Unfloating my Floyd

[marnold]

OK, let me start out by saying that I have a real love-hate relationship with my Floyd. When it works, it is beyond awesome. When it doesn't it redefines the term "PITA." Currently I've got it floating with three springs in a V formation and tuned to Eb. I'm considering putting the fourth spring back on to make it two per side and reinstalling the Speedloader's pseudo-tremsetter to block it. If I would do that I'd probably return it to standard tuning. Here's my list of pros and cons:

Floating pros: Well, it's a Floyd, isn't it! That subtle full vibrato is very nice. Being able to pull up is a cool effect. It also allows for all manner of other Floyd tricks.
Floating cons: The big one (which prompts this discussion) is that as soon as my strings get the slightest bit old, tuning stability goes to crap. Bending a string pulls the others out of tune. If I break a string (mind you, I never have) the whole guitar is out of whack.

Blocked pros: Tuning stability, the rest of the guitar stays in tune if one string is bent or is broken, ease of string changes with the trem-stopper thingy, some say sustain and "tone" are improved, you can still dive-bomb like a madman.
Blocked cons: Kinda takes some of the fun out of having a Floyd.

My other concern is that I have moved the springs on my claw back and forth so much, I don't want to have the basswood give way and disembowel me. I'd have to loosen the claw at least somewhat. The addition of a spring, the change in tuning, and the trem-stopper would ameliorate that somewhat.

These Floyd/Dean Markeley strings don't seem to last as long as Boomers do on my other guitar. They still sound fine but any age shows itself in tuning stability issues. Before you know it, the Floyd itself is no longer flush and I lose patience.

The tuning change is partially because going back to four springs without going to heavier strings would be difficult. These Speedloader strings aren't cheap (unless you get them the way I did) and I've got five extra sets of 10s. I also don't find myself playing Eb stuff that much. Even when I do, it would just be with backing tracks which Audacity can easily make a step sharp.

 

[Kazz]

Rev Rawk said "PITA"

 

[Algonquin]

Maybe not what you want to hear, but I think a Floyd should flloat...

 

[Spudman]

If you are having tuning issues then something is still isn't right with the way the bridge/locking nut is set up.
As you can guess I have plenty of locking tremolos and nothing moves after it is stretched and locked. I have one exception and that is only because I haven't taken time yet to remedy it. I've had all the other guitars longer so they've been fine tuned. Temperatures will have an effect so keep the axe consistently warm.
If this is an issue with a speed loader then the spring tension is still off a bit or you need lube on the pivots.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I don't know anything about Floyds so I voted for Warren to put on some pants. ancake:

Not all the time, just for once.

 

[Katastrophe]

I voted to block the Floyd. Dive bombing's most of the fun with Floyds anyway, and I think you'll like the increased tuning stability.

I'm still on the fence about getting tremel-nos for my two Floyds. I spend more time working on them than playing.

 

[marnold]

If you are having tuning issues then something is still isn't right with the way the bridge/locking nut is set up.
As you can guess I have plenty of locking tremolos and nothing moves after it is stretched and locked. I have one exception and that is only because I haven't taken time yet to remedy it. I've had all the other guitars longer so they've been fine tuned. Temperatures will have an effect so keep the axe consistently warm.
If this is an issue with a speed loader then the spring tension is still off a bit or you need lube on the pivots.

It is the Speedloader, so obviously no locking nut issues.

The issue is with the strings. I changed mine on July 11. Now they still sound fine, but they've corroded enough where tuning stability is an issue. I think basically they lose a little flexibility. On my hard tail it's not noticeable. When you've got the delicate floating Floyd balance, it is very noticeable. Already I'm to the point where multiple strings are pulling this stunt. So as I was tuning with the fine-tuners it kept getting sharper to the point that the bridge was no longer flat. So basically now until I change strings I'll be doing this elaborate tuning dance.

I know 2.5 months might seem like a long time to keep on strings, but at $10/pop I'd like to get more life out of them. Granted, I've got five sets that I got for $5-6 each but still. My skin chemistry is very gentle on strings in general.

 

[Andy]

I went thru a big divebomb period in the 80's and I can say for myself atleast that I was constantly changing strings . it's the nature of the beast.

It didn't matter what brand whammy , or locking- non locking. brand of strings. If you play regular your going to go thru strings no matter what they cost at an increased rate.

infact I feel it might be better in the long run not not to spend an inordanete amount of money on "high end" strings.

ofcourse this depends alot on the usage as well.

 

[marnold]

I went thru a big divebomb period in the 80's and I can say for myself atleast that I was constantly changing strings . it's the nature of the beast.

It didn't matter what brand whammy , or locking- non locking. brand of strings. If you play regular your going to go thru strings no matter what they cost at an increased rate.

infact I feel it might be better in the long run not not to spend an inordanete amount of money on "high end" strings.

This is my first whammy bar so, yeah, I'm figuring that one out I think you are right about the string changes. The problem is with the Speedloader is that you need special strings that are only made by Dean Markeley (although they are sold both as DM and Floyd Rose brands). Having said that, I can pretty safely argue that the ease of string changes offsets the extra cost. I got six extra sets when a local GC was just trying to get rid of them.

If it was a standard Floyd, I'd probably just get a bunch of webstrings and use them both on my Floyd and my hardtail Fender.

My thought was that by blocking it I can at least remove the issues with floating from the equation which should theoretically allow me to play the strings longer. As a former bass player all thing string changing business is crazy. Bass strings are frightfully expensive but they last forever. I always felt that roundwounds didn't sound right until they had been worn in for a few months.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Come on man...its a Floyd Rose guitar:thwap:
Thats like taking the wheels off a skateboard cause you dont like that pesky rolling action...hardly a skateboard without em.

My suggestion is play another/different guitar.

Youre complaining about Speedloader strings?
Ive got a buddy complaining about cutting the ball end off his strings for his old school Floyd...Im sure hed gladly trade issues with you.

If your guitar is running out of tune Id think you were having lock issues or didnt have a locking nut. But you say "its a Speedloader so no locking nut issues"...Im not that familiar that I understand.

But if youre going to lock it down...I like the Trem-setter idea.

 

[marnold]

ShortBuSX:
My guitar (before mods) is the one on the left in the picture.

There is no locking nut per se because the Speedloader strings have bullet ends on both sides. They just slide into slots on the nut. Thus there cannot possibly be any slipping at the nut.

Since I want to go back to E anyway, I may just reinstall the fourth spring, install the tremsetter (although not activate it), and have a go with it. Maybe the fourth spring will add enough stiffness to counteract any early wonkiness. If not, it would be a very small matter to trem-stop it.

 

[marnold]

Well, I got the extra spring and the trem-stop thingy reinstalled as well as putting it back in standard tuning. It is my hope that between the extra tension from the fourth spring and the extra tension from tuning back up 1/2 step that some of these problems will be lessened. But, yes, it is still fully floating. I did notice that the other strings now only go slightly flat when you bend another one.

 

[thearabianmage]

It's the nature of the beast, buddy. It took me years to fully 'learn' my Floyd, and I have no regrets, albeit I may have a few grey hairs in a couple years.

And that would be worth it.

It's to the point with me now that I always say 'my next proper guitar isn't going to have a Floyd' - and what happens? I buy one with a Floyd

Haha!

At the end of the day dude, it's your axe, so weigh up your options and see what best suits you. Have you ever heard of the Hedonic Calculus (the namesake for my band btw, in case anybody got any ideas for their own bands) ? That should help you a bit.

Hope that helps, dude!

Joe

 

[marnold]

Thus far my change has been good. I prefer the string tension the way it is from a playability standpoint. I've also lost all my fret buzzing and was actually able to lower the bass side of the Floyd a bit (which probably won't hurt with tuning issues).

You're right though, Joe. Having a Floyd is a real love-hate relationship. When it works I love it. When it gets weird I hate it. All it takes is a dive-bomb or that subtle whole-chord vibrato to remind me why I have one.

It has taught me that I'd probably sooner be disemboweled alive than have a Strat-style trem.

 

[hubberjub]

Good to hear. I would keep it floating too. The Showmaster is a hardtail, right? Multiple guitars are the spice of life.

 

[thearabianmage]

Multiple guitars are the spice of life.

Too true.

Also glad to hear that you've kept your Floyd a true Floyd, Marnold. They really are a love-hate relationship. I once heard a guy in a guitar shop refer to FR's as 'the necessary evil.' That's always stuck in my head.

Of course, LP's wouldn't sound the same if they had a FR instead of the tune-o-matics, so they aren't necessary necessary, if you get what I mean, but the way I see it - you got a guitar with a FR and not every guitar can have a FR, but all guitars can have a hard-tail (or something similar to the same effect). Why not embrace the qualities imbued in your axe? :AOK:

Plus your guitar was made by Floyd Rose - it'd be a shame, really, to make a FR guitar with a FR installed a non-floater (sounds like something that happens in The John. . .)

Have fun rippin it up, dude :dude: :rockon:

 

[marnold]

Yeah, the Showmaster is really the ultimate in simplicity. Hardtail, one bridge 'bucker, one volume. Plug 'er in, crank it to 11, and peel the wallpaper. I really love that guitar.

The Floyd is far more complicated, but also far more flexible with the Floyd itself, HSS configuration, neck-on mod. The Speedloader makes string changes a breeze (and that's the biggest pain about a Floyd, IMO). All I have to do is crank the gain and do a dive bomb and I'm reminded of why I wanted a Floyd in the first place.

One pleasant advantage out of all of this is that I'm becoming pretty good at the art of Floyd maintenance. It took me about 1/2 hour to switch it from three springs in V formation to four springs straight and retuning from Eb to E.

As Katastrophe mentioned, I've been toying with the idea of getting a Tremol-no. The problem is that they aren't cheap at $65. It also seems to make an already complicated contraption even more complicated.

 

[thearabianmage]

As Katastrophe mentioned, I've been toying with the idea of getting a Tremol-no. The problem is that they aren't cheap at $65. It also seems to make an already complicated contraption even more complicated.

If you are keen on the idea of blocking the trem (your axe after all) and you are not sure whether you want to fork out $65 for a Tremol-no, I'd recommend the poor man's fix: get a few cards, duck tape them together, and stick them under the back of tremolo (under the fine-tuners) - exactly like you would if you were changing strings. This way, you see what it's like to have a blocked trem at a fraction of the cost.

*important* be sure you keep the trem at a 90 degree angle to the studs when you do this.

This is also good because if you don't dig it, you can just take the cards out and it's a waste of only 99c or however much cards are in the States (who knows, with this economic recession) and if you do dig it, then you can save up and fork out for the tremol-no.

Hope that helps!

Joe

 

[marnold]

If you are keen on the idea of blocking the trem (your axe after all) and you are not sure whether you want to fork out $65 for a Tremol-no, I'd recommend the poor man's fix: get a few cards, duck tape them together, and stick them under the back of tremolo (under the fine-tuners) - exactly like you would if you were changing strings. This way, you see what it's like to have a blocked trem at a fraction of the cost.

Well, my Speedloader already comes with something that performs a similar function. The best way to describe it is to link to the Speedloader instructions PDF. You can see it on page 6. It's basically a little allen screw in a metal bracket between the springs. You can use that screw to press against the block and make the bridge dive-only. It's also very handy at string changing time. When I only had three springs in I had to remove it. The advantage of a tremol-no is that the thumb screws are easier to use than the allen screw. The tremol-no also can make the Floyd a fixed bridge. Thus far, I haven't seen enough value in it to get one.