Tonelab help, discussion, etc.

[Danzego]

This is kind of long, so please bear with me. Also, maybe if there are others around who, while not familiar with the Tonelab are tone doctors in general may have some suggestions.



I got my Tonelab delivered last Friday and have done some monkeying around with it since then. I've found a few tones that I really dig with the thing, but I could use a hand with the thing in general from someone with some more experience than I.

The problem I'm having is that aside from a few tones, for the most part, I'm having trouble with the distortion channels. The cleans on this thing are great. But whenever I use the distorted amps, I always end up with a muffled, muddy mess. Like, for instance, when I try to use a Plexi amp, it sounds like I have a cab stuffed with pillows and a blanket over it unless I crank use the bridge pickup on my Epi LP and crank the presence and treble controls (and, of course, back off the bass). However, when I do that, I get a lot of fizziness and even crackling/popping type stuff in the signal and have to back off of them again.

I switched to another pair of headphones, which helped a bit with the crackling sounds, but only because I don't hear them as much with those phones (not as responsive as my regular ones). Those headphones help with the definition with the higher gain amps like the Recto and US HighGain and even the other gainy amps, but it's because they're cheaper ones and make the tone thinner.

I even tried switching guitars, thinking maybe it was the Epi's pickups, since I've seen a lot of people say they don't care for them and, well, I have noticed that my LP kinda sounds the same on my Vox AD50VT;I need the treble cranked and the bass severely backed off to get a nice, clear distortion tone. However, my BC Rich Mockingbird and Ibanez Destroyer (both humbucker guitars, the former very hot and high output and the latter pretty standard) have the same sound issues- most of the distorted amps sound muffled or like crap.

As for the pedals, the OD pedals make the problem messier. Forget even using the fuzz pedal on the thing, as that makes it ten times worse unless I back the drive off the like 3 and below.

I did follow the manual on certain models, like the Plexi and got a usuable tone, but again, only if I have the treble and presence cranked and using my bridge pickup. Any deviance from what they suggest and it's back to sounding like complete crap.

So any suggestions and maybe some settings or things I should try out? Unfortunately, I have no single coil guitars, but then I don't think I should have to have that, anyway. The thing should still sound good and give a nice clear sound with neck and neck/bridge settings, I would think. It sure does for the clean sounds, that's for sure (if anything, bridge alone is TOO thin and trebly for cleans, while the bridge pickup really comes alive).

 

[SuperSwede]

Have you tried to set the LINE/AMP switch (on the backside) to line? The sound becomes very different in AMP mode because it adapts for use with a regular guitar amp, and LINE is for direct recording/headphone use.
But I really think that you have got a dodgy unit, I have never had any problems with my TL and it sounds nothing like what you describe.
Try the LINE/AMP switch first and let me know how it goes.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Have you tried to set the LINE/AMP switch (on the backside) to line? The sound becomes very different in AMP mode because it adapts for use with a regular guitar amp, and LINE is for direct recording/headphone use.
But I really think that you have got a dodgy unit, I have never had any problems with my TL and it sounds nothing like what you describe.
Try the LINE/AMP switch first and let me know how it goes.

The LINE/AMP switch is what I was going to suggest as well.
Mine doesn't sound like that either. I'll give mine a try with the switch on AMP & see what happens.


SS could it be a bad tube?

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I flipped the Tonelab to AMP (with headphones) on the Plexi (UK '68) model with the appropriate 4x12 cab model with neck humbucker & no other effects...instant blanket.

Danzego, If this isn't the case, check to make sure you don't have a pedal effect on with a weird setting.

 

[Danzego]

No, I already checked the Amp/Line setting; it was set to Line out of the box and I haven't touched it at all. I also have no pedals running on the Tonelab, nor am I using any on the floor.

Oh, and to correct an error I made in my first post, I said that for the cleans, the bridge pickup was thin and trebly (I prefer a nice, thick clean) and it's the NECK pickup that really comes alive. I don't even use the neck pickup when I'm playing on my AD50VT because it sounds too rubbery, but it sounds great with the Tonelab cleans.

One thing to wonder, though, as suggested- could it really be a bad tube? I would think that if it was, wouldn't the cleans sound nasty also? I get a real nice tubity tube sound on those cleans, like when using a Blackface 2X12 with either of the Blackface cabs, pulling the mids to give it a nice snap, and a slight chorus to give it some body. Maybe I just really suck at setting up distortions or something.

Mind posting any of your thicker distortion settings so I can give them a go, guys?

 

[SuperSwede]

Try this one, but I really think that there is something wrong with your tonelab.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Try this one, but I really think that there is something wrong with your tonelab.

I agree. When I had a bad tube I got an excess amount of hiss.


Some one should take a photo of something with this thread on the fret net

(with SS's photo of his Tonelab with the Fret Net in the background)

in the background and post it in this thread.

A nice mug of Cocoa anyone?

 

[Danzego]

Well, I just checked out your JCM900 tone, SuperSwede. Good stuff. I didn't realize the Tonelab was capable of a nice chunky sound like that.

I get a good lead and rhythm sound through my bridge pickup with your patch, though it does sound a bit fizzy on the low power chords (I don't know if that's your intention). However, switch it over to both pickups or the neck and it's back to the fuzzy, muddiness/covered by a blanket thing.

After hearing yours, I started going through the presets again and yeah....I'm thinking something can't be right somewhere in the equation. For instance, try going to Blizzard (patch 1-1) and run up and down low power chords, from E to A. For me, I get no definition when doing that. It's just like a big whoomph-whoomph-whoomph. Of course, that "wonderful" crackly distortion sound is there, too. I even kept switching between sets of headphones, from an ok set of JVC studio headphones I've been using for years (they have a pretty full response, if not lacking just a bit of definition) to a set of Sony's for the stereo and a regular pair of Sony walkman headphones. As before, you can still catch that crackle and the muffledness to varying degrees with each, but they all have it.

What type headphones do you use, SuperSwede, along with the guitar you make your patches with? Finally, do you have any pure rhythm patches that I can test out? Like something distorted that you get good definition with a rhythm pickup? I'm ALMOST convinced that it's the unit and I think if I give it one more go with another patch, I'll concede and start looking into sending it back to get a new one.

 

[Danzego]

btw, I chatted with a Guitar Center rep online, asking him if I could return it to the store, and I guess not; I have to ship it (he wouldn't tell me if I had to pay for shipping, though. I have to call them direct to talk to a Customer Service agent, blahblahblah). So I may look into that, but I won't be able to do that until I get back from work tonight. Kinda sucksthat I can't return it to the store, but even more if I would have to pay shipping because I got something that's not working right.

In the meantime, hopefully you can find time to get one more patch up there I can check out when I get home before calling them, Swede.

 

[SuperSwede]

I use my Schecter C1 Elite (Jazz & JB). I usually use that patch with the bridge humbucker, but I have no problem using it with the neck pickup either (but perhaps not power chords with the neck on that one).

Here is a another patch, this time a little brighter. This is a fav of mine that works fantastic with a neck single coil, and humbucker too.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I never save any patches, I just turn the amp dial to the model I want, select a cab & fiddle. I've gotta start saving these things. I'll give your patches a try SS.

Danzego: That's truly a bummer.

 

[SuperSwede]

I can post more patches for you Tot if you want.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

I can post more patches for you Tot if you want.

That'd be fantastic SS, but perhaps we should start a new thread.

That CRUNCH patch was very cool. The strange thing was that the lowest I could get the time on the Tube Tape Echo was in the 900's your patch says 283 ms. Did you do that with editor?

 

[Danzego]

The editor is probably an easier way to do it, but you can also do it manually. You just have to tap the delay tap button a couple times (in this case, relatively quick) and when you turn the time knob, it will be in the neighborhood of what you tapped. It can be a pain trying to play around getting your taps fast or slow enough, so you might just want to use the editor if you have low patience.

Anyway, I also liked that crunch patch quite a bit. Something with the gain rolled off that much didn't cause me as many problems like the crackling, but still, on the neck pickup or using both humbuckers, it still got pretty muffled if I was strumming bar chords between E and A. But it gave me an idea- to turn it up and go pretty clean, then do that same thing, to check if it's the headphones giving me the crackling and muffled problems or the unit itself.

I found that unless I had the gain and bass pulled way down on a low distortion patch like this crunch patch, I would always hear the problems. On higher distortion amps (anything Marshall on up) forget about it- there is nothing I can do to alleviate the problem; it's always muffled and dirty, as opposed to just a good ol' chunky distortion, no matter what I do. Clean patches still sound great as usual, even with the volume up and strumming hard on low chords, so it isn't the headphones overdriving or anything.

So I guess I'm going to return it. I called Guitar Center and they gave me a Return Authorization number and are emailing a prepaid FedEx label that I can just slap on the box and send it back (though I still have to cover insurance). Not bad.

Thanks for the help, guys. As soon as I get my new unit, I'll be hunting out a new patch thread if you guys decide to make one.

 

[SuperSwede]

Good luck Danzego, I hope that your next unit will be flawless. Tonelabs are sweet but yours seems to be a sour lemon.

 

[Blueswaite]

If you use alot of gain keep the VR at about 40 to 60. Good luck.