The Ruts

[just strum]

Sounds like a rock group, but it's questions regarding the problem of getting in a rut.

I learned early on that it doesn't matter what level of playing skills you posses, we all get in a rut. I think for a beginner like myself (and I believe many others on the forum) it may be more frustrating as we haven't developed enough skills or knowledge to work through it.

A few questions for all levels:

1) When do you consider you are in a rut? for me it's when I feel I am not progressing or no matter what I play or practice just seems to sound a little "off" to me.

2) What do you do to get yourself out of a rut? I try to work through it, but sometimes it doesn't seem to work - the "rut" never has the same duration, so that is where the frustration comes in. I try walking away and giving it a rest for a few days, but then the feeling of defeat sets in and I am back at it.

3) We talked about 'the zone" and I'm sure it's come up often, but has anyone thought about what may be the ideal conditions for them to get in "the zone"? Can it be created or does it just happen? I've reached that point a couple of times, but never reflected on the conditions, if any, existed when it happened. Getting in "the zone" certainly takes away frustration and even when something isn't going right, it is viewed differently - instead of a brick wall, it becomes nothing more than a hurdle or challenge

I realize this subject has been beaten to death, but with the recent addition of new members I thought it would be beneficial to hear from all levels, including the new members.

I hope this is a suitable place to post the question.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

My newbie answers appear below in red.



1) When do you consider you are in a rut? for me it's when I feel I am not progressing or no matter what I play or practice just seems to sound a little "off" to me. I agree with that, or when I am making simple mistakes that I normally don't make on something I know. Also, if I am not having fun.

2) What do you do to get yourself out of a rut? Taking advice from here, I think specifically from Spudman, learn something new, and sometimes that means just a melody I can remember in my head. Playing with my looper pedal works too sometimes. But basically, trying something new or different.

3) We talked about 'the zone" and I'm sure it's come up often, but has anyone thought about what may be the ideal conditions for them to get in "the zone"? Can it be created or does it just happen? For me, it helps to get some practice time that is long enough during a time that is not too late at night or when I am not tired out from the day. Sometimes a challenge in a family of five with 3 kids 10 and under. Again, if I load a good backer into my looper and play along, lots of times that puts me there. The folks here have given me plenty of those. For playing specific songs, I think it just takes repetition until the chords or part I am playing is "under my fingers" without thinking about it, then I can let it go and work on some swing and personality. Again, playing along with a recording helps me there. I load new songs sometimes into my looper and slow them down until I can get it and speed it up later. That will ultimately let me get into the zone on a song. Just takes time.

 

[Spudman]

A few questions for all levels:

1) When do you consider you are in a rut?

I never do. It's really just varying degrees of suck. Some days I just suck more than others. Seriously, a good sense of humility really helps because we all tend to put these expectations on ourselves that we can't meet every day. A 'rut' is just not meeting some imaginary expectations. It's not really a rut. You just think it is.

2) What do you do to get yourself out of a rut?

Mainly just keep playing or else change my perspective. Go for a work out, read something, listen to another player that I haven't listened to for a while.


3) We talked about 'the zone" and I'm sure it's come up often, but has anyone thought about what may be the ideal conditions for them to get in "the zone"? Can it be created or does it just happen?

The zone can happen at any time. Consistent meditation can help you to realize this state. Mainly it is the dropping of the 'self' at which point all that exists is just what is. No expectations or criticisms or judgements.

Another sure way is through Neuro Linguistic Programing (NLP). You can reprogram yourself to be in the zone when you associate it with a specific action such as when you hit the power switch on your amph or feel the guitar neck in your hand. Plenty of books on that subject and the best are by Grinder and Bandler.

 

[snarph]

I find playing with others and trying to tune into what ever they are doing to a degree that you kind of loose your self that usually dose it for me

 

[Plank_Spanker]

1) When do you consider you are in a rut?

When I find myself banging away at the same old stuff, getting nowhere with it, and losing inspiration to play.

2) What do you do to get yourself out of a rut?

I walk away from the guitar for a while. It doesn't take too long for the fire to build back up. I go back and play guilty indulgence, fun stuff. I eventually work my way back to the old wall and sometimes I just leap right over it.

3) We talked about 'the zone" and I'm sure it's come up often, but has anyone thought about what may be the ideal conditions for them to get in "the zone"? Can it be created or does it just happen?

Ah, The Zone! What a great place to be! I usually find The Zone when I'm really fired up to play - usually after a short break. I set my way up by eliminating any distractions. I don't seek The Zone. I let it find me. I just relax and let my playing flow. When the door opens, you'll know it - you won't really think about your playing............it will just flow out of you

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

A few questions for all levels:

Spuds seems to have these questions down.. so I basicly copy pasted.. and added my newbie side to it..

1) When do you consider you are in a rut?

I never do. It's really just varying degrees of suck. Some days I just suck more than others. Seriously, a good sense of humility really helps because we all tend to put these expectations on ourselves that we can't meet every day.

Although I believe maybe I should know more than I already do after 2-3 years playing.. I am content in what I know.. and still have the fever to learn more everyday.

2) What do you do to get yourself out of a rut?

Mainly just keep playing... I might change the type of playing.. from Rock to country to blues..but just keep playing and smiling most of the time.


3) We talked about 'the zone" and I'm sure it's come up often, but has anyone thought about what may be the ideal conditions for them to get in "the zone"? Can it be created or does it just happen?

The zone can happen at any time....

my problem with "the zone"... I feel like I am really playing something..and it sounds great "to me".. at that moment.. then I listen to what I recorded the next day..delete it cause it was not great and go on smiling and learning something else.. someday..maybe it all will fall together..

man at 50+...its all good.. just like a kid at christmas.. I really just enjoy messing with guitars and equipment.. and I hope it don't end till I do...

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I'm too much of a beginner to get in a rut.

There is always something new to learn, it always takes time to learn it. I know about how long it takes me to move from clam digging to relatively smooth playing. Each little bit makes me happy.

The Zone comes at the end of each new learning period, when the thinking & repitition transforms into calm & playful fun.

Lots of clam digging, little bit of Zone, then more clam digging, which leads to a more expansive Zone which of course brings up a extended period of clam digging...

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I'm too much of a beginner to get in a rut.

There is always something new to learn, it always takes time to learn it. I know about how long it takes me to move from clam digging to relatively smooth playing. Each little bit makes me happy.

The Zone comes at the end of each new learning period, when the thinking & repitition transforms into calm & playful fun.

Lots of clam digging, little bit of Zone, then more clam digging, which leads to a more expansive Zone which of course brings up a extended period of clam digging...

Yeah, I can really relate to that! The hard part for me is putting enough time together to concentrate long enough to work through the clams.

 

[just strum]

Yeah, I can really relate to that! The hard part for me is putting enough time together to concentrate long enough to work through the clams.

That's an issue with me too. I will be at work and start thinking about going home and playing guitar, but when I get home I'm either mentally drained or some unplanned task is waiting for me.

Weekends have gotten a little better and there are times that at least one day on the weekend I can put in a 3 to 4 hour session. I had the time yesterday, pulled out the guitars and amp, but still seemed to labor and couldn't get a nice flow going. I ended up going over chords and chord progressions so I would at least take advantage of the available time.

I would like to practice 45 - 60 minutes every weekday and then have a nice long session on the weekend. The other problem I have is coordinating a convenient time with friends that play - we can never get on the same schedule.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

That's an issue with me too. I will be at work and start thinking about going home and playing guitar, but when I get home I'm either mentally drained or some unplanned task is waiting for me.

Weekends have gotten a little better and there are times that at least one day on the weekend I can put in a 3 to 4 hour session. I had the time yesterday, pulled out the guitars and amp, but still seemed to labor and couldn't get a nice flow going. I ended up going over chords and chord progressions so I would at least take advantage of the available time.

I would like to practice 45 - 60 minutes every weekday and then have a nice long session on the weekend. The other problem I have is coordinating a convenient time with friends that play - we can never get on the same schedule.

For it to work at all for me lately, I need to turn off my head and just start plugging stuff in and playing something, no matter what it is. Then I can maybe work on some planned stuff. I may try making a note or two on where I left off in a notebook on my amph so I can pick it back up without thinking about it.

I also am implementing some tot Ou tard inspired Jedi/zen philoshopy, colored with Nike marketing:

play or play not..there is no try --tOta

and Just Play It!

some of the books mentioned above might be worth a look for me.

 

[ted s]

Spuds and Justa, varying degrees of suckage ?!
I hope that one day I can suck as bad as you guys.

:crazyguy:

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Spuds and Justa, varying degrees of suckage ?!
I hope that one day I can suck as bad as you guys.

:crazyguy:

Yeah, I am in line there behind you buddy. Give me some more cowbell! ancake

 

[ted s]

Steve, if you're in line behind me, is the smiley Steve giving smiley Ted a wedgie ?

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Steve, if you're in line behind me, is the smiley Steve giving smiley Ted a wedgie ?

Ya, that's it. Nothing more than that coming from me, and I am just aboot juvenile enough to do that very thing. :beer: :rotflmao:

 

[TS808]

I've gone through those phases of feeling like I'm stuck in a rut. It wasn't until I started taking lessons again that I realized how much I was limiting myself, and I've only taken 3 lessons so far. I'm experimenting with different modes, chords, tempos, and even music.

I think that "rut" for me was just getting comfortable with a specific style (blues) and not trying enough different music. It got to the point where alot of the stuff I was playing was sounding the same.

 

[just strum]

I've gone through those phases of feeling like I'm stuck in a rut. It wasn't until I started taking lessons again that I realized how much I was limiting myself, and I've only taken 3 lessons so far. I'm experimenting with different modes, chords, tempos, and even music.

I think I have to start taking lessons. We have a place close to my house that charges $95 a month for weekly half hour lessons. The great feature of their lessons is they always have at least one instructor that remains with open time. If you get stuck on something or just need some assistance you can go in for a half hour and work with the instructor at no extra charge. If you wanted, you could actually show up every day (24 hour notice required) and still pay $95.

I'm trying to decide if I want to take acoustic or electric lessons. I am playing my electrics more and more - acoustic probably only takes up 20% of my time, if that.

Here's the place:

http://www.gitterpicker.com/

Go to lessons and then click on "About Our Program"

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I think I have to start taking lessons. We have a place close to my house that charges $95 a month for weekly half hour lessons. The great feature of their lessons is they always have at least one instructor that remains with open time. If you get stuck on something or just need some assistance you can go in for a half hour and work with the instructor at no extra charge. If you wanted, you could actually show up every day (24 hour notice required) and still pay $95.

I'm trying to decide if I want to take acoustic or electric lessons. I am playing my electrics more and more - acoustic probably only takes up 20% of my time, if that.

Here's the place:

http://www.gitterpicker.com/


Go to lessons and then click on "About Our Program"

Hey that looks cool. It would be interesting to go to different guys or the instructor on call for the day, as long as they were all good enough. I did not see that you had to pick specifically acoustic or electric. Just that the instructors are listed as acoustic or electric. I would ask which ones could do both and pick one to be my "homeroom" instructor. My instructor works with me on both, though because we have been playing in the student band, whose covers require my electric, I have been focusing on that.

 

[kiteman]

Best way to get out of a rut, do something new or just walk away.

The zone, I remember how I worked to get "there". Now it's nothing, just has to be in the mood for it. Weird thing is when I'm in the zone I don't know what I'm doing because my fingers got a mind of their own. I feel like I'm just listening to music from somewhere else. When it ends I "wake" up.

 

[YerDugliness]

Aaaah, the rut and the zone, supposedly juxtapositions of skill, but are they?

I've been in rut after rut, but as I look back on those times I realize that they didn't always have much to do with the guitar, most often it was other things that were happening in my life and just seemed to have an overall effect. What usually helped me was getting out of the house and doing something, ANYTHING, that was a new endeavor. Learn something new. It didn't have to be guitar related for me, sometimes it was stained glass, sometimes it was woodworking, sometimes it was winemaking.....you get the idea. Once I felt that rush that goes with a new skill, it seemed like other areas in my life got better, too. Blame it on my lifetime endeavor if you want--a 32 year career in education makes me a lifetime learner, I guess.

As for "DaZone", well, I've been there, and "....ain't it great???" A few who know me realize most of my practice time is spent in the dark, with my eyes closed, and when you stop relying on watching what your left hand is doing and start letting the flow become ingrained, a motor pattern rather than an endeavor, it frees the mind for spiritual travel, which in my mind is where "DaZone" is located. I put the hands on automatic and start visualizing (my favorite is to play "Vincent", by Don McLean, and visualize his artwork as I am playing--there is a different piece for each phrase in the lyrics!). Before long, I awaken, not knowing how long I've been mind tripping, but realizing that I need to wipe the drool off my shirt and the guitar. When you get to that place, where you lose control of your hands and your mind takes over, you've been to "DaZone".

For me, the rut is just part of the road to "DaZone" (or is it that "DaZone" is just the way out of the rut--it all runs together, to me). Once I get to "DaZone", whatever rut I'm in just seems to fill in, and once the ruts fill in I find the journey to "DaZone" to be like turning the reins loose and letting the horse make his way back to the barn--it's automatic.

Thus endeth this treatise on soul travel...................

Dugly

 

[Ro3b]

When I'm in a rut, I listen to the Ruts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K44YwDuKEQ

 

[just strum]

man at 50+...its all good.. just like a kid at christmas.. I really just enjoy messing with guitars and equipment.. and I hope it don't end till I do...

I'm with you, but before I leave this place I want someone to say "hey, you're a good guitarist" - hell, I would settle with "hey, you're not half bad"

But I know what you are saying and there is a lot of satisfaction messing around with guitars and equipment.

 

[just strum]

Since the "Rut" subject came up again and I think some of us, if not all of us, benefit from the discussion I thought I would address another issue relating to the subject.

DIRECTION: It probably has been touched on in this or other threads, but there's always good advice to be shared. One of the causes I find when I am in a rut, is I am lacking direction or a map of learning. One thing that is common in any learning process are the building blocks that allow you to develop as it prepares you for the next challenge. Right now I am just picking up on various little lessons (the free DVD from Truefire that Marnold posted as an example). It really serves as a bridge to allow me to continue to advance, but it really has no defined "next step". That said, does anyone have recommendations for learning techniques or lessons, besides sitting with an instructor?

 

[Rocket]

...does anyone have recommendations for learning techniques or lessons, besides sitting with an instructor?

Sure... sit down and play with anyone. Always works!

 

[just strum]

Some of your best advise - when can you be here?

 

[Rocket]

Some of your best advise - when can you be here?

Dude... tie a chicken leg, (or a beer,) around your neck and get a friend or two!

Seriously... I'm all travelled out for a while. We would like to get up to Cedar Point next year though.

 

[just strum]

Dude... tie a chicken leg, (or a beer,) around your neck and get a friend or two!

Seriously... I'm all travelled out for a while. We would like to get up to Cedar Point next year though.

It's always a scheduling issue - the planned session this weekend was interrupted by - unplanned trip to Indiana and the other guys wife deciding on giving birth to their second child - Damn, where the hell are peoples priorities these days?

As for Cedar Point, give me advanced notice and we'll set up a room at the house. It won't be four star, but it will be home cooking, room to stretch, guitars to play and maybe a visit to the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame.

 

[Lev]

Right now I am just picking up on various little lessons (the free DVD from Truefire that Marnold posted as an example). It really serves as a bridge to allow me to continue to advance, but it really has no defined "next step". That said, does anyone have recommendations for learning techniques or lessons, besides sitting with an instructor?

I guess you need to set out what the next step is for you. Is there a particular technique that you really want to master (soloing, chords, hybrid pickin, improvising etc.)? If so is there a particular style that you'd like to concentrate on? Within that style is there a particular player that you'd like to emulate?

For example right now I'm trying to learn some country guitar. I can't expect to learn everything so I'm concentrating on the Danny Gatton lessons on www.guitarplayertv.com and Roberts Hybrid picking lesson on dolphinstreet. I also went out and bought a Brad Paisley CD to train my ear to the chord changes and phrasing. Then as I learn I'm referencing a couple of theory books that I have and this thread http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=4428 to figure out what modes and scales I'm using.

Last year I did someting similar with John Mayers guitar style. Over time you add more strings to your bow and you find when you're improvising or writing music you've streached your boundaries that little bit further. So what works for me is
1. define a short term goal for your playing
2. set a timeline to achieve that goal
3. use youtube, theFret, dolphinstreet, guitarplayertv, books, magazines to get you started
4. once you've mastered a technique/style have a look at the theory behind it so that you can re-use in your playing.
5. have fun!! if it's a chore then you probably need to redefine what your original goal was - take small steps that can be accomplished within a reasonable time frame and build from there.

Hope this helps

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I guess you need to set out what the next step is for you. Is there a particular technique that you really want to master (soloing, chords, hybrid pickin, improvising etc.)? If so is there a particular style that you'd like to concentrate on? Within that style is there a particular player that you'd like to emulate? . . . . .

. . . Last year I did someting similar with John Mayers guitar style. Over time you add more strings to your bow and you find when you're improvising or writing music you've streached your boundaries that little bit further. So what works for me is
1. define a short term goal for your playing
2. set a timeline to achieve that goal
3. use youtube, theFret, dolphinstreet, guitarplayertv, books, magazines to get you started
4. once you've mastered a technique/style have a look at the theory behind it so that you can re-use in your playing.
5. have fun!! if it's a chore then you probably need to redefine what your original goal was - take small steps that can be accomplished within a reasonable time frame and build from there.

Hope this helps

Hey Lev, that is a good idea with some decent structure and focus, which I need. Combine that with Jimi75s post on Pareto's Rule (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=2852) applied to guitar practice and that is my aim this year. How did you approach John's style? As you know from my Friday post, that is a goal for me this year.

 

[just strum]

Hey Lev, that is a good idea with some decent structure and focus, which I need. Combine that with Jimi75s post on Perato's Rule (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=2852) applied to guitar practice and that is my aim this year. How did you approach John's style? As you know from my Friday post, that is a goal for me this year.

Well today I was at work and leaned over a partition and threw out my back. Can't lift a guitar, so at least for a day or two (I hope no longer) I will have plenty of time to read the recommended material.

 

[Rocket]

Well today I was at work and leaned over a partition and threw out my back. Can't lift a guitar, so at least for a day or two.

Dude... you're a medical disaster! You need to apply for SSDI and retire.
(pssst... Ernie's house across the street is still up for sale.)