Gibson . . . Grrrrr

[marnold]

Man, Gibson seems to want to tick me off. I assume that you have seen that Gibson is suing Activision over Guitar Hero and now also Harmonix over Rock Band, saying the products violate their patents. Because Guitar Hero has a Les Paul-shaped guitar? Nope, Activision paid for the right to do that. Here's News.com's summary of the patent:

A copy of Gibson's patent included in the court filing showed a method for simulating a live performance using a musical instrument, a 3D headset with stereo speakers, and a prerecorded concert.

"Based on our preliminary analysis, the Guitar Hero software (including any expansion packs) and the guitar controller provided by Activision being used as a musical instrument (packaged with the software or sold standalone) are covered by the...patent," Gibson's law firm said in its January 7 letter. "Gibson requests that Activision obtain a license under Gibson's...patent or halt sales of any version of the Guitar Hero game software."

They are also suing retailers, including Wal-Mart, for carrying those products. Without reading the patent (or knowing what Gibson product this is supposed to cover), it seems vague enough that it could even cover tab books that include a backing track. The question is, if they KNEW that this product was out there since they took Activision's money for the Les Paul controller, why did they wait three years to file the suit? Can you say "Money grab"? I knew you could!

As if it's not bad enough that they basically make it impossible for smallish retailers to carry their products, their QC has become questionable, and their prices just keep going up, they pull a stunt like this.

You know, I really wouldn't mind having a Les Paul, but if I would ever get one I'd look to an Agile or ESP knock-off first. Not because they are inherently better, but because I'm sick of Gibson's corporate crap. I won't support that with my $$.

 

[Spudman]

Ditto.

 

[just strum]

Gibson has a history of doing this and the success of the LP has caused all kinds of copies. Sometimes their lawsuits are successful and other times not. I think they get carried away at times because in a way they are suing the very thing that is free promotion for them.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how protective I would be if I had that product.

 

[Kodiak3D]

Gibson should be ashamed of themselves. Guitar Hero is not only introducing kids to some decent music again, but it's also getting several of them interested in learning how to play the guitar which would translate to increased sales of guitars...several of which may be Gibson or Epiphone.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't think I'm going to have to do with Gibson in the future, either.

 

[wingsdad]

I swore off Gibson 30 years ago for this attitude, when they sued Ibanez over the Les Paul 'copy'. If the Ibanez LP's had sucked, they would have left it alone, but they were so good, they hurt Gibson's LP sales.

Their annually upping the ante for independents to keep a franchise is a travesty. One local store here just lost their Epiphone franchise after more than 10 yers with it because he 'only' sold $80K in product last year. My favorite local store owner told me that at Winter NAMM, Gibson was only allowing merchants into their booth if they were current dealers, or had a set appointment via a sales rep.

Their 'exclusively available' deals with Guitar Center and Musician's Friend (isn't the ES-339 such a deal?) are one of the reasons I despise those outfits, too.

However, I'm OK with buying a 'previously owned' Gibson or Epiphone (as long as it's not made in the Gibson China factory) because Gibson gets no money from a resale. But I'd never buy new.

 

[just strum]

Gibson should be ashamed of themselves. Guitar Hero is not only introducing kids to some decent music again, but it's also getting several of them interested in learning how to play the guitar which would translate to increased sales of guitars...several of which may be Gibson or Epiphone.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't think I'm going to have to do with Gibson in the future, either.

Yep, that's what I am referring to when I mention free promotion. Kids get interested in music, see instruments that resemble LP's, tell mom and dad they want an LP. Kid loses interest in music, LP goes on e-bay or garage sale and we fretters get a sweet deal. It's the food chain.

Oh, it works for Strats too.

 

[warren0728]

However, I'm OK with buying a 'previously owned' Gibson or Epiphone (as long as it's not made in the Gibson China factory) because Gibson gets no money from a resale. But I'd never buy new.

+1000....that's how i feel too! :AOK:

ww

 

[Kodiak3D]

Interesting, Wingsdad. That must be why there's only one local shop here in Louisville that I can think of that carries Epiphone.

Down with Gibson!!

 

[Justaguyin_nc]

A copy of the patent is included in Gibson's lawsuit and dated Nov. 23, 1999. It describes a device that lets a user “simulate participation in a concert by playing a musical instrument and wearing a head-mounted 3-D display that includes stereo speakers.”
The device also includes playback of audio and video of a prerecorded concert and a separate track of audio from the user's instrument.

“Guitar Hero” users perform songs using a stringless, plastic guitar that plugs into a game console. A TV connected to the gaming console displays animated musicians playing along and graphics that guide users' play.

I don't see how either relates...
I wouldn't buy a Gibson anyways.. I can't afford the darn things..
they out priced the average user...

On a side note: Guitar hero is under $100.. RockBand under 200..
and they both ROCK! get them before your next Gibson

 

[wingsdad]

Interesting, Wingsdad. That must be why there's only one local shop here in Louisville that I can think of that carries Epiphone

Yep. A couple of years ago, they told me they had to up their annual Epiphoneinventory buy to $100K to keep the franchise, and that was the minimum per product line to have a Gibson franchise. In other words, $100K in Gibson Electrics got you that, to carry Gibson Montana Acoustics, $100K there, and $100K of OMI product if you wanted to deal Mandos, Banjos and Dobros (there's another Gibson Lawsuit...you can't call a resonator a dobro, because they own the name Dobro).

So, ain't no shopping for any new Gibson products around here, with 3 mom & pops and GC/Sam Ash a minimum 2-hour round-trip drive away.

I get to see lots of used stuff though at the one indy that deals in buy/trades. Gets Epis bought at that GC very often, that get traded in or sold to buy Ibanez, Washburn, Schecter, or, his top-o-line, and my fave, G&L.

Full MSRP's on (American) G&L's, even custom-ordered with options, are less than what a Gibby LP goes for at MF or GC Sale price. You can fully load up a G&L and hit about $3G's in MSRP. Their imported equivalent to Epiphone, Tribute, are well below 1/2 that MSRP price line, though...right about in line with Epi, even less.

 

[player]

This thread reminds me of retail outlets like Guitar Center that are big,as such they think they can(and they do) charge a higher premium on items that can be had for a smaller fee.True Gibby has done nothing to make me want to even investigate their wares.I do remember when they were top shelf too.

to say or even hint Guitar Hero is hurting them sounds like the sheep that cried wolf,it would not surprise me if lawsuits are the only way they think they(Gibson) can recoup from poor quarterly sales.if as suggested Guitar hero did ask and get rights first I'm not sure they even have a leg to stand on to win such a silly suit but guess they have a battery of lawyers for a reason.i.e.to make something out of nothing.Speaking of Gibson anyone hear they have a new Robot guitar now being pushed? an SG in addition to the LP they had before that went over big too(as in Led balloon). although it did sell out pre ordered in less than two days they had some big time issues with them.talk about undermining the name and products,suspect they did just that.

 

[bigoldron]

Speaking of Gibson anyone hear they have a new Robot guitar now being pushed? an SG in addition to the LP they had before that went over big too(as in Led balloon). although it did sell out pre ordered in less than two days they had some big time issues with them.talk about undermining the name and products,suspect they did just that.

From the review done in GP, I certainly don't have a burning desire to go out and buy one. Apparently, Gibson has done all their homework. :whatever:

And for anybody looking for a reasonable alternative to the paul, check out the Washburn Idol series (66 and up). Even the imports are really good guitars and they're a whole lot cheaper than that LP at Musician's Friend. :AOK:

 

[Kodiak3D]

Hey! Don't count out the Idol 64's! The DL's are great, and the vintage finished 64's are also very nice.

As for the Robots, I knew they'd have some problems with them. Sounds like a great idea, but I knew the execution would be difficult.

 

[bigoldron]

Hey! Don't count out the Idol 64's! The DL's are great, and the vintage finished 64's are also very nice.

Don't worry, I wouldn't do that. I LOVE my 64DL. It's just that to me, the 64's are geared more toward competing with the SG than the LP. The bigger boys are almost DIRECTLY aimed at the LP fans, delivering a great product at an even better price. The Pilsen or 70 or even a 68 is on my "one day" list. :rockon:

 

[Kodiak3D]

Don't worry, I wouldn't do that. I LOVE my 64DL. It's just that to me, the 64's are geared more toward competing with the SG than the LP. The bigger boys are almost DIRECTLY aimed at the LP fans, delivering a great product at an even better price. The Pilsen or 70 or even a 68 is on my "one day" list. :rockon:

That makes sense, and like I said in the other thread, the Pilsen is definitely on my want list.

 

[mechanic]

Maybe having to pay all of those lawyers to file these types of lawsuits has something to do with Gibson's guitar prices?
Just a thought.
Eric

 

[wingsdad]

Maybe having to pay all of those lawyers to file these types of lawsuits has something to do with Gibson's guitar prices?
Just a thought.

That, and a piece of their marketing budget is built into every guitar.

You pay about 25% for the wood & steel, 5% for Quality control and 70% for the lawyers, martinis lunches, artist endorsements, rights, etc, etc.

OK...maybe that's a bit strong.:whatever: