What is "bad electronics"?

[Robert]

You often see comments about cheap guitars, like "nice guitar, decent wood, but electronics are crap".

I know from experience that cheap guitars often have pickups of lower quality. They are the first thing to go in a cheap guitar in my eyes.

But what about the "electronics"? Wire, pots, switches (anything else?) - I can see cheap ones might break sooner, but does changing these out for more expensive one really make any difference in tone?

 

[Spudman]

Maybe no difference in tone, but a good 5 way selector switch is SO much different from a poor one. The mechanism will feel more solid and wont bend, it will switch without crackles and will indent positively and you just plain won't have to worry about it.

The quality of pots can make a difference in sound from what I've heard, but dependability and durability is more readily noticeable to me. I have guitars that are well played and over 20 years old with the original volume pots. They still sound and function great and best of all the pot gets a little smoother over time and is much more easy to use for volume swells than some of the newer mini pots. It seems the higher quality pots get better over time and the lesser quality ones just wear out.

 

[Bloozcat]

Adding to what Spudman said, the cheap components like switches and pots tend to get scratchy and sometimes develop intermitent shorts. To a somewhat lesser degree (but still noticable) are the type and quality of the capacitor(s) used in the circuit, along with the wiring type, i.e., shielded vs. non-shielded where noise can be a factor.

Another thing I've noticed with the cheap dime sized pots, is that some of them have no dampening to them at all. When you're trying to make a volume or tone adjustment on the run, it's easy to get too much effect with these pots. A slight touch and they can go from 10 to 2 when you might only want to go to 8.

 

[Robert]

But you don't notice a difference in tone?

 

[duhvoodooman]

Same observations here--the impact of better pots & switches is in function and reliability, not tone per se.

 

[marnold]

The problem with pots is even the good ones vary widely on what impedance they are rating at and what they actually are. If you replaced a stock 500K pot that was actually about 380K, you probably would notice some change with putting in a new pot that actually is close to 500K.

 

[Spudman]

But you don't notice a difference in tone?

The only difference in Tone that I notice is when you start talking about aliens and UFOs.

 

[Tone2TheBone]

Ummm.

 

[Robert]

Ahh, Spudman, my man! You are onto something! Could it be, that the "cheap electronics" (tm) were created by crash-landed aliens and they want us to use them because the contain "Alienware" that they can use to control our minds and make us suck at playing guitar? Hmm, could it be, I ponder.

 

[Bloozcat]

The problem with pots is even the good ones vary widely on what impedance they are rating at and what they actually are. If you replaced a stock 500K pot that was actually about 380K, you probably would notice some change with putting in a new pot that actually is close to 500K.

Good pots, like CTS for example, are spec'd with a +/- 10% tolerance. Theoretically, that means that a 500k pot should be between 450k and 550k, and 250k pots between 225k and 275k. But in reality I've had 500k pots range from 414k to 525k and 250k pots from 208k to 286k.

That's why I always order more pots than I need, so I can test them and only use those that are to spec. Pots are relatively cheap, so a few extras are no big deal to me. Besides, when I get 500k pots that are way below spec, I usually find other uses for them like with dark sounding pickups, maybe P-90's, or overwound single coils. Out of spec (low) 250k pots though, usually get thrown in a box.

To answer your question, Robert, yes the tone is about the same as long as the cheap parts are new. Once they wear in a little, the afore mentioned problems start.

 

[Tim]

The only difference in Tone that I notice is when you start talking about aliens and UFOs.

Somebody has your number Tone!:AOK:

 

[Tone2TheBone]

Somebody has your number Tone!:AOK:

I noticed.

Ok I'll add something pertinent to this thread. Components are only as good as the soldering you do. Make sure you use flux and solder good shiny solder joints to those fancy pots and switches. A good solder joint will sound good thus providing great tone.

 

[Tim]

Bloozcat is dead on. Good quality parts are made with tight specifications and manufactured as specified or above designed. For example Military parts and components are manufactured above the normal rage of usage. Electronic parts made for military use in tanks, ships and aircraft go through a shake & bake test program. The parts are subjected to shaking, high heat, ice, rain and frozen temperatures. This test is done while electrical power is applied and the part is actually going through a live simulation. Normally the environmental conditions are quickly met within 1-2 hours. Normally three tests are completed and everything is recorded. The testing goes way beyond the environment the part(s), component(s) will ever encounter. This is the reason military parts are so costly. If you ever seen or used an ex-military supply part, they are build solid.

Cheap parts or electronics are made below the design to cut cost. A few examples would be thiner metals, rejected resisters, capacitors,or wires from major companies. Also sub rated solder/flux which does not provide for a good joint.

Most "cheap" electronic are parts and components reject by reputable companies and are sold to lower standard companies in other countries.

Look at the toy problem in America right now. America is the only country that has a high standard on the use of lead on toys. Other countries are not troubled with toys from China with lead paint.

 

[Tim]

Components are only as good as the soldering you do. Make sure you use flux and solder good shiny solder joints to those fancy pots and switches. A good solder joint will sound good thus providing great tone.

You must have some pretty good solder joints, because your tone sounds fine to me

 

[Tone2TheBone]

You must have some pretty good solder joints, because your tone sounds fine to me

Thank you sir. :beer:

 

[chordshredder]

The difference is the real thing verses cheap chinese facisimiles of the real thing isnt it? Crappy stuff that dont work or isnt built with as heavy parts like switchcraft jacks vs cheap imitations. Switches that have half the thickness of material and bend easily. Pots that weigh half the real thing.

 

[tunghaichuan]

Even more depressing is that even current manufacture parts aren't as well built as those from a few decades before.

I've pulled 30 year old Switchcraft jacks out of gear that are noticeably thicker and better built than current manufacture.

tung

The difference is the real thing verses cheap chinese facisimiles of the real thing isnt it? Crappy stuff that dont work or isnt built with as heavy parts like switchcraft jacks vs cheap imitations. Switches that have half the thickness of material and bend easily. Pots that weigh half the real thing.

 

[TS808]

Agreed. Although there may not be a significant impact on tone, who wants to have to deal with reliability issues, whether it's on a guitar or an amp? I had a 72 reissue strat once, and although the neck and body were great, the switch was pretty cheesy, and eventually it started to get static and would crap out altogether. My brother has a 62 reissue tele that he bought in the mid 80's and it's the same thing....he's always had problems with the switch, and even the chrome from the knobs began to peel off after awhile.

Look at some of the complaints even that are out there about reliability issues with the Valvetronix amps. I haven't had any problems with mine, but the complaints are often a cheap input jack that falls inside the amp, or volume drops, or the amps just crap out altogether.

Honestly, I'd rather pay a little more up front for good quality components. By the time you replace things like switches, pots, pickups, bridge saddles, etc., you may as well have paid a few extra bucks up front.

 

[Tim]

Look at some of the complaints even that are out there about reliability issues with the Valvetronix amps. I haven't had any problems with mine, but the complaints are often a cheap input jack that falls inside the amp, or volume drops, or the amps just crap out altogether.

Next time you are not very busy, look inside your VOX AD50VT amp. If it is anything like my AD30VT, you will be looking at "Bad Electronics".

It is all about the $,$$$,$$$,$$$.$$

 

[duhvoodooman]

I'm thankful that my AD30VT has been reliable thusfar, but there are an awful lot of problems reported on these amps. The design is a very good one, IMO, but the materials and assembly quality appear to be very definitely of the "lowest bidder" variety.

And Tim is exactly right--it's all about $$$. As the manufacturer of a product like this, you pay for the engineering once upfront, and then distribute that cost over the total build. But materials and assembly costs are on a per unit basis, so that's where the skimping really occurs....

 

[Tim]

But ...... assembly costs are on a per unit basis, so that's where the skimping really occurs....

Although there is no way around it, I despise companies that offload their assembly work to third world countries. I would much rather have the work brought back home. I am willing to pay an extra cost for a better manufactured product with quality. Quality can not be built into a component. It must be engineered from the very beginning. That's how it is done with aircraft.