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Truth be told, I can't decide if I'm more disappointed in my Jets or my Bucs. Both teams had their destinies in their own hands. The Bucs were 9-3 and the Jets were 8-3 and neither made the playoffs. I have some issues with the play of a handful of players on both teams but ultimately, I think Coach Gruden and Coach Mangini should be unemployed tomorrow. Both teams were poorly coached. Both coaches refused to adjust their game plans from week to week. Both coaches have no sense of urgency. Both coaches cannot learn how to use their timeouts or their replay challenges. From what I saw, the players were executing the plays that were called, they were just the wrong plays.
 
just strum said:
It could be worse - think Cleveland Browns.

Around here we use to say - "well, maybe next year". However, these days we say "GO CAVS"
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or the detroit lions:thwap:
 
R_of_G said:
Truth be told, I can't decide if I'm more disappointed in my Jets or my Bucs. Both teams had their destinies in their own hands. The Bucs were 9-3 and the Jets were 8-3 and neither made the playoffs. I have some issues with the play of a handful of players on both teams but ultimately, I think Coach Gruden and Coach Mangini should be unemployed tomorrow. Both teams were poorly coached. Both coaches refused to adjust their game plans from week to week. Both coaches have no sense of urgency. Both coaches cannot learn how to use their timeouts or their replay challenges. From what I saw, the players were executing the plays that were called, they were just the wrong plays.
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Crennel should be available tomorrow.

My gosh, I just saw the Eagles made the playoffs.
 
i will eat crow and like it.

my parents gave me a childhood and a work ethic, and then i was on my own.

you don't deserve anything you don't earn, and the 'boys deserved nothing today.

ka rolls like a wheel. or something.
 
Childbride said:
i will eat crow and like it.

my parents gave me a childhood and a work ethic, and then i was on my own.

you don't deserve anything you don't earn, and the 'boys deserved nothing today.

ka rolls like a wheel. or something.
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Insulting the Cowboys and referencing the Dark Tower. Best post ever. CB wins the thread.:bravo:

I know what you mean though. The Jets and Bucs got exactly what they deserved for the efforts they put in. Much as I hate the Dolphins, they earned their spot in the playoffs. I still hope they get crushed, but they deserve to be there, and kudos for Chad Pennington. He's always been a class act. I can't say I was sorry to see him go, but he's had a hell of a season in Miami and deserves to win "comeback player of the year".
 
Well, reports are that Marinelli and Mangini are both canned. No surprise with the former, some with the latter.

If there had been a 16 game season back in the 70s, Tampa Bay would've lost them all. They proceeded to lose their first 12 games the next year. Having said that, they were an expansion franchise where the rules were set to basically guarantee failure. The Lions had to suck the old fashioned way. FWIW, they've lost their last 17 and 23 out of the last 24.

*Update* AARRRGGHH! The Detroit Free Press is reporting that two leftovers from the Millen regime will take over as president and GM. I'm not surprised. Well, enjoy kicking our @$$e$ for the next decade.
 
You're right about the Bucs/Lions comparison Marnold. The Bucs are still historically more futile, but they were still building a real franchise. The Lions are one of the oldest franchises in the game. It's got to sting Lions' fans more than 1976 stung Bucs fans.

I'm surprised at the Mangini firing too, although pleasantly surprised. 23-25 over three years is not acceptable. Taking a team to 8-3 only to finish 9-7 is not acceptable. Losing to Oakland, San Francisco and Seattle is not acceptable. Losing on the final day of the season at home to the Dolphins is not acceptable.

Mangini simply refused to coach properly. When they won, it was in spite of his game plan, which never changed once in the three years he was with the team. All season long the fans were left wondering where the pass rush was. Yesterday, after 15 games, they finally decided to blitz and what happened? They got to Pennington and he coughed up the ball. For some reason, they did not blitz again the rest of the game. A coach that cannot adjust his strategy, especially when something proves effective, is a coach that should be unemployed.

I will spare you the rant about not being able to stop the "wildcat" offense. Suffice it to say that that offense is a complete gimmick and is stopped saturday after saturday by college teams. There is no excuse for the Jets not to have a plan for it after Miami ran it since week 3.

On the offensive side of the ball, Mangini is clueless. He continues to try to throw on 3rd and 1. If you know the QB is iffy and prone to throw INT's, and you also have the AFC's leading rusher in Thomas Jones, why do you always throw on 3rd and 1? Why on 3rd and 8 does Mangini call 7 yard passing plays time after time? Why does he have no sense of urgency in clock management. At the end of the second half yesterday came the perfect example. With 14 seconds to go Favre refused to call time out, instead he chose to spike the ball with 8 seconds to go, costing the Jets and entire down. Coaches can call time-outs from the sideline and there was no excuse for Mangini not to do so. It's his team, he's in charge.

I blame him, at least in part, for the drafting of Vernon Gholston. It should have been obvious that Gholston's game would not translate to the NFL. It sure as hell was obvious to every Jets fan I know. We've been calling VG "The Invisible Man" all season bc when he's on the field he does absolutely nothing. He is utterly useless. What burns me about it is that there were so many legitimate defensive talents taken with picks right after we wasted the #6 pick on Gholston. I'd like to see him cut. He's a waste of time.

There are so many more reasons I am glad to see Mangini gone. Frankly, I wanted him fired after last season. He proved to me then that he couldn't do the job. I'm just glad Woody Johnson decided that it was time to let him go.

Now I wonder who's coming next. Rumors abound, but I'd like to see a legit search instead of just hiring someone who used to coach somewhere else. I'd much rather see a young defensive coordinator get a shot at building a real defense and a real team than having Marty Schottenheimer come in and prove yet again that he can go 14-2 and not win a playoff game. The guy is the greatest regular season coach ever. He cannot win in the playoffs.
 
lets-go-cavs-640x480.gif
 
R_of_G said:
At least some Lions' fans are taking advantage of the situation and handling it with good humor...

http://since57.com/
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Yeah, I've seen that site before and saw them on ESPN2. I want one of their original t-shirts that simply said "Rebuilding Since 1957."
 
Crennel - out

Mangini - out (and maybe back in - see below)

Marinelli -out



Lerner (Browns owner) intends to speak with another front office executive, but wouldn’t divulge his name for competitive purposes.

As for his coaching search, Lerner said Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, a 32-year-old native of Canton, Ohio, was on his list and that he will likely contact Eric Mangini, who was fired Monday by the New York Jets. Mangini began his pro career as an intern with Cleveland in the 1990s.
 
Good luck with Eric Mangini. In his stint with the Jets, he'd have had to have won 1 more game to achieve mediocrity (23 wins, 25 losses). If I were a Browns fan, I'd be more interested in Spagnuolo or McDaniel than Mangini.

Speaking of Browns coaching, it would appear the next coach will not be Bill Cowher who has told the team he is not interested.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/12/cowher-tells-br.html

He has agreed to speak with the Jets though. Intriguing for sure. Much more so than Marty Schottenheimer. I guess we wait and see what happens. Whoever the next Jets coach is, I hope they bring a little more enthusiasm to the job than Mangini who has the same range of emotion as Keanu Reeves.
 
R_of_G said:
Good luck with Eric Mangini. In his stint with the Jets, he'd have had to have won 1 more game to achieve mediocrity (23 wins, 25 losses). If I were a Browns fan, I'd be more interested in Spagnuolo or McDaniel than Mangini.

Speaking of Browns coaching, it would appear the next coach will not be Bill Cowher who has told the team he is not interested.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/12/cowher-tells-br.html

He has agreed to speak with the Jets though. Intriguing for sure. Much more so than Marty Schottenheimer. I guess we wait and see what happens. Whoever the next Jets coach is, I hope they bring a little more enthusiasm to the job than Mangini who has the same range of emotion as Keanu Reeves.
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The Bill Cower thing was interesting. Lerner met with him and he said he is too focused on his kids to come back right now and then ESPN reports he's meeting with the Jets.

The Josh McDaniels thing is interesting, but they keep saying that they want an experienced head coach. The Big Tuna is being mentioned, I'm not sure the reason he would leave Miami (haven't really followed that)
 
just strum said:
The Bill Cower thing was interesting. Lerner met with him and he said he is too focused on his kids to come back right now and then ESPN reports he's meeting with the Jets.

The Josh McDaniels thing is interesting, but they keep saying that they want an experienced head coach. The Big Tuna is being mentioned, I'm not sure the reason he would leave Miami (haven't really followed that)
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If it's a choice between coordinators, I'd take Spagnuolo over McDaniels. Firstly, because I believe it's been proven that defense wins championships and Spagnuolo knows defense better than just about anyone. The only real upside I see in McDaniels is the possibility that wherever he goes he make take Matt Cassels with him as a free agent. However, given the uncertainty surrounding the timing of Tom Brady's recovery, it is extremely likely the Patriots will slap the "franchise player" tag on Cassels and then he won't be going anywhere regardless of McDaniels.

As for Parcells, here's some background on why he would and could leave Miami.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBdpI2lxq6RW5M0Xwo3C6QBPCQSwD95CI5F00

In short, if the Dolphins are sold by Wayne Huizenga, Parcells' contract allows him to leave after one season and still receive the $12 million remaining on his four-year contract. Huizenga recently agreed to sell the team. I think Parcells would be stupid not to opt out. How can you turn down what amounts to a free $12 million?
 
R_of_G said:
Firstly, because I believe it's been proven that defense wins championships ...


...and still receive the $12 million remaining on his four-year contract. Huizenga recently agreed to sell the team. I think Parcells would be stupid not to opt out. How can you turn down what amounts to a free $12 million?
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I agree with the defense theory, but that didn't work out with Crennel (side note: Crennel has offered to stay on as an assistant).


As for Parcells: I should have thought of the $12 million when I signed up with the company I start with next week - certainly would have resolved the GAS fund issue.
 
Agreed on Crennel. He just wasn't the guy. I'm not saying defensive coordinators are always the right choice (see also Herman Edwards) but in a purely philosophical sense, I'd always choose to build a defense before building an offense. The Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl with an offense that was mediocre at best (Trent Dilfer at QB).

As for Cowher and the Jets, it is being reported this morning that it's a no-go. Cowher said he'd only be interested in returning in 2009 if he could bring his choice of player personnel person with him. The Jets said no, that Mike Tannenbaum would remain as GM. Despite my ambivalence about whether or not I wanted Cowher with the Jets, I think this is a mistake on the Jets part. Tannenbaum is almost as much to blame as Mangini. Sure, he signed some key free agents in the off season, but it doesn't take a genius to know Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace and Kris Jenkins would be great. They were already great.

However, Tannenbaum cannot seem to figure out the draft. He is the person most responsible for Vernon Gholston, who may be the biggest bust for the Jets ever. He is responsible for D'Brickashaw Ferguson who is not impressive at all. On the plus side, he did draft Darelle Revis, but anyone could see that kid was one of the best CB prospects in years. What pains me is that instead of Gholston, they could have drafted Mike Jenkins (from my USF Bulls) who could have worked the opposite corner from Revis and given Gang Green two superb cover corners for years to come. Jenkins was one of the few bright spots for the Cowboys this year.
 
The basketball analogy is a good one.

Defense creates offense. It's more direct in basketball and hockey where the players play both offense and defense, sometimes simultaneously, but it's still true in football. A good defense gives their offense more time with the ball. The more chances an offense has, the more likely they will score points.

On the other hand, a good offense can only go so far. If your team scores a lot of points but cannot stop the other team from scoring, you will lose as much as you will win. A team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore doesn't have to score a lot of points because they don't give up a lot of points. If Pittsburgh puts up 17 points against you, you might be in big trouble because it's hard to score three times against them.

I would always rather my team play strong defense.
 
just strum said:
And don't forget field position.
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I did forget that. Excellent point.

just strum said:
Oh and baseball, nothing like a great pitcher on the mound and maybe a quick shortstop. Personally I would take a pitcher's duel over a home run derby any day.
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I agree completely Strum. It's why I prefer the National League to the American League.

In all sports I prefer defensive struggles to high-scoring games. The most exciting hockey games I've ever seen were 1-0, not 5-4.
 
Yeah, but what do you do when you only have an awesome WR, K, and P? The answer? Go 0-16.
 
marnold said:
Yeah, but what do you do when you only have an awesome WR, K, and P? The answer? Go 0-16.
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Trade Calvin Johnson to the Jets? Sorry, wishful thinking.

By the way, I think you also have an awesome RB in the making with Kevin Smith. I got to see much of his career as UCF is but 70 miles from here and they get plenty of tv coverage in this area. That kid is going to be spectacular.

It's probably a good thing the Lions have a good punter since they are in a position to punt so often.
 
R_of_G said:
Trade Calvin Johnson to the Jets? Sorry, wishful thinking.
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There's a part of me that would say trading him wouldn't be the worst idea just because we have so many needs. However, you don't trade the only player who is worth seeing. He is Sanders-esque in that when he touches the ball, you hold your breath a bit, wondering what he will do next. That second touchdown against the Packers was a classic example.

R_of_G said:
By the way, I think you also have an awesome RB in the making with Kevin Smith. I got to see much of his career as UCF is but 70 miles from here and they get plenty of tv coverage in this area. That kid is going to be spectacular.
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I hope you are right. Even though the Lions will always play at least nine games in domes, they need to be able to run the ball effectively, especially in the NFC Norris.

R_of_G said:
It's probably a good thing the Lions have a good punter since they are in a position to punt so often.
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With the Lions' D this year, field position was immaterial.
 
marnold said:
There's a part of me that would say trading him wouldn't be the worst idea just because we have so many needs. However, you don't trade the only player who is worth seeing. He is Sanders-esque in that when he touches the ball, you hold your breath a bit, wondering what he will do next. That second touchdown against the Packers was a classic example.
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I agree. Aside from Steve Smith who is the most exceptional receiver I've seen since Rice, I think Johnson is the best in the league. I don't typically want the Jets to use first round picks for offense, but the year Johnson came out I was praying they'd get him. It was so obvious how good he was going to be, and what's more remarkable about him is how good he's been on a team where he hasn't exactly had a stellar QB to get him the ball. He still makes it happen. He is something special and I'd never trade him if he played for me.

Strum, you are right about Shanahan. He will only be out of a job as long as he wants to be. He could pretty much have his pick of NFL jobs. Two Super Bowl rings speak volumes. I was surprised Denver let him go, but I understand it. He ran his course there and lately has trended towards mediocrity. That said, I think he's an excellent coach and in another setting, he will excel again. I'd be thrilled to see him in green next season.
 
Perhaps Mangini will work out better for Cleveland than he did for the Jets. Or, perhaps he will continue to be mediocre. I sincerely hope the Jets new coach is not one of their current coordinators. I have exactly one candidate. Rex Ryan.
 
Looks like Stafford is willing to be the sacrificial victim for the Lions. If they can't trade out of the pick, they might as well nab him. I read an interview with Ron Wolf recently where he said the first thing he'd do if he were in charge of the Lions is get a QB. That offensive lineman from Alabama wouldn't be a bad choice but the suspension for the Sugar Bowl raises all kinds of red flags. We've had enough under-performing lineman head-cases. That's especially true now because if the Lions are to recover any time soon, they can't blow this pick.
 

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