Modding and resale

[Eric]

I see people taking their guitars/amps/pedals and customizing them all of the time. I've done a tiny amount of this in the past (pups, tuners, etc.). My question to everyone here is this: outside of different (brand name) pickups in a guitar, do modifications ever actually make you more interested in a piece of equipment?

For me, I think the answer is no. At least, not to the point of what the seller wants in return. For example, if I see a decent guitar that has had new pots/caps/pups put in, I might be more inclined to buy it, but the seller will probably want a ton of extra money for it, to the point where it's not worth it for a guitar customized to someone else.

It seems like, at best, you will not get your money back from mods. At worst, it seems to lower the resale value of equipment. Agree? Disagree? What has been your experience in the past? I'm up for changing my opinion -- just curious what people smarter than me have to say.

 

[Heywood Jablomie]

It's difficult to find a concensus about what used gear is worth, modified or otherwise. It does seem to me that sellers more often than not expect more than is reasonable (to me). But all a seller needs is just one buyer, and sometimes they find one. I often see overpriced gear relisted again and again on Craigslist. I'm with you that good mods might make a guitar more saleable, but not necessarily more valuable.

 

[vroomery]

It definitely depends on a bunch of variables. The biggest variable is probably who did the modding. A pedal will probably sell for a good bit more if it says "Keeley" in the title/description. Nash Guitars is another example. If you did the modding yourself it's pretty unlikely that the resale value will go up.

 

[tunghaichuan]

For me, I guess it depends.

One thing to take into account is the skill of the modder. I'm usually put off modded gear unless a "name" tech did the modding. In my view some modded gear is less desirable because there is always the question of: "was it done correctly?"

In some cases modding gear makes it less valuable because it will cost money to put it back to stock.

Another thing to consider is if the mod uses drop in parts, i.e., no physical modification to the gear. Changing tuners to a high quality type with the same physical dimensions is okay, but routing a '56 Strat for a humbucker isn't.

When all the Valve Junior mods came out, a lot of modders learned that putting $300 into a $100 amp does not make it worth $400. If the mods were not installed correctly, if anything was damaged, then the amp could be worthless.

On the other end, putting a set of GFS pickups into a PRS guitar is a definite step down. Not that there is anything wrong with GFS pickups, but who is going to buy a $2000 with $50 worth of replacement pickups? Especially if the modder got rid of the originals.

Also you have to take resale into account. If you plan on keeping a piece of gear forever, then it is okay to do anything you want. But how many of us do that?

For a lot of modders, it's about learning. I have way more money in my Valve Juniors than I'll ever be able to get back out. But I also have a lot of knowledge about how to improve the sound of an amp. And also what not to do to.

Bottom line for me is keep it stock.

I see people taking their guitars/amps/pedals and customizing them all of the time. I've done a tiny amount of this in the past (pups, tuners, etc.). My question to everyone here is this: outside of different (brand name) pickups in a guitar, do modifications ever actually make you more interested in a piece of equipment?

For me, I think the answer is no. At least, not to the point of what the seller wants in return. For example, if I see a decent guitar that has had new pots/caps/pups put in, I might be more inclined to buy it, but the seller will probably want a ton of extra money for it, to the point where it's not worth it for a guitar customized to someone else.

It seems like, at best, you will not get your money back from mods. At worst, it seems to lower the resale value of equipment. Agree? Disagree? What has been your experience in the past? I'm up for changing my opinion -- just curious what people smarter than me have to say.

 

[guitarhack]

I don't have much experience in this department, but when I bought my Squier '51 it's stock pickups had been replaced with some old tele pickups according to the seller. I haven't removed them to make certain, because they sure sound nice. However, he included the stock pickups with the guitar along with a hardshell case, so it seemed like a fair deal to me.

IMHO, mods can even detract from the value of the guitar, especially if it's a collectible sort. My DeArmond M-75 had the original v/t knobs replaced with speed knobs, which didn't fit the posts on the pots very well, so I replaced them with NOS knobs, which suit my playing better and look better to my eyes.

 

[Eric]

For me, I guess it depends.

One thing to take into account is the skill of the modder. I'm usually put off modded gear unless a "name" tech did the modding. In my view some modded gear is less desirable because there is always the question of: "was it done correctly?"

In some cases modding gear makes it less valuable because it will cost money to put it back to stock.

Another thing to consider is if the mod uses drop in parts, i.e., no physical modification to the gear. Changing tuners to a high quality type with the same physical dimensions is okay, but routing a '56 Strat for a humbucker isn't.

When all the Valve Junior mods came out, a lot of modders learned that putting $300 into a $100 amp does not make it worth $400. If the mods were not installed correctly, if anything was damaged, then the amp could be worthless.

On the other end, putting a set of GFS pickups into a PRS guitar is a definite step down. Not that there is anything wrong with GFS pickups, but who is going to buy a $2000 with $50 worth of replacement pickups? Especially if the modder got rid of the originals.

Also you have to take resale into account. If you plan on keeping a piece of gear forever, then it is okay to do anything you want. But how many of us do that?

For a lot of modders, it's about learning. I have way more money in my Valve Juniors than I'll ever be able to get back out. But I also have a lot of knowledge about how to improve the sound of an amp. And also what not to do to.

Bottom line for me is keep it stock.

I think this reflects a lot of my initial thoughts on the topic.

The one thing I've found is that, no matter how much you think you'll never sell the gear you're purchasing, you might prove yourself wrong.

 

[Heywood Jablomie]

The one thing I've found is that, no matter how much you think you'll never sell the gear you're purchasing, you might prove yourself wrong.

In the context of this thread, my opinion is simply this: No matter what you think your used equipment is worth, you're probably wrong, and don't expect to get anything near your original investment.

 

[Eric]

In the context of this thread, my opinion is simply this: No matter what you think your used equipment is worth, you're probably wrong, and don't expect to get anything near your original investment.

Yup, I pretty much agree with that. It's a rare bird that actually goes up in value (TS808, vintage Les Pauls, etc.), but I think everyone figures their stuff is almost as good as new, so why shouldn't they get 90% of the value?

The problem there is that people shopping for used stuff aren't viewing it as almost as good as a new one. If they were, they'd just buy a new one. They're viewing it as a chance to get something at 50% discount that's not much worse than new.

When people do that buy-my-20-year-old-pedal-for-85%-of-the-brand-new-price thing, I just chalk it up to them not really being ready to sell yet.

 

[Heywood Jablomie]

Yup, I pretty much agree with that. It's a rare bird that actually goes up in value (TS808, vintage Les Pauls, etc.), but I think everyone figures their stuff is almost as good as new, so why shouldn't they get 90% of the value?

The problem there is that people shopping for used stuff aren't viewing it as almost as good as a new one. If they were, they'd just buy a new one. They're viewing it as a chance to get something at 50% discount that's not much worse than new.

When people do that buy-my-20-year-old-pedal-for-85%-of-the-brand-new-price thing, I just chalk it up to them not really being ready to sell yet.

Here's one I ran into. A woman was trying to sell a Seagull S6 for $400, which is WAY too high. Her response when I explained the used guitar market and prices was that she'd rather have it sit in the closet unsold than sell it for less than she wanted. Go figure.

 

[Eric]

Here's one I ran into. A woman was trying to sell a Seagull S6 for $400, which is WAY too high. Her response when I explained the used guitar market and prices was that she'd rather have it sit in the closet unsold than sell it for less than she wanted. Go figure.

Exactly my point -- she wasn't ready to sell. I guess her pride is worth more than the cash. I can accept that.

 

[kiteman]

I had my Handsome Devil half stack and my Carvin Bolt kit guitar for what I thought was a fair price ($700) and I can't see myself taking any less. I listed all the upgrades on both so they're better stuff.

Nope, the people don't see it.

 

[markb]

How many times do you read "I spent $500 modding my $500 amp and now it sounds as good as any $1000 amp"? Your chances of getting that extra investment back is slim to non-existent. A Fender Blues Jr is still a Fender Blues Jr on the open market whatever you do to it. Same goes for Squiers or Epiphones with upgraded pickups.

 

[marnold]

Yeah I took a bit of a bath in selling my modded Floyd. In retrospect I should have put the old pups back in because I don't think I would have gotten any less for it. Very few instruments retain value much less appreciate in value. Modded ones, less so.

 

[hubberjub]

If I mod something I'm going to keep it. I don't think that most mods will increase the monetary value of a guitar or amp. It may improve the sound but you probably wont see any return on your investment. It's like looking through the local used car listings and seeing a kid selling a 1995 Honda Civic with 20" rims expecting to get his money back. It's just not going to happen.

 

[markb]

I suppose at least with a guitar (or a car or a bike) you can sell it in parts to get some of your extra costs back. Not so with an amp or a pedal.

 

[Eric]

I suppose at least with a guitar (or a car or a bike) you can sell it in parts to get some of your extra costs back. Not so with an amp or a pedal.

That's a very good point. You can always (or usually, anyway) put the stock stuff back in on a guitar.

 

[Eric]

I had my Handsome Devil half stack and my Carvin Bolt kit guitar for what I thought was a fair price ($700) and I can't see myself taking any less. I listed all the upgrades on both so they're better stuff.

Nope, the people don't see it.

As in both of them together for $700?

This is just me, but I would never buy things packaged together, and I wouldn't care about upgrades in the least. From my consumer perspective, if you won't sell them separately and are selling either for more than 60% of street price new (with or without mods), I'd probably move on.

That's kind of the point of this thread though -- I know what my purchasing philosophies are, but I guess I'm curious about those of everyone else. Kiteman, do you buy modded stuff? Will you pay extra for it if it was modded by someone else?

 

[deeaa]

Completely depends on the case in point. With guitars originally worth a few hundred or so, most mods would make it worth more. Like putting Fender or Seymour pickups in a squire, etc. or rdplacing frets with better ones. You might get a guitar so modded for the price of pickups alone. But for the seller modding hardly ever is profitable in terms of costs, even if you did get the value higher, it won't be by as much you spent flr mods.

I mod my guitars for use and dont care for resale value. But when I still used brand name guitars, I always made sure all my mods were easily retraced back to original specs.

But these days I pretty much believe you can put together a guitar for a few hundred, that will be just as good or better than any guitar worth thousands. All the rest is just brand, looks and superstition or beliefs.

 

[kiteman]

As in both of them together for $700?

This is just me, but I would never buy things packaged together, and I wouldn't care about upgrades in the least. From my consumer perspective, if you won't sell them separately and are selling either for more than 60% of street price new (with or without mods), I'd probably move on.

That's kind of the point of this thread though -- I know what my purchasing philosophies are, but I guess I'm curious about those of everyone else. Kiteman, do you buy modded stuff? Will you pay extra for it if it was modded by someone else?

I bought modded stuff but I don't know if I paid extra for them.

For example I bought a Gibson SG special faded with SD Pearly Gates and SD Alnico II Pro for $650. I sold the SG for $600. I traded my Fender Gdec Jr for a JS20 Dinky with SD Distortion pup in the bridge. .

I bought the Bolt with upgrades and later put on an HSH pickguard. Total cost was over $700. The amp's just have better tubes and total cost close to $600. The amps didn't come with speaker cables so that was extra costs.

I tried to sell them as a set for Fathers Day.

 

[Eric]

I bought modded stuff but I don't know if I paid extra for them.

For example I bought a Gibson SG special faded with SD Pearly Gates and SD Alnico II Pro for $650. I sold the SG for $600. I traded my Fender Gdec Jr for a JS20 Dinky with SD Distortion pup in the bridge. .

I bought the Bolt with upgrades and later put on an HSH pickguard. Total cost was over $700. The amp's just have better tubes and total cost close to $600. The amps didn't come with speaker cables so that was extra costs.

I tried to sell them as a set for Fathers Day.

Hmm, so you will buy stuff with upgraded pickups. That doesn't seem to be too far off from my MO.

I bet if you sold the Carvin for $300-$350 and the amp separately for $300 you would find a buyer. It looks like the Bolt (assembled) is $650 on Carvin's site.

 

[kiteman]

Hmm, so you will buy stuff with upgraded pickups. That doesn't seem to be too far off from my MO.

I bet if you sold the Carvin for $300-$350 and the amp separately for $300 you would find a buyer. It looks like the Bolt (assembled) is $650 on Carvin's site.

True that but that's the basic Bolt without the upgrades. Granted mine was a kit that sell for $379 basic but I upgraded mine with the walnut body, stainless steel frets, Graph Tech saddles and 10" radius. That was with white pearloid PG and bucker in the bridge (HSS). Later I put on the HSH PG.

Anyway I think I'll keep the guitar and just sell the amp for $300.

EDIT: I jammed on my new amp with the Bolt and I was thinking that I'm crazy to sell this guitar.

 

[marnold]

EDIT: I jammed on my new amp with the Bolt and I was thinking that I'm crazy to sell this guitar.

Then it's good it didn't sell! For whatever reason despite being great instruments Carvins do not hold their value well at all. You'd be lucky to get a fraction of what you paid for it.

 

[kiteman]

Then it's good it didn't sell! For whatever reason despite being great instruments Carvins do not hold their value well at all. You'd be lucky to get a fraction of what you paid for it.

Yea you're right. I feel that a good guitar can hold its value but as ya'll point it out the people don't see it that way.

 

[Eric]

Yea you're right. I feel that a good guitar can hold its value but as ya'll point it out the people don't see it that way.

Good thing you did keep it.

I think that for most people, they don't care about the walnut body, upgraded saddles, etc. They probably just hear "Carvin Bolt" and know all they care to know about how much it should cost. You're the one who knows the most about the guitar and its quality, but you're also the one trying to sell it.

At least all of this means there are good deals to be had out there too!

 

[Heywood Jablomie]

There are two things to be concluded from this discussion, IMO:

1) For the buyer, patience will eventually pay off big-time, and you will ultimately get something you like for an incredibly low price (like my $50 Affinity Strat) - a price that you could easily recover if you decide to resell. If that used whatever is something you must have now, be prepared to pay more than it might really be worth.

2) For the seller, either be realistic and prepared to sell at 50-60% of the street price of a new one, or be prepared for a long wait. Or hope for good luck or a sucker.

 

[ZMAN]

I had a friend put a set of rare origninal Joe Barden pickups, in a MIM telecaster. It sounded killer and had great action and playablility. He decided to sell it and thought with the pickups he could get 400 for it. No takers even though he explained the pickups were worth 300 easily.
So he put the originals back in it. He had the original boxes for the Joe Bardens. He put them both up for sale and got 325 for the guitar and 275 for the pickups in separate auctions. He had purchased the pickups years ago and never installed them in anything. Then Joe Barden stopped making them and they were originals, so they were worth a lot.

 

[Eric]

I had a friend put a set of rare origninal Joe Barden pickups, in a MIM telecaster. It sounded killer and had great action and playablility. He decided to sell it and thought with the pickups he could get 400 for it. No takers even though he explained the pickups were worth 300 easily.
So he put the originals back in it. He had the original boxes for the Joe Bardens. He put them both up for sale and got 325 for the guitar and 275 for the pickups in separate auctions. He had purchased the pickups years ago and never installed them in anything. Then Joe Barden stopped making them and they were originals, so they were worth a lot.

That's a pretty funny story, and I feel like it encapsulates the whole concept of modding/resale very well. People aren't looking for your friend's choice of customization in a guitar when they buy it, but the pickups would still be very valuable to someone.

 

[Heywood Jablomie]

I had a friend put a set of rare origninal Joe Barden pickups, in a MIM telecaster. It sounded killer and had great action and playablility. He decided to sell it and thought with the pickups he could get 400 for it. No takers even though he explained the pickups were worth 300 easily.
So he put the originals back in it. He had the original boxes for the Joe Bardens. He put them both up for sale and got 325 for the guitar and 275 for the pickups in separate auctions. He had purchased the pickups years ago and never installed them in anything. Then Joe Barden stopped making them and they were originals, so they were worth a lot.

I'm confused......

 

[Eric]

I'm confused......

I think what he's saying is that he didn't realize how much the pickups were worth on their own. Having them be out of production ramped up the value significantly -- not having the pickups in a guitar for many years (not "never") made their value appreciate.

At least that was my take.

 

[kiteman]

I think what he's saying is that he didn't realize how much the pickups were worth on their own. Having them be out of production ramped up the value significantly -- not having the pickups in a guitar for many years (not "never") made their value appreciate.

At least that was my take.

NOS.

I bought a set of Carvin pup made in the 80s a few months ago. They were black ring, red bezel. Funny thing is that the pups sounded good in an amp that's modeled from the 80s amp.