Trade Tang

[NWBasser]

Is this website offering cheap, clearly counterfeit Gibsons. I see their ads splashed around all over and I'm sure most of you have seen it too. I'm a bit astounded that Gibson hasn't issued a cease and desist order to them yet.

It appears as a very clear-cut case of copywrite infringement.

I wonder what's up?

 

[Katastrophe]

There are a ton of those sites out there, all advertising fakes from China.

If they were to take away all of the Gibby labels and fake serial numbers and use their own labels and serial numbers, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Apparently, some of the makers over there will build a guitar in the LP style, and will put whatever you want on the headstock.

Gibby has put on their website that they are trying to shut these folks down, but I don't know how copyrights and patents work internationally, or if Chinese law recognizes those in the first place.

 

[NWBasser]

Ugh, I can't believe that I misspelled copyright.:thwap

I must be going daft in my old age.

I didn't see anything on the Gibby site about this. I'd better look again.

Not that I'm a big Gibson fanboy or anything, but this sort of criminal action pisses me off. It seems they're doing PRS too.

 

[Katastrophe]

I didn't see anything on the Gibby site about this. I'd better look again.

Not that I'm a big Gibson fanboy or anything, but this sort of criminal action pisses me off. It seems they're doing PRS too.

There should be a section on detecting counterfeits on the Gibby website...

Take a look at the PRSs... They're pretty bad. And they're copying Fender, and Ibanez, too.

 

[Jx2]

I have to admit Im not really surprised. My biggest question is why they have noticable diffrence's and ways to tell the diffrence. I mean yea, fake serial numbers could be tracked down easily enough. But I find it hard to tell that these people cant make a dead cloned fake. After alot of these are coming from companys who either make low to mid end products for the big boys or has at one time. Im wondering if the little diffrence might not be how they havent been shut down yet or a cease or desist order issued. Ive heard and Im not saying Im 100% correct, that any patten can be copied as long as its at least 10% diffrent. Im not sure how correct this is....I say that because if your a active fresh water angler. You might of heard about Rennovation Creation suing Strike King over Strike Kings verision of the Beaver, slight changes where made, however the law suit said SK's name Rodent was to similar to the Beaver. Another one similar is there is a reason you can only find 1 maker of the 5" Senko...Gary Yamamoto. He has a patten on the size of the Senko and the name of course. Thats why companies make anything from 4 1/2" or 5+". One reason I know these is for a time I was pouring my own soft baits, and a friend of mine received a ceased order by RI, to stop selling hand poured beavers on ebay. I bought his mold but Im never sold baits. So maybe, the errors in lettering and the displacement of the knobs have a little to do with why they are so fluenent along with the international laws. Or maybe Gibson is looking to take em all down at one time. After all there is a solid size list of "law suit" Les Pauls from the years past.

 

[otaypanky]

Hey if the girls can buy fake b**bs the boys should be able to buy fake Fenders, no?

I think I saw some info posted by Gibson about how to get a clue if a guitar is a fake. 'Not sure if I saw it on their website or in their forums.

 

[syo]

Is this website offering cheap, clearly counterfeit Gibsons. I see their ads splashed around all over and I'm sure most of you have seen it too. I'm a bit astounded that Gibson hasn't issued a cease and desist order to them yet.

It appears as a very clear-cut case of copywrite infringement.

I wonder what's up?

Alot of these "companies" do not have traceable addresses. Also, any "cease and desist" for trademark infringement is only enforceable by the will of of the People's (China's) government. For some reason the Chinese authorities don't allow the Gibson Police Force to go knocking on people's doors. :spank Trademark protection is not much of a priority for the government. They sometimes make a high profile bust of some piracy operation but this is usually to placate a visiting trade mission.

Can't blame the authorities too much for not doing more. Piracy is ubiquitous in China. Right now, to do much about it is nearly impossible.

I have to admit Im not really surprised. My biggest question is why they have noticable diffrence's and ways to tell the diffrence. I mean yea, fake serial numbers could be tracked down easily enough. But I find it hard to tell that these people cant make a dead cloned fake. After alot of these are coming from companys who either make low to mid end products for the big boys or has at one time. Im wondering if the little diffrence might not be how they havent been shut down yet or a cease or desist order issued.

It is very unlikely that the poorly copied copies are coming from the same factories that make (or made) guitars for the big boys. The really bad copies are usually made for the local market but sometimes also find their way west.

 

[NWBasser]

I would think that the General Agreement of Trade and Tariffs (GATT) would have some provisions to protect intellectual property and trademarks. Maybe not a cease and desist, but a lawsuit for damages?

If the shipments could be tracked and intercepted at port, that might help. Have a great guitar bonfire!

 

[bcdon]

I was browsing that Trade Tang site, unbelievable. I think Gibson's best bet would be to put heat on their internet service provider, at least they wouldn't be able to sale online until they started somewhere else. Other than that, I don't see how they can end the forgeries.

In the meantime, I ordered a Jimmy Page Custom LP, a Slash Custom, and a Zakk Wylde Custom all for under $1000 total. Seriously though, I hate to think of these hitting Craigslist and how hard it might be to distinguish them from the real thing.

 

[Katastrophe]

They're all over ebay already. Just look for the insanely cheap price, and the seller's shipping info. If it's coming from China, it's a fake.

Once you go learn the details that the counterfeiters get wrong, it's pretty easy to spot a fake. They are getting better, though, and fakes are harder to spot. If I were to buy an Epi or Gibby these days, it would have to be new, and from a major retailer, like MF. No telling what you might get otherwise.

 

[sumitomo]

So I had to look at that website (TradeTang) and if those are pics of their finished work,makes one think Wow wonder if they gave them some good materials and some more assy time.Sumi

 

[syo]

This is amazing...
After reading this post, I went to the Trade Tang site to check it out. Typed "Gibson Guitars". Now, almost every site I go to I get served TradeTang "Top 7 Guitars" banner ads from Google. Don't they get charged everytime a banner is clicked? Perhaps a mass clicking campaign would do more to stop them than any legal action.

Seriously though, TradeTang is now my constant companion. Time to fire up the old CC (Crap Cleaner). Best shareware ever...

 

[Jx2]

Ive been following this thread fairly close. I have to ask has anyone played or seen one of these in person? If they play good, and are of at least say epiphone quality made Gibson could try to figure out a way to use these for the good of the company. Im not sure how this would work out, but lets just say Gibson was able to make a Slash model and sell them to use for say $400-$600 would you buy it? And instead of changing the name on the headstock leave it as is. It works for Fender, just look at the MIM models, the headstock says Fender plain and simple. Im sure if anything not made in the USA said Squier those MIM models wouldnt sell quiet as well. I know that would put ???? around the Epiphone line. Because honestly it would take alot of sales away from their Les Paul and SG line. But overall its something I think would help the company in the long run. I think the $400-$600 price tag on those models would be a good price point with standard models in the $300-$400 range. If you look at what the fakes are selling for, then add the money to compinsate Gibson. Wouldnt it be a win-win-win?

 

[ZMAN]

Last year I posted about this guitar. My friend owned a pawn shop and was fooled by this one. He took it in trade and gave back a cheap Squier, and a small amp. Worth about 250 dollars. He thought he made a steal. I went to look at it and found it was a fake. The obvious one was no battery for the "EMG" pickups. They were just covers over normal HBS.
He had a set of real EMGs installed and he loves it. He kept it at home.

 

[sumitomo]

Zman did you ever get to play that guitar?Sumi

 

[Ch0jin]

Just a couple of things..

Trade Tang is a B2B site acting as a portal to many "wholesalers". Telling them to stop selling fakes is a little like telling ebay to stop selling fakes. Right idea, wrong target.

I've done some reading from people who bought guitars from there and so far it's unanimously bad. Mostly though, the buyers got what they deserve imo. Who buys a gold top Les Paul for $300 and then cries "FAKE" when they receive a fifth rate copy. If you'd done a minutes research or used some common sense you wouldn't be so disappointed.

There are numerous bad reviews on jewelery and clothing purchased through that site too but they all read pretty much the same.

"I ordered a fake xyz and OMG SCAMMERS WARNING, they sent me a fake xyz" Dumba**

The other issue is the returns policy. Most people also complain that the return process is very difficult and often they will only offer to return a small fraction of the price charged.

 

[Geraint Jones]

This subject has been touched upon a few time on here ,I remember looking into buying an Epiphone on Ebay and I reckon about 60% were fakes . Apart from the obvious pick guard screw position and binding, a lot of them certainly looked the part .
Caveat Emptor chaps .

 

[ZMAN]

Zman did you ever get to play that guitar?Sumi

I played it when it still had the fake EMGs in it. It was dead and sounded like crap. The neck was large and cumbersome. It is something you could hang on a wall for decoration, in a music shop or restaurant with a rock n roll theme, but not a player in any form.

 

[sumitomo]

Thanks Zman!! That's what we need to know,look's are deceving.Sumi

 

[Perfect Stranger]

The question begs to be asked, IF the guitars are SO good that they cannot be
differentiated from the actual big name guitars.....then what difference does it
make to the final player of the guitar? Does one play the headstock...or the
guitar?

 

[ZMAN]

The question begs to be asked, IF the guitars are SO good that they cannot be
differentiated from the actual big name guitars.....then what difference does it
make to the final player of the guitar? Does one play the headstock...or the
guitar?

The guitars "look" like the real thing. They do not "feel" or play like the real thing. To a person who doesn't have a lot of experience with the real thing, the looks can fool them. That is the market they are catering to. I would think a person who has owned higher end guitars would know that you get what you pay for, and would not buy one.
In my friends case he was a little skeptical, about the authenticity and did not give more than what a used Epi would bring. He traded the seller goods at that level, all at retail pawn prices. Being a Zak Wylde, unless you knew all the nuances of that guitar it looked good. But after a good comparison to a real one it was wayyyy off. When you plugged it in and played it, it was like the actual "log" that Les Paul first made.

 

[FrankenFretter]

I think a lot of this was covered in this thread a few months ago.

On another forum that I...um...visit sometimes, a couple of the forumites claim to have ordered and recieved guitars from Trade Tang (which vendor at TT wasn't specified) that are of fairly good quality. One of the claimants just joined and it was his/her first post, so that's somewhat suspicious, but there was another member that had been around for a couple years that claims he has real Gibsons, but the knock-off has become his go-to guitar. Nobody has posted pics yet, so I take it all with a freaking huge grain of salt. Still, it is intriguing. I don't suppose we have any Fretters who have purchased guitars through one of the Chinese counterfeiter sites, and are willing to come out and give an honest review with pics? That would be very interesting to me. Not that I'm at all interested in buying one, but I have a strong sense of curiosity.

 

[NWBasser]

I think a lot of this was covered in this thread a few months ago.

On another forum that I...um...visit sometimes, a couple of the forumites claim to have ordered and recieved guitars from Trade Tang (which vendor at TT wasn't specified) that are of fairly good quality. One of the claimants just joined and it was his/her first post, so that's somewhat suspicious, but there was another member that had been around for a couple years that claims he has real Gibsons, but the knock-off has become his go-to guitar. Nobody has posted pics yet, so I take it all with a freaking huge grain of salt. Still, it is intriguing. I don't suppose we have any Fretters who have purchased guitars through one of the Chinese counterfeiter sites, and are willing to come out and give an honest review with pics? That would be very interesting to me. Not that I'm at all interested in buying one, but I have a strong sense of curiosity.

IMO, purchasing one of these counterfeits is a morally questionable thing to do. Apparently, nobody has any qualms about putting American workers out of a job or unsuspecting second-hand buyers getting ripped off. Imagine a kid saving all his lawn mowing money for years to get the Gibson, Fender, PRS of his dreams and ends up with one of these fakes. He's out of his hard-earned money for a poor-quality guitar that he can't sell for anywhere near his purchase price and is nearly unplayable for him to learn on.

Or, how about the hard-working skilled craftsmen and women in Corona and Nashville doing their best to build a high-quality instruments that will provide a lifetime of enjoyment to an aspiring musician only to find themselves in the unemployment line because their company went under. You don't have to cut too far into a company's bottom line for it to fail.

 

[Eric]

IMO, purchasing one of these counterfeits is a morally questionable thing to do. Apparently, nobody has any qualms about putting American workers out of a job or unsuspecting second-hand buyers getting ripped off. Imagine a kid saving all his lawn mowing money for years to get the Gibson, Fender, PRS of his dreams and ends up with one of these fakes. He's out of his hard-earned money for a poor-quality guitar that he can't sell for anywhere near his purchase price and is nearly unplayable for him to learn on.

Or, how about the hard-working skilled craftsmen and women in Corona and Nashville doing their best to build a high-quality instruments that will provide a lifetime of enjoyment to an aspiring musician only to find themselves in the unemployment line because their company went under. You don't have to cut too far into a company's bottom line for it to fail.

Well, this could descend into politics quickly, but I guess I'd just say buyer beware. There's enough brand worshiping out there that if fakes make people question the actual quality, sound, and playability of a guitar instead of just staring at the headstock, that at least hints at a potential benefit.

It might be good to police the world, but it's not practical. At some point the accountability has to fall on the individual.

 

[NWBasser]

Well, this could descend into politics quickly, but I guess I'd just say buyer beware. There's enough brand worshiping out there that if fakes make people question the actual quality, sound, and playability of a guitar instead of just staring at the headstock, that at least hints at a potential benefit.

It might be good to police the world, but it's not practical. At some point the accountability has to fall on the individual.

Eric, I agree completely that it's a matter of individual accountability. I also think that it's a poor decision for the individual buyer to purchase one of these for reasons outlined earlier.

IMO, it's little different from knowingly buying a stolen guitar. In this case, it's the brand name that's stolen.

 

[Eric]

Eric, I agree completely that it's a matter of individual accountability. I also think that it's a poor decision for the individual buyer to purchase one of these for reasons outlined earlier.

IMO, it's little different from knowingly buying a stolen guitar. In this case, it's the brand name that's stolen.

True, and I think I know what you're getting at and I do agree with it.

 

[bcdon]

IMO, it's little different from knowingly buying a stolen guitar. In this case, it's the brand name that's stolen.

Just playing advocatus diaboli here, but what about people who buy fake Rolexs? Or knock off handbags? Hell, what about fake ****s?

 

[bcdon]

And while you are mulling over the fake ****s, how about fake strings? WTF?

http://daddarioinc.blogspot.com/2010/09/play-real-beware-of-counterfeit.html

 

[FrankenFretter]

And while you are mulling over the fake ****s, how about fake strings? WTF?

http://daddarioinc.blogspot.com/2010/09/play-real-beware-of-counterfeit.html

Wow, that seems like a retarded move. Seriously, do they really expect to make a bunch of money counterfeiting strings?

 

[NWBasser]

Just playing advocatus diaboli here, but what about people who buy fake Rolexs? Or knock off handbags? Hell, what about fake ****s?

No different for #1 and #2, the established brand-name is being stolen. It's simply theft.

As for #3, how do you know they're fake?oke

Also, for #3 the only ones out money are either the chick or her SO, and in both cases it could be argued that there's a good return on the "investment."