Do you agree with this guy?

[oldguy]

Premier Guitar quote of the week...........

"Comment of the Week "

“Not me, I want every manufacturer to concentrate HEAVILY on amp modeling because I don't want to carry an amp and cabinet (or combo) everywhere I go. It's enough carrying guitars, pedalboards, microphones, stands, cables, etc, etc, etc. I don't have to carry around an amp for my keyboard and want the same for my guitar. It's straight to P.A. baby, that's the future. Each new generation uses tubes less and less and each modeler will get better and better. After all the guys my age have died off, the end of tubes will come soon after and that's good. I vomit on guitar amps. Keep going manufacturers, you're almost there sound-wise. You still need more work but what I currently have is good enough to never have a guitar amp.”
– HateGuitarAmps, on
Vox’s new amp-
modeling ToneLab ST

What do you all think??????????

 

[Robert]

In some ways, I do. If we can get 100% of what we want tone wise from modeling technology, that would be swell. If they can get there by working harder, go for it.

On the other hand, there's something about a real good tube amp that is very attractive. Old technology, old school but great tone and life span and lots of mojo.

I think both technologies will (have to) co-exist for a long, long time to come.

 

[markb]

Well, apart from thinking that vomiting on guitar amps is not a very good idea, the Cube 60 has certainly changed my attitude to modeling amps. But when you get right down to it, it's an amp. Having enough power to be heard over the drummer is kind of useful. Not everyone has the luxury of good monitors.

 

[Spudman]

Some people build houses with hand tools and some build them with power tools. I'll work with whatever I have.

As for the comment from that person, to me it seems like he's afraid of hard work. If you want to work you need to haul your tools whatever they may be. Until recently nobody even thought they needed 10 different amphs and 25 pedals at each gig. So why does that have to change now? I feel like there is too much focus on versatility and mimicry and not enough emphasis on personality. Seems like players did fine before with less.

AND...if you are running sound from the stage it's hard as heck to get everything right without a backline. Without a soundman it's tough. When everyone just sets up their amps - balances them with the drums so they can hear each other - then add some vocals to a PA, you are ready to rock. I hate trying to get monitor mixes perfect and FOH perfect and set up the lights and my rig and tune guitars etc. I think it's simpler and quicker to do it the old school way.

 

[sumitomo]

Well they will have to make um smell like a tube amph too,before I go that rout.The smell,the hum,the tone,it gets in your blood and when you play with all these elements its magic.They can't replace that! Sumi

 

[Rocket]

Some people build houses with hand tools and some build them with power tools. I'll work with whatever I have.

As for the comment from that person, to me it seems like he's afraid of hard work. If you want to work you need to haul your tools whatever they may be. Until recently nobody even thought they needed 10 different amphs and 25 pedals at each gig. So why does that have to change now? I feel like there is too much focus on versatility and mimicry and not enough emphasis on personality. Seems like players did fine before with less.

AND...if you are running sound from the stage it's hard as heck to get everything right without a backline. Without a soundman it's tough. When everyone just sets up their amps - balances them with the drums so they can hear each other - then add some vocals to a PA, you are ready to rock. I hate trying to get monitor mixes perfect and FOH perfect and set up the lights and my rig and tune guitars etc. I think it's simpler and quicker to do it the old school way.

Exactly.
The only people with those problems are the one's attempting to recapture someone else's sound. Guitarists that have their own individuation don't have any problem, extra effort, or extra tools to sound like themselves.
Let everyone else struggle to capture YOUR sound!

 

[sumitomo]

Rocket that deserves a BIG AMEN!!!! Sumi

 

[street music]

I still have much to learn about playing but I find myself trying out a lot of amphs when I'm in the guitar shops just to see what all these new ones can do.
Yesterday I had went by to leave my new SSH Tele for a nut change and was sotting there talking with ine of the owners . This guy comes in and starts off by saying that he has bought 3 new guitars and has 4 Fender amphs and can't get a good bluesy sound out of any of them. Owner ask do you have a tube amp? No I don't! Owner says well here let me plug this Tele into this VOX VT50 and he proceeds to play some blues and dials in a real soulful sound. The customer says but it's not a Fender and you can't have a blues sound out of a british amp!
Well gang , I just sat back and watched at the other customers who joined in on the discussion as they ask the guy just what he was asking for? You know sometimes it boils down to having a sound of your own ear and no matter how good it sounds to one there is always another who doesn't like it. I can get some great sounds out of my Zoom pedal but it doesn't sound as good as some of these newest modeling amps(to my ears). I want a tube amp but haven't found the one I want to afford as of yet.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I think it would be very convenient to have a "swiss army knife" amp that dials in excellent models of various historical amphs. I don't think that hard work and such a tool would be mutually exclusive necessarily, and it might open doors for an artist varying his/her sound. The multi amp modeler I would design would have a Bassman, a Marshall of some kind, a Twin or other clean Fender, A Vox AC30 or maybe 15, and maybe my C-30 and that would be enough if they really sounded and acted just like those amphs. From there, I could find sounds I liked in each. However, I have yet to see a "Swiss Army" multipurpose style anything that did the job (other than having a multi purpose pocket sized tool for light tasks) as well as the real things. Even knives! A good locking folding blade and a good screw driver are going to beat a swiss army knife every time at their individual tasks. A 9 inch chef's blade, along with a good boning knife with some flex, but not too much, will always trump a folding knife if I am preparing food.

I am no authority, just a ****** really, but when I go and listen to amphs, I get drawn in by good tube amph sounds. The modelers can sound good, but I prefer learning the nuances of one good piece of equipment. I guess that is how you develop your own sound as Rocket and Spud suggest.

So I guess it would be nice if he was right, and one box contained at least a few models that really gave all the sound, nuances and feeling of the amphs it tries to model, but I am not holding my breath, and right now, I have plenty to explore developing some sounds I enjoy with my one tube amph.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I want a tube amp but haven't found the one I want to afford as of yet.

Jeez, I wish I believed this much in the concept that desire creates the universe.

 

[tunghaichuan]

The thing that concerns me about modeling technology is that it is basically disposable. It is made to be disposable because the technology improves geometrically. And once the old technology is dated, it finds its way into the landfill. There is no money in making modeling technology robust as it becomes outdated too quickly.

What I like about tube amplifier technology is that it is renewable. There are amps from the 1930s that still operate just fine. Of course there are tube amps that are meant to be inexpensive and are cheaply built and meant to be disposable.

tung

 

[just strum]

"It's enough carrying guitars, pedalboards, microphones, stands, cables, etc, etc, etc."

This guy is seems more intent on complaining about adding an amp to the list of things he has to haul? If he has that much of an issue, then he should focus more on hiring a roadie and less on the advancement of modelers.

Personally I like the search for "my sound". I never wanted to find "Clapton's sound" or anyone else's really. My search for sound is within the sounds related to genre. Having pedals, for me just the ME50, and a straight forward amp make the search for sound part of the fun in playing guitar.

I don't really want to intentionally sound like a specific person, however I would not deny wanting to play as good as....

Being primarily a bedroom player, the ease of moving equipment isn't an issue. Plus, what I do have doesn't cause an issue when I do take it over a friends house. My issue is deciding on what guitar to take and I end up taking three or four.

 

[Katastrophe]

Modelers are great because they can pack a lot of different tones into a very small, portable package. Modelers are the current hot ticket item, much like rack processors and MIDI systems were in the mid to late 80s.

I like 'em.

HOWEVER, there's something to be said for plugging in, turning a knob or two and wailing away. The learning curve for modelers can be a huge pain in the butt.

Anyone, anyone that thinks they need a zillion different amphs to get "their sound" either doesn't know what "their sound" is, or is just brainwashed by marketing hype.

My "rig" takes all of about 2 minutes to set up, and it ain't that heavy. If complaining about carrying an amph and all the gear is the issue, then that person should just go acoustic and quit b*tching!

 

[markb]

The thing that concerns me about modeling technology is that it is basically disposable. It is made to be disposable because the technology improves geometrically. And once the old technology is dated, it finds its way into the landfill. There is no money in making modeling technology robust as it becomes outdated too quickly.

What I like about tube amplifier technology is that it is renewable. There are amps from the 1930s that still operate just fine. Of course there are tube amps that are meant to be inexpensive and are cheaply built and meant to be disposable.

tung

But, if a modeling amp sounds good today it will keep on sounding good for as long as it lasts. It may be superseded by the "new, improved" model but is still a useful item. I doubt Ibanez thought they were making an inferior product when they replaced the TS808 with the TS9.

The difficulty of repair is what causes the short life of most solid state amps. But then this also true for PCB based valve amps. Bear in mind that valve manufacture is an environmental no-no in most western countries. This is why most valves today are made in former Soviet bloc countries and China. As environmental controls tighten, that manufacture will dry up. Guitarists are not a mass market in realpolitik terms.

 

[hubberjub]

Modeling amps have their place. I love my Tone Port for recording demos but I would never use one live in my band. A modeling amp would probably be great if you are in a cover band that does a variety of different styles.

 

[Spudman]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

 

[lurcher]

So as technology advances we're all to sound the same? No ta.
And when electrics kill off acoustic guitars, we'll all be playing MIK Strats for every sound the manufacturers allow us! This smacks of the sort of evil Sony brought to recorded music (nearly).
BTW I play through a Yale SS slaved into a tube head and 800w 4x12. Like to see anyone replicate that!

 

[Tibernius]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

Closest I can think of is Brad Delson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uo5E6dtyIs

He uses Randall MTS amps, which are tube Pre-Amps based on other amps. So you could have one amp with, say, a Vox AC30 TB, a MESA and a Soldano pre-amp.


Personally I'd rather have a valve (tube) amp. I've yet to hear a modelling amp than can get close to that tone.

 

[hubberjub]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

The only person I can think of is John Bell from Widespread Panic. He uses two Line 6 Vetta combos. He's not really known for having a 'signature sound' though. It's kind of a running joke because I've never really been able to hear him at a show. You can buy t-shirts that say "Turn J.B. up".

 

[marnold]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

Geddy Lee. Bass->rackmount SansAmp BDDI->PA. I've heard of others too but my mind is not functioning at this point following preaching three sermons in four days.

Of course, major artists can afford anything they want. If they want a zillion amps, they can have them. Most of my favorite guitarists have had more amps than I've had hot dinners--George Lynch being the most notorious. Add to that pedal boards that are big enough to land commercial aircraft on and there ya go. As long as they've got the $$ or the endorsement, there's precious little reason to get a modeling amp. For most people, even most artists, that's simply not possible.

 

[Katastrophe]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

Weezer did an entire tour using rackmount POD units, direct to the PA, no amphs at all.

Ben Moody, formerly of Evanescence, used Line 6 HD 147 units live.

Ron Thal (Bumblefoot) of Guns N' Roses uses Vettas in his live rig.

Dave Mustaine used a set of prototype Line 6 heads on tour for about a minute.

 

[Plank_Spanker]

Can anyone name a major artist, someone with a signature sound, that uses a modeling amp live?

Adrian Belew - Johnson JM150. But he really doesn't have a "signature" sound.

As far as modeling amps go, I've made extensive use of them of - to get close enough for the covers I'm doing and have my own sound.

Tube amps won't be going away any time soon......................

 

[TS808]

Modelers are great because they can pack a lot of different tones into a very small, portable package. Modelers are the current hot ticket item, much like rack processors and MIDI systems were in the mid to late 80s.

I think modeling technology is here to stay though, whether digital or analog.

I think there are some guitarists who simply won't even TRY modeling technology because it's NOT tube.....That being said, I think tubes do sound better, but the digital gear is getting alot better and will give you a pretty good tone.

Companies like Tech 21, Vox, Fender, and Line 6 have done some good work with modeling technology and I think it will continue to develop. Modeling technology is still relatively new so there is a long way to go yet.

Modeling has the advantage of versatility, whereas many tube amps can be one trick ponies. Time will tell.

More and more, alot of pros are trying digital technology. Heck, even Buddy Guy jumped on the Cybertwin wagon for a while.

 

[ZMAN]

I liken this whole thing to technological advances. I remember my first computer class in College in 1968. The professor said that the only limit in the size of a component is the distance that an electrical impulse has to travel. When Captain Kirk pulled out his comunicator and talked to the ship through this little hand held flip thing we were incredulous. Now every person on the planet is carrying one that has more storage in it than a whole room of computers ten years ago.
I personally am finding it harder and harder to tell the difference from a model and a real tube amp. (Sorry I just can't say amph).
If I could get a solid state amp that sounded as good as my tubes I would buy it in a second.
But somethings will still stay the same. You need a speaker! I guess the issue is size and weight. Maybe the technology should be going towards a lightweight speaker that sounds as goods as those old boat anchors we love.
A lot of the sweet tones we get are the tubes at breaking point and that should be an easy model. That alone will save 50 or 60 lbs of weight.
I kind of agree with the guy. Like our auto industry. It is time they came up with a better more efficient power plant, than the ones they designed in 1955. Amps today should blow away the old technology.
Funny though yesterday I picked up a radial hot british pedal and it has a tube in it. LOL.

 

[Jipes]

Premier Guitar quote of the week...........

What do you all think??????????

Ain't nothing more magic than a guitar directly plugged into a tube amp :dude: Don't need hundred sounds to be expressive in your playing. At least in the music that I love Soul and Blues

 

[pie_man_25]

I agree, I have a halfstack (for my bass) that I have to carry EVERYWHERE, not to mention my bass, which has a nice new, heavy, hardshell case, plus the fact that I have to get a double bass (I'm attending university, and they don't teach electric bass), which is much bigger, to reduce the amount of crap one must carry is a good thing.

 

[djmcconnell]

Interesting discussion.

Since I come to this discussion as a lifetime piano player, the closest comparison to this is for people who play a grand piano and then use electronic keyboards to play in a band.

Yes, it's a way different sound, but you can choose from hundreds of patches that sound like electric pianos, organs, clavs, strings, etc. They clearly don't sound as good as the original instrument, but in a band mix -- for the right song -- it's going to sound much better than if I just played a Steinway grand all the time. And be more sonically interesting as well.

So for me, there's room for both. As a noob to electric guitars, modeling was a good choice for me from a cost perspective and to have some different sounds to experiment with as I find my way.

 

[TS808]

Interesting discussion.

Since I come to this discussion as a lifetime piano player, the closest comparison to this is for people who play a grand piano and then use electronic keyboards to play in a band.

Yes, it's a way different sound, but you can choose from hundreds of patches that sound like electric pianos, organs, clavs, strings, etc. They clearly don't sound as good as the original instrument, but in a band mix -- for the right song -- it's going to sound much better than if I just played a Steinway grand all the time. And be more sonically interesting as well.

So for me, there's room for both. As a noob to electric guitars, modeling was a good choice for me from a cost perspective and to have some different sounds to experiment with as I find my way.

This is actually a good point...look how readily accepted the synthesizer was when it first came out. Plus, alot of us have no problem at all using MIDI to create drums, horns, keyboards or strings on our recording software. Yet, when it comes to guitar amps, us guitarists aren't as adaptive or flexible.

 

[mrmudcat]

Tubes tubes for me. as for my t0ne irts mine!

 

[Rocket]

Tubes tubes for me. as for my t0ne irts mine!

Same here +1.