky-maneuvers & it will adjust things so that it communicates more subtly with your pinky.

Yup..see, told ya beginner!! heh.. my mind needs to learn... I ment 123 234 but mind made fingers print other 234 345...tisk tisk... I must have been counting on my hand starting with thumb..

After putting this here..I guess I realize..you just have to learn more then one way to finger the same chords....

good point..convince brain... reason for people to give up... now to convince brain multi ways are needed.. I still think for me anyways.. learning Amin and Emaj with 234 instead of 123 would have been a help later on.. thats been "my" hardest thing.. getting into bar chords from open...till I switched the fingering.. something about starting at top with Amin or Emaj makes it easier later to get to the barr chords..dunno if it makes sense..and shouldn't.. but worked. Ofcourse...staying in open chords the 123 is the best for sure..