Modes

[FLHX]

I'm just starting to practice my modes. If I am playing B dorian, I know I should start on B, my question is should I stop on B at the 7th fret or continue the scale to D on the 10th fret?

 

[Robert]

Well, you don't have to stop until the fretboard runs out. I must not be understanding your question?

Maybe this might help? http://www.dolphinstreet.com/blog/learning-scales-modes.php

 

[FLHX]

Sorry, I'll try and explain it better. When playing the "A" major scale in one position on the fifth fret. I start on A on the low E string and finish on A on the high E string. Correct me if I'm wrong, moving one position up to the 7th fret would be the dorian mode. Starting on B of the low E string and playing the scale I stop at B on the high E string.

------------------------------7------------
-----------------------7-9-10--------------
-----------------6-7-9---------------------
-----------6-7-9---------------------------
-------7-9---------------------------------
7-9-10-------------------------------------

I hope this explains it better.

 

[Robert]

I still don't understand your question. I'm a bit dense at times.

However, Dorian is easy. If you play the A major scale (anywhere on the neck), you are in fact playing the B Dorian mode if you start and end on the note B.

Hope that helps.

 

[thearabianmage]

Sorry, I'll try and explain it better. When playing the "A" major scale in one position on the fifth fret. I start on A on the low E string and finish on A on the high E string. Correct me if I'm wrong, moving one position up to the 7th fret would be the dorian mode. Starting on B of the low E string and playing the scale I stop at B on the high E string.

------------------------------7------------
-----------------------7-9-10--------------
-----------------6-7-9---------------------
-----------6-7-9---------------------------
-------7-9---------------------------------
7-9-10-------------------------------------

I hope this explains it better.

You got it! :AOK:

Now do that with all seven positions of the major scale and you'll be on your way!

 

[marnold]

You've got the idea right, but you don't have to "stop" anywhere. As long as you return to B enough (and/or play over a chord progression in B) it will sound Dorian. If you hang around A a lot it will get a major tonality. That's a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist.

 

[Eric]

You've got the idea right, but you don't have to "stop" anywhere. As long as you return to B enough (and/or play over a chord progression in B) it will sound Dorian. If you hang around A a lot it will get a major tonality. That's a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist.

OK, so this is the part that's never clicked with me on modes. Just warning, I'm going to quasi-hijack this thread.

If I'm playing in C and I want someone to play a mixolydian solo, would they play it in C mixolydian (based on F major scale) or G mixolydian (based on C major scale).

Slightly different question: if I want to play in C mixolydian, what are my chords? Do they start with a C7 then go to F and Gm, or do I just play a regular C major chord progression?

 

[marnold]

If I'm playing in C and I want someone to play a mixolydian solo, would they play it in C mixolydian (based on F major scale) or G mixolydian (based on C major scale).

If you want it to sound mixolydian, play C mixolydian. If you play G mixolydian it will sound like C major.

Slightly different question: if I want to play in C mixolydian, what are my chords? Do they start with a C7 then go to F and Gm, or do I just play a regular C major chord progression?

I'm not particularly good at chord construction from a scale, but I would imagine that any C major progression would sound fine, since the mixolydian is just the major with a flat 7th. A chord with a B in it might sound a bit wonky if you happen to hit the flat 7th over it.

 

[Robert]

Slightly different question: if I want to play in C mixolydian, what are my chords? Do they start with a C7 then go to F and Gm, or do I just play a regular C major chord progression?

The chords would be diatonic chords based on F major -

F, Gm, Am, Bb, C, Dm, Em7b5.

Playing C Mixolydian means playing the same notes as in the F major scale.

 

[Eric]

The chords would be diatonic chords based on F major -

F, Gm, Am, Bb, C, Dm, Em7b5.

Playing C Mixolydian means playing the same notes as in the F major scale.

I think you and Marnold are saying contrasting things. Can you look at his comment and see if you agree with it?

 

[Robert]

I'm not particularly good at chord construction from a scale, but I would imagine that any C major progression would sound fine, since the mixolydian is just the major with a flat 7th. A chord with a B in it might sound a bit wonky if you happen to hit the flat 7th over it.

Uhh, any C major progression won't work. C Mixolydian means C7, which belongs to the key of F - see my response above.

 

[Eric]

Uhh, any C major progression won't work. C Mixolydian means C7, which belongs to the key of F - see my response above.

OK, bam -- that's right where my question always was.

So you always always always stay in the key of the major scale when messing with modes, yes? Like for G dorian, your chords will still always be based around a F major chord progression, right?

So then the question to go on top of that is...why the heck would it (say, G dorian) sound any different than playing F ionian? Do the start and end notes really make that much of a difference? Isn't it just phrasing?

 

[Robert]

So then the question to go on top of that is...why the heck would it (say, G dorian) sound any different than playing F ionian? Do the start and end notes really make that much of a difference? Isn't it just phrasing?

Right on. You can call it whichever - still the exact same notes. However, in G Dorian, you would probably emphasize the G note, so if you are playing over an F chord, the G note isn't a great note to emphasize, so you probably pick F or A perhaps. Hope that makes sense.

Still, all the 7 notes are exactly the same, so you can think of it in either way. I personally often think "I'm playing G dorian over C7" - but I am emphasizing the chord tones in the C7 chord.

 

[vroomery]

The biggest reason they are called different modes is that they are used in a context other than Ionian. (unless of course you are playing in ionian) This doesn't matter a ton in solo use without comping, but when there is a progression behind you it makes a big difference.

 

[@nthony]

Thanks for the OP for creatign this thread. This has just sorted me out from a headache I was having!

 

[kiteman]

If you treat your chords as shapes you'll have a better understanding of modes because they are inherent to the shapes. The CAGED system is a good way to show it, you have 5 major shapes to play one chord. Each shapes has the mode(s) embedded in it as well as the diatonics (of the mode).

When that chord is played you established the mode using that shape. The triad will show you where your chord tones are plus the tones that embellished the triad such as b7 and #4 (Mixolydian and Lydian ).

You'll have 5 minor shapes just by flatting the 3rds. They share the same 5 patterns but with a different root point.

EDIT: About phrasing you can start and end on the chord tones and that includes the flavors of the modes.