Nfl 2010

[Beerman]

So, as of today, who's in the SB? I see it as New England and Green Bay. I think GB and Atlanta go to the NFC championship and GB beats them but NE takes it all. I don't think anyone can beat them if their defense continues to play like they do.
My Saints are gone. Even if they manage to beat the Seahawks, they are beat up (who isn't at this time of year?) but they have no fire. It burned out last year.

 

[Commodore 64]

Mangini never had a chance. They gave him 1/2 a season last year, and then brought in Holmgren who made him a lame duck. Of 3 things I am certain:

1. The Browns are terrible
2. It's not all Mangini's fault.
3. Here we go again on the coaching carousel.

 

[Eric]

So, as of today, who's in the SB? I see it as New England and Green Bay. I think GB and Atlanta go to the NFC championship and GB beats them but NE takes it all. I don't think anyone can beat them if their defense continues to play like they do.
My Saints are gone. Even if they manage to beat the Seahawks, they are beat up (who isn't at this time of year?) but they have no fire. It burned out last year.

Good question. This might seem weird, but I think NE winning it will depend on the hype. For whatever reason, it seems like when nobody gives an underdog any shot at winning a big game (e.g. NE/STL 01, NYG/NE 07, NO/IND 09), the giant is toppled. I don't know why that is, but it's something I've noticed.

My preliminary picks for the SB are....aw heck, I'll make some ridiculous prediction: Eagles over Ravens. How's that for absurd?

 

[Eric]

Mangini never had a chance. They gave him 1/2 a season last year, and then brought in Holmgren who made him a lame duck. Of 3 things I am certain:

1. The Browns are terrible
2. It's not all Mangini's fault.
3. Here we go again on the coaching carousel.

So who would you like? Freshly fired coach (John Fox)? Coach fired a long time ago (Gruden/Cowher)? College coach? Offensive coordinator? Defensive coordinator? Internal guy from the Browns' current staff?

 

[Commodore 64]

So who would you like? Freshly fired coach (John Fox)? Coach fired a long time ago (Gruden/Cowher)? College coach? Offensive coordinator? Defensive coordinator? Internal guy from the Browns' current staff?

I don't care who it is, so long as they get a solid 4-5 years to build, without Holmgren/Lerner caving to media and fans.

John Fox coached a 2 and 14 team, that's gonna be a hard sell. Gruden won a Superbowl but was less than stellar in other gigs. There are going to be a lot of coaching vacancies this year...who in their right mind would want to coach the Browns with their fickle fans and management?

 

[Eric]

I don't care who it is, so long as they get a solid 4-5 years to build, without Holmgren/Lerner caving to media and fans.

John Fox coached a 2 and 14 team, that's gonna be a hard sell. Gruden won a Superbowl but was less than stellar in other gigs. There are going to be a lot of coaching vacancies this year...who in their right mind would want to coach the Browns with their fickle fans and management?

Dunno. I think I heard about some Holmgren/Fox connection yesterday or today, so that might actually happen. Fox also coached a team to the Superbowl, right?

Honestly, I have no idea what makes for a good head coach. You can find success stories and failures with every type of coaching hire out there. I guess you just have to hope you're lucky. Though the Browns don't seem to be very good, I think it's safe to say they have at least a couple of things they could build on...right? Maybe? McCoy? Hillis? Cribbs?

 

[R_of_G]

Gruden won a Superbowl but was less than stellar in other gigs.

Whichever team takes Gruden is going to be in for some major disappointment. As a Bucs' fan, I watched him take a championship team built by Rich McKay and Tony Dungy and coached to the max on defense by Monte Kiffin and then never win another playoff game in subsequent seasons.

I've never gotten the whole fascination with Jon Gruden. He was overrated as a coach. I think he's a terrible analyst who does little more than make obvious comments laced with superlatives. He's hardly the hardcore film breakdown guy he's hyped to be, unlike his MNF partner Ron Jaworski who does a great job of analyzing game film. Gruden is the NFL version of Barry Melrose.

I hope more than anything he goes to a team I can't stand, like the Dolphins, and runs them into the ground. Cleveland fans deserve better.

As for Beerman's question of who plays in the SB... I'll say Atlanta and Pittsburgh. New England is good but not invincible. If there is a team that can play defense well enough to stop them, it's Pittsburgh. Atlanta is top of the class of the NFC, but really, the NFC is anyone's to win at this point, except Seattle.

 

[Eric]

Gruden is the NFL version of Barry Melrose.

:rotflmao:

While you seem to have a copious amount of vitriol of John-O, I'm also not his biggest fan. I had a similar impression of his work in Tampa. I would have to say, however, that he's not as overrated as someone like Cris Carter when it comes to NFL analysts.

Merril Hoge and Ron Jaworski, on the other hand (and, to a lesser degree, Cris Collinsworth and a few others), are two guys that I do trust when it comes to insightful analysis.

All of that having been said, Gruden's name is definitely out there when it comes to coaching vacancies. We'll see what happens...

 

[R_of_G]

:rotflmao:

While you seem to have a copious amount of vitriol of John-O, I'm also not his biggest fan. I had a similar impression of his work in Tampa. I would have to say, however, that he's not as overrated as someone like Cris Carter when it comes to NFL analysts.

I think much of it comes from living here and being a Bucs' fan. I'd like to have seen that team stay in contention rather than linger in mediocrity and now first begin rebuilding.

And yeah, Carter was a great receiver, but not at all interesting or informative as an analyst.

Merril Hoge and Ron Jaworski, on the other hand (and, to a lesser degree, Cris Collinsworth and a few others), are two guys that I do trust when it comes to insightful analysis.

Couldn't agree more on Hoge and Jaws. The "NFL Matchup" show they do with Sal Paolantonio on Sunday mornings is the one program that actually provides legitimate insight into how teams do what they do.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I also think Trent Dilfer is doing a very good job as an analyst for ESPN.

All of that having been said, Gruden's name is definitely out there when it comes to coaching vacancies. We'll see what happens...

No doubt. I'd say after Cowher, he's probably got his pick of whatever job he wants. If Harbaugh turns down San Francisco for Michigan, I could easily see Gruden taking that job. He also has a strong relationship with Holmgren, though I'm not sure if he has his pick of jobs, he's picking Cleveland (it sure didn't work out that way for LeBron).

I just hope he takes a job so he's out of the MNF broadcast booth. I hope they replace him with a defensive-minded analyst to balance out Jaworski's offensive insights.

 

[Eric]

I just hope he takes a job so he's out of the MNF broadcast booth. I hope they replace him with a defensive-minded analyst to balance out Jaworski's offensive insights.

Interesting point. When was the last time they had a good combo on Monday nights? It seems like it's been kind of chaotic ever since the Dennis Miller debacle. The last stable combo I can remember was Al Michaels, Frank Gifford and...Dan Dierdorf?

 

[R_of_G]

The last stable combo I can remember was Al Michaels, Frank Gifford and...Dan Dierdorf?

That'd be my answer as well. Miller was a disaster. Rush was a mega-disaster. Kornheiser was a good idea poorly executed. There has to be a compelling ex-defensive coordinator and/or defensive player with broadcasting skills out there to pair with Jaws.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Seahawks over the Rams! I'll take it!

 

[marnold]

That'd be my answer as well. Miller was a disaster. Rush was a mega-disaster. Kornheiser was a good idea poorly executed. There has to be a compelling ex-defensive coordinator and/or defensive player with broadcasting skills out there to pair with Jaws.

A couple of years ago they had a booth for the second MNF game (they had two the first week). I can't remember who the play-by-play guy was but the color guys were Jaws and Dick Vermeil. I thought that was awesome, personally. I remember a friend and I wondering why they weren't the main MNF group.

Of course, it's irrelevant right now since we no longer get ESPN.

 

[R_of_G]

A couple of years ago they had a booth for the second MNF game (they had two the first week). I can't remember who the play-by-play guy was but the color guys were Jaws and Dick Vermeil. I thought that was awesome, personally. I remember a friend and I wondering why they weren't the main MNF group.

Of course, it's irrelevant right now since we no longer get ESPN.

Another situation where the B-Team announcers are better than the supposed big-game guys.

I find CBS games called by Gus Johnson a lot more interesting than Jim Nantz. Gus Johnson could play-by-play paint peeling and make it sound like the most intensely compelling event in recorded history.

 

[R_of_G]

Somebody reminded the Jets at halftime that they were a ground and pound team. That overcame what was becoming a terrible game for Sanchez.

The defense looked tough, despite still not being able to garner a pass rush. Revis elminated Reggie Wayne from the game entirely. Brodney Pool made some huge plays early to force the Colts to punt. Cromartie got burned several times, but made up for it with two excellent kick returns, particularly the one at the end to set up the Jets for the winning FG drive.

On to Foxboro to face the steamroller that is the Patriots. Nobody will give the Jets a chance to win, but we'll see what happens on the field.

Until then... J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I am laughing all the way to the bank. The Seahawks, winners of their division with a losing record, stunning New Orleans!! HA!! :thumbsup

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/01/new_orleans_saints_stunned_by_1.html

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6003208

I suppose some may say that not all division winners should host games, have some other disadvantage, maybe not even be in the playoffs. I say if you start changing the rules that way, you start favoring the more metropolitan, larger market teams even more. But whatever your view on that, well, I am just enjoying the win! :happy :thumbsup ancake

 

[piebaldpython]

On to Foxboro to face the steamroller that is the Patriots. Nobody will give the Jets a chance to win, but we'll see what happens on the field.

Congrats to R & G and SVL on their wins. :applause The Seahawks hung in there at the end and won. The Jets came through. The Colts actually scored too soon at the end and the Jets took advantage and won.

As to playing the Pats.....pray for a clear field and a minimum of 40 degrees. That's the only chance the Jets (or most any other team for that matter) have. The colder and whiter the field, the less chance you have.

Go IGGLES!!!! The Maalox is at the ready.

 

[R_of_G]

I suppose some may say that not all division winners should host games, have some other disadvantage, maybe not even be in the playoffs. I say if you start changing the rules that way, you start favoring the more metropolitan, larger market teams even more.

I'm not sure I understand how changing the seeding system favors larger market teams.

If you seeded based on record instead of giving division winners preference New Orleans would have hosted the game instead of Seattle. New Orleans is a significantly smaller market than Seattle (population nearly 1/3 the size of Seattle's).

Just to note, I'm not blaming the home field advantage for the Saints' loss. The Saints didn't play defense and when you don't play defense, home or away, you deserve to lose.

Still, I think the league puts too much emphasis on "division winners" when teams play only 6 games in their division, less than half of their schedule.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

To be clear, I was not referring to how the rule would operate in this instance, but the overall effect in application. A larger market team (shall I just say more eastern team) may likely have a better overall record when other divisions are weaker. But I feel professional and college sports are very "East" centric as it is. I believe it has to do with the number of viewers for TV purposes at least in part. But I say, make those teams come out west once in a while.

A separate thought. From a guy whose teams have almost always been underdogs, I get tired of the pundits who say a game was a fluke and the gae stats say this and that about who "should have" won. To me, that is why they play games, and keep score. Otherwise, we should just total up the stats at the end of the season to determine the winner, and ignore the score.

Re: this actual game, yes New Orleans did not play its best defense, but Seattle, and Hasselback, were gutsy, and made smart, big plays exploiting the way New Orleans was playing them. So I am not willing to say that the game result was because the Saints gave it away or were intimidated by crowd noise or whatever.

 

[Beerman]

I told all my friends that the Saints would lose and not just because of their many backs out on IR. Usually, if you score more than 30 points, you win. Yesterday my Saints scored more than 30 points with a beat up offense. It was the defense that lost the game and the reason I said they would lose. Sure, everyone is hurt this time of year but the Saints had no fire and the Seahawks did.
But, it doesn't matter because as I said before the game, neither the Saints nor the Seahawks will go further.......and if by chance they do, they won't make it to the SuperBowl.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Beerman, I rooted for the Saints last year. Thanks for returning the favor. I am not one to think that because the Seahawks won this one, that they are headed to the show. But a part of me holds out for that Cinderella story that comes out of Seattle once in a while (not always in football).

 

[R_of_G]

SVL, Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, and forgive me if that's the case, but it seems your contention amounts to seeding teams based on geography.

I just don't get this part...

A larger market team (shall I just say more eastern team) may likely have a better overall record when other divisions are weaker.

Of course a larger market team may have a better overall record. They also may not.

I don't see the implied correlation between geography/demographics and team performance, and I'd wager fans of the Dolphins or Redskins, two large market eastern teams, wouldn't see it either.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Hmm. Let me re-think this a bit before I respond. I cannot honestly say I am a fan of NFL football in general to have given it enough thought. As you can probably tell, I have mostly been a fan of my teams in big sports, rather than one who analyses the various teams and is super knowledgeable about things overall. I need to think a bit more about why I feel it is a good idea to leave things as is.

 

[R_of_G]

Steve, that is about the most reasonable response I've ever heard. :applause

Just to add in one more thing to consider talking about the NFL going forward into future seasons...

One of the major items the NFL and owners are demanding of the players in the new CBA is an 18 game schedule.

I've not heard any specific proposals on how it would work, ie. whether this would include adding more divisional games or simply just two more opponents to each schedule, but hypothetically, if the status quo of each team playing two games per season against each division opponent remains in place, this would mean a team could play 1/3 of its games in the division and have that as the predominant factor in playoff seeding.

It is then possible to have a 6-12 team host a playoff game against a 12-6 team if the 6-12 team won its division.

 

[Eric]

Congrats to R & G and SVL on their wins. :applause The Seahawks hung in there at the end and won. The Jets came through. The Colts actually scored too soon at the end and the Jets took advantage and won.

As to playing the Pats.....pray for a clear field and a minimum of 40 degrees. That's the only chance the Jets (or most any other team for that matter) have. The colder and whiter the field, the less chance you have.

Go IGGLES!!!! The Maalox is at the ready.

PBP, just as a friendly reminder, his screen name is 'R_of_G'. I figured you might want to know, since you've referred to him as 'R & G' a few times.

It's almost go time in Philly!

 

[piebaldpython]

PBP, just as a friendly reminder, his screen name is 'R_of_G'. I figured you might want to know, since you've referred to him as 'R & G' a few times.

It's almost go time in Philly!

OOPS!!! I stand corrected. Well, our IGGLES lost......but you have to expect it by the way they played for most of the game. The defense was bending and the offense was stuck in idle. So, it's a minor miracle that they were in a position to win the darn thing at the end. C'est la vie.

 

[pedalbuilder]

You guys mind if a new guy jumps in here?

I'm really looking forward to this weekend. Being in Pittsburgh, of course I want to see Baltimore beaten down, but it's a coin toss with these two teams this year and I'm one to think that having played a game this weekend may work in Baltimore's favor - they'll have a big head of steam now. Not that they need any extra motivation against the Steelers . . .

Otherwise I see it as New England over New York, Chicago over Seattle and Atlanta over Green Bay. What I'd really like is to see the Jets win . . . I just can't figure out how they will pull it off . . .

 

[NWBasser]

I'm still more than a bit perplexed that the Seahawks won. But happy nonetheless. I definitely enjoyed the game, but missed Lynch's big run when I took an ill-timed bathroom break.

I didn't think they'd beat the Rams, but did.

I was sure that they'd be embarassed on national TV against the Saints, but weren't.

I do agree that the Saints defense really put in a poor performance.

The 'hawks beat the Bears ealier in the season, but I remain skeptical that they can do it again. All I really hope for at this point is a good and close game to watch and enjoy.

The Jets D played really well. I liked what they did by not putting up a big pass rush, but hanging back and choking off the receivers. I think it was quite a good strategy against Manning and forced it into more a running game where they had an advantage. I definitely saw R of G's criticisms of Sanchez in action. Wow, what lousy passing.

I'm still something of a Jets fan going back to the days of Testaverde, Crebet, and Martin.:dude

Sorry for you Eagles fans. Akers must feel like total crap today too.

 

[R_of_G]

pedalbuilder - Don't mind a new guy jumping in at all. Welcome.

The Jets D played really well. I liked what they did by not putting up a big pass rush, but hanging back and choking off the receivers. I think it was quite a good strategy against Manning and forced it into more a running game where they had an advantage. I definitely saw R of G's criticisms of Sanchez in action. Wow, what lousy passing.

I'm still something of a Jets fan going back to the days of Testaverde, Crebet, and Martin.:dude

The Jets really have little choice but to play strong coverage schemes as opposed to relying heavily on a pass rush because this year, they have no pass rush to speak of. I am curious as to how it will work against New England who have many more weapons for Brady to target, as opposed to the Colts who had several of their key offensive guys out of the lineup.

One thing I will say, Darrelle Revis displayed exactly why I contended this past off-season that he was worth every penny he asked for. Reggie Wayne, who caught 111 passes this season, caught exactly one pass for a total of one yard in the game Saturday.

Revis' detractors like to point out that he doesn't have any interceptions this season. Hard to pick off a pass when opposing QBs don't throw the ball to your side of the field. It's the same way I look at pressures versus sacks. I don't care how many sacks my team has. I'm much more impressed by how many times they force a QB out of the pocket, or to make a bad decision.

How can the Jets win? Run. Run. Run. The most effective way to beat Tom Brady is to keep him off the field. LT looked well-rested and ready to roll. Shonn Greene seems to get fresher as the season gets further along. Schottenheimer needs to call at least as many runs as against Indy, if not more, and the offensive line needs to make it happen.

Seattle versus Chicago is an interesting matchup. One thing the Bears will do that the Saints didn't was play defense. Seattle will need Lynch to make things happen in the run game to set up opportunities in the passing attack, otherwise, Hasselbeck could be in for a very long day of getting up close and personal with Julius Peppers.

 

[Beerman]

The last 2 years all you heard about the Saints was their offense but truthfully, the D hasn't been that bad. Remember last year on national tv against New England, this year on Sunday night against Pittsburgh, then Monday night against Atanta? They had sparks but no fire.....they used up all their divine intervention last year.
Also, Jenkins was hurt and Roman Harper is crap and got severely burned. I still don't think the Seahawks have it in them to go further but they got further than us.
I'm still thinking Green Bay and New England but I'll say it again, it's the NFL and anything can and will happen.