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Muhammed Suiçmez

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Ro3b said:
Finger-lickin' death metal goodness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA67UNstFWM

(The video has been flagged as inappropriate, but there's nothing objectionable about it that I can tell, unless you object to the genre as a whole.)
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Yes, the entire genre is objectable!
I just dont understand why anybodyd post a link to that???
"Goodness"?

Yall get some diverse music link posts here at the Fret.
 
n05511b1.jpg


The vocalist needs to take two cups of this and call a doctor asap in the morning.
 
Ro3b said:
Different strokes. I myself am deeply offended by REO Speedwagon. :p
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Ok Robert ban me if you must, or delete my post if Im outta line here the following is my opinion like it or not.

While you may not like REO Speedwagon and Im not a huge fan of theirs either. They can at least carry a tune and have some musical and melodic structure to their music. The group you linked to however for one has no vocal ability whatsoever. In our society of "you cant be judgemental" bullcarp. Controlled burping and vomiting and the ability to string 800 distorted notes per minute is not by any stretch musical even if it has some souls thinking it is good. That video is pure unadulterated noise.

You may not like REO or whoever, fine but their work is in no way offensive just not to your taste. Where the group you find tasteful has to use a title relating to the eating of dead bodies probably for the shock value. This is to make up for the offensive din and noise they propagate on stage as well as a total lack of talent. Yea I know they can string notes together so thats music......there is no excuse for what that guy calls singing. For that matter I have yet to see any "Death Metal" that is nothing more than people making noise and passing it off as music.

You listen to what you like and Ill do the same. But if you put up bilge and tell me it great and its crap Ill speak my mind as well. That was crap!
 
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Whoa. Easy there, man. You know the crack about REO was a joke, right? That's what the :p was for.

I'll gladly take down the link if you all find it offensive.
 
Well I think every band is crap. Top that!

Seriously, it does take ability and some kind of talent to play death metal. I can't do it, nor do I want to. I find it too tiring to listen to and YOU CAN'T SING ALONG.

While we all have a varied taste in music I'll go out on a limb here and say that the majority of thefret won't find this music very compelling.

However, what is compelling is the way they play what they do. Maybe that can be brought to the front so that it is understandable. It's really hard to distinguish parts in this kind of music or to understand the interplay between musicians, if any.
 
Before a reply, I went back and re-read SunvalleyLaw's MLK Day post. I think it can answer a lot of questions about the value of genre's such as death metal, especially Spudman's comments, which led to more discussion.
The state of the planet is such today that positive encouragement and making changes that help, rather than hurt, are paramount.
I don't like death metal, snuff movies, war, or any other endeavor that seeks to bring violence, torture, etc., to public awareness and glorify it in any way.
We can all agree to disagree on certain subjects, but I refuse to give any type of "artistic license" to such crap, just as I would not to film, photography, or any other genre that promotes death, destruction, or violence as entertainment. I find it sad that so many young people today see it as "cool", and I believe that years from now, sitting by a fire with children or grandchildren at their feet, they may view this garbage differently.
There's my two cents worth.
OOoops, I see an edit is in order..
I am not attacking anyone in regards to this, I do not mean to imply that censorship is in order,if it's out there, you have the choice to indulge, I do believe one's mind is somewhat akin to a diary, however, what you put in it is what you will remember years from now when you go back and reminisce. Nor do I wish to offend anyone by my opinions, I merely wished to particitpate in this lively discussion.:D
 
Robert said:
The title means someone who practices the eating of corpses.
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Hence the finger-licking death metal reference. :eek:

Ro3b said:
Whoa. Easy there, man. You know the crack about REO was a joke, right? That's what the :p was for.

I'll gladly take down the link if you all find it offensive.
Click to expand...

Leave it up.
 
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Wow. I had to register just to watch this one. For us oldies, remember way back when.....
Part of IT was that the music was way cool, part of IT was the rebellion and shock value of it all. I remember when I scored a "black box" to hack into the then new pay channels just to watch Alice Cooper. My folks, including my dad who was a life long musician and jazz accordionist (yes they exist), pretty much lost it right there. They felt the same way about most of the music I listened to and played then, but now that same stuff is (like Zeplin) is featured in Cadillac commercials. I doubt there are many head bangers in the Cadillac demographic.
All I'm trying to say is, music encompasses so much more than music. It's a statement, a belief, a feeling, goosebumps and so much more. THAT is what makes it individual and universal at the same time.
I HATE this stuff and cannot get into it. But like disco or you name it, it requires technique to play, has a following, and must have something or it wouldn't exist. I doubt this will ever find it's way into a Lexus commercial, but I guess you never know.
Now grasshopper, pluck this pebble from my palm. What the hell am I talking about........
 
Oldguy's points are very well taken. However.

I'd argue that the existential horror of life sometimes demands a response from art that's not pretty. A work of art is no less valid if what it expresses is pain and awfulness and despair. Thinking about Otto Dix's paintings of maimed WWI verterans, the blinding of Glocester in King Lear, the Sex Pistols, NWA, Guernica. Hendrix's "Star Spangled Banner" -- as guitar players we focus so much on his tone and execution that we can forget what an incredibly subversive and disturbing performance it was at the time.

In Tropic of Cancer, Henry Miller wrote, "This is not a book. This is libel, slander, defamation of character ... this is a prolonged insult, a gob of spit in the face of Art, a kick in the pants to God, Man, Destiny, Time, Love, Beauty, what you will."

So -- death metal. Everything about it is confrontational and frightening. It's incredibly difficult to play, the songs are often structured in a byzantine (if not impenetrable) fashion, everything you ever knew about chords and harmonization has been tossed out in favor of rampant chromaticism, and the lyrics might be totally nightmarish if they were intelligible. It's not nice music. It screams in the face of conformity. It's wonderful stuff to bother parents who are pressuring you to do well in school so you can get into a good college and grow up to be a polite hard-working contributor to society. If it alarms you, it's done its job. Charles Ives would tell you to sit down and take your dissonance like a man.

Big Rob: THANK YOU for the Rigor Mortis links. I hadn't heard them before. Awesome stuff.
 
good god it's cool getting old...;) I can remember Listening to Black Sabbath, Deep Purple , Alice Cooper... and the old people thought MY GAWD what is that Sheeeet.....it does not have a beat nor can you understand a word...

I was impressed with the playing... but I am easily impressed with any talent on guitar... heck, I still can't play a whole song without looking.. and hardly can play a whole song looking!

Titles are shock..and needed..some more shocking than others.. heck was there not people eating heads off live chickens and snakes in our days? lol

The Kids rock...
 
After reflection I realize I'm being a hypocite in a way...I enjoy "TIM-MY!" quite a bit on Southpark, a good band w/ little talent. I don't feel it's appropriate for little children, though!:eek:
:D :R :DR
 
Ro3b said:
. . . the existential horror of life sometimes demands a response from art that's not pretty. A work of art is no less valid if what it expresses is pain and awfulness and despair. . .
Click to expand...
Is this machine gun fire I'm hearing in Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood? Why yes . . . it is. Music to my ears.

Ro3b makes a great point about the visual / musical subjectivity of death metal. Most people are automatically geared to shut themsevles off to it. However, we should not forget that humankind has been forged through many of poignant, often times underlying themes that this style of music harbors in its genre. All things considered - the simple fact that it invoked people into taking a stance against it automatically gives its musical message both shape and form.

In its defense, I can honestly say that this video has already provided me with substantially more musical satisfaction than every single episode of American Idol combined. The aesthetic of raw, undiluted, primal reality is as beautiful as it is powerful. On the other side of the fence, the staged-for-market-impact face of corporate America, looking to dip its hands further into the super-fabulous idealogy of "you too can be a star". Would someone please hand me the vomit pail?

If one were to assess this from a cultural standpoint, how could you not draw a correlation between this band's music / performance, and the twisted, often chaotic nature of today's world? In the fact of it being both disturbing and controversial in the time during which it was created, it joins many other artists / bands that have pushed the boundaries of perception with their music: Elvis. The Beatles. Black Sabbath. KISS. Judas Priest. Marilyn Manson. Just a few that come readily to mind.

As for the impact of the Death Metal genre on guitar playing - who can argue that its lands are some of the most fertile in all of modern music? Besides rap, is there any other style of music that has branched out as successfully, or with as much pure abandon? Like it or not, that's what music is all about - - and I for one hear a lot of great things in today's hard rock / death rock music - - mostly because I decided to spend less time looking at it, and more time listening to it. Drop tunings. Alternating, noise-gated rhythms. Creative picking styles. Morphed overdrive / distortion tones. Spatial sound chemistry. Yes, its presentation is often interspersed with topics & imagery that challenge social and political boundaries, not to mention steadfast personal beliefs. But guitar-wise, there's a lot of interesting techniques and styles on display. Beauty, indeed, is in the eye of the beholder.

The pathways to glorious kindgoms often lead through dangerous lands, many of which test the will of men. Do you dare to go . . . further?

BTW - well written posts all around.
 
Nelskie, good to have you back!

Good point, lets all engage our metal zone pedals and ...boldly go where we havent gone before..... Now where did I put that Megadeth "Peace sells...." album..
 
t.O.t., I'm honored.

I guess I'll hold off linking to that Rammstein video I was thinking about. :D
 
Nelskie said:
If one were to assess this from a cultural standpoint, how could you not draw a correlation between this band's music / performance, and the twisted, often chaotic nature of today's world? In the fact of it being both disturbing and controversial in the time during which it was created, it joins many other artists / bands that have pushed the boundaries of perception with their music: Elvis. The Beatles. Black Sabbath. KISS. Judas Priest. Marilyn Manson. Just a few that come readily to mind.
Click to expand...

It is my position that this genre does nothing to change the "chaotic nature of today's world", but instead fosters it or glorifies it. It's like fighting fire with fire. You just end up with more fire.

Remember the Beatles preaching "love"? Other bands through the 1960's did it as well, and for a time there was love. It was tangible. It was in the air and you could feel it. Even though much time has passed since then, the memory of what was still lingers in the hearts of those that embraced it then.

Now on the other hand, preaching "doom", "death" and "gloom" is going to do the same thing. The people that embrace it now are going to carry it in their hearts far beyond the here and now. What sort of impact on society will that have? I loath to imagine.

Technically, the physicality to play this music is admirable. It takes skill, stamina, and knowledge, not to mention getting everyone on the same page so to speak. This I have no issues with. The messages I do.

Music has an amazing ability to foster social change. Is what these bands promote the kind of social change that you are going to be happy with? Look how much death, corruption and general wrong doing is in the world today. Will this music change that even in the smallest amount? I doubt that songs about eating corpses is going to make someone think about being nice to their neighbor.

Furthermore, the nature of the dropped tuning and low frequencies in general do not activate the higher chakras. Instead they stir the lower chakras which are primal. Those represent, sex, self preservation and general survival. In order to lift humans out of the angst that much of us currently live in the higher senses/chakras are what need to be brought into play. That can bring us into love and community, which is something that is being greatly ignored in the world today.

I seriously doubt that anyone is ever going to be sitting around a campfire singing any of these songs, but I can imagine people sitting around said fire singing (together) "Give Peace A Chance" or "All You Need Is Love."
 
Wow!! can see I pulled some chains, good!! great discussion. First off Ro3b I apologize there was a degree of shall we say vinegar in my post. Only because I took your post for being sarcastic to Robert, my bad and I do apologize to you. Sometimes the typed word doesnt convey the intended feeling. I was not at all offended by you posting a clip of something you enjoy and would never advocate that you stop posting things you enjoy. Even though it isnt conveyed too well by my post I do have an open mind LOL.

Now as for my stance with Death Metal. Spud you pretty much put many of my thoughts to print, rather well I might add. I grew up and remember waiting up on Friday and Saturday nights to hear what was called
"underground music" Hard Rock, heavy metal, acid rock, just so I could record it on my reel to reel. Music on the radio sucked that bad to me then as it does now. So I feel a great connect with that genre of music.

Unfortunately Im none too pleased with this offshoot of it. Technically it is just fantastic but musically, melodically and from a sonic standpoint I have found very few examples of what could even be loosely termed as a good mix. I have spent my share of time on a board in general their EQ is horrendous. I dont advocate telling people what they should or shouldnt listen to but by the same token I wont blow smoke up someone arse and say hey that sounds great when in fact it doesnt. I enjoy many different types of music but Death Metal and a lot of Rap just doesnt do it for me. They dont shock me nor move me and are extremely repetitive.

To me music should be like a painting but with sound, neither of these genres have a very large palette to my ears. Your limiting your self if the only colors you use are red and black.

I will leave the Chaotic nature of todays world alone as this will hold true for every generations view of how bad they had it, Dad had WW2, I had
A-bombs and Nam and so on. We all have our crosses to bear.

Again Ro3b I do apologise for getting and giving the wrong impressions. In closing this is one of the few boards were you can have and intelligent passionate discussion with many different views.
 
Ro3b said:
t.O.t., I'm honored.
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I'm honored that you're honored.

A Charles Ives reference in a Death Metal thread...I gotta say that is brilliant!
& your whole post was VERY well written.


It seems to me that that the shocking has almost lost it's shock value. Yes, I know that every coupl'a years someone finds a way, either musically, or on TV, or in film to push the limits, but we all live in such a meta world that it
one tends to file most of it away in the "Shocking Transgression" folder along with hundreds of others of examplars of the genre.

Whether darkness makes more of it's own or burns itself up in its own excess or is liberating or denigrating or fun or boring I leave to the reader. I still believe that it is deeper, more profound, subversive & radical to create art that really tweaks the mind & sets the heart on fire. Not easy to do at all.
 
Mark: no offense taken, and thanks for your post. You know, I really love it that in this day and age music can still move people to outrage. I worry about that sometimes. (When the Rite of Spring premered there were fistfists in the aisles, and the whole thing devolved into a riot in the concert hall. Amazing to think a piece of music made that happen!)
To me music should be like a painting but with sound, neither of these genres have a very large palette to my ears. Your limiting your self if the only colors you use are red and black.
Click to expand...

Like a 12-bar blues progression, or sonata form, or verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus? Shrug. I agree with you to a point, but there are stylistic things about any genre that you can play with and use as a springboard for your genius. That's true of death metal as much as any other music. (I don't hold Necrophagist up as a sterling example of that, btw -- Mohammed is a phenominal guitarist, but a much less impressive songwriter imho.)

As for rap -- well, I think it's the most important thing to happen in American popular music in the last thirty years, and as a cultural phenomenon it's more siginificant than metal by a couple of orders of magnitude. But it's also beyond the scope of this forum, so ... :D
 
Ro3b said:
As for rap -- well, I think it's the most important thing to happen in American popular music in the last thirty years, and as a cultural phenomenon it's more siginificant than metal by a couple of orders of magnitude. But it's also beyond the scope of this forum, so ... :D
Click to expand...

I agree & would only add that it had *way* more power in the early days and now it has become a settled genre like any other. That's not to say that it is dead, only it's fate is now like those of metal, rock, jazz, country etc.
I keep waiting for something completely new.

Why is it beyond the scope of this forum?
I, for one, really enjoy reading what you write.

Ro3b said:
Mark: no offense taken, and thanks for your post. You know, I really love it that in this day and age music can still move people to outrage. I worry about that sometimes. (When the Rite of Spring premered there were fistfists in the aisles, and the whole thing devolved into a riot in the concert hall. Amazing to think a piece of music made that happen!)
Click to expand...
Maybe we should go to a rendition of the Rites of Spring at the Met
and start a good fistfight. :D
 
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(When the Rite of Spring premered there were fistfists in the aisles, and the whole thing devolved into a riot in the concert hall. Amazing to think a piece of music made that happen!)

Im not at all familiar with the Rite of Spring at I will look it up and educate myself. But this brings up a serious point, the violence and rudeness and general lack of civility. I do realise each generation has examples of this. Do we want to foster the idea that art should inspire such behaviour. One of the things that has turned me and many others off to RAP is the attitude of those listening to it. My generation had loud R&R sure, but these days it has gone to a new level. When Im sitting in my living room or my car and someone listening to RAP with a trunk full of woofers so loud you cannot hear the music you enjoy and the walls and windows rattle. Im all for all types of music but not at the cost of others right to enjoy thiers.

So when you gonna post the other clip you mentioned. Ahh from who was it again............ Rogers and Hammerstien? J/K
 
Mark said:
So when you gonna post the other clip you mentioned. Ahh from who was it again............ Rogers and Hammerstien? J/K
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Rogers & Hammerstein?!? You're just asking for fisticuffs young man!


Now where'd I put my slapping glove? :D
 
History has generously forgotten Rogers and Hammerstein's foray into German industrial metal after "The King and I." Die Hügel sind lebendig mit dem Ton der Schreien von verdammten...

But this brings up a serious point, the violence and rudeness and general lack of civility. I do realise each generation has examples of this. Do we want to foster the idea that art should inspire such behaviour.
Click to expand...

If average people in our society cared enough about the aesthetics of music to come to blows over it, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

There are a bunch of reasons why these kinds of music are compelling. A lot of it has to do with understanding and coming to terms with your own dark side. As human beings, we're capable of all kinds of good things, but we also murder, rape, wage war, slow down to look at road accidents. Instead of denying that part of us and making all our art about peace 'n' love 'n' stuff, what if we explore our aggression and deathwishes and try to understand them? And have fun with them?

(When I listen to Emenem, I feel like I'm eavesdropping on his psychotherapy sessions. Some of his stuff is so self-revelatory it's painful, and nastily, savagely funny at the same time. Great artist, that guy.)

Extreme music is also a safe, effective way to frighten others and stake out your territory. You hear this cacophanous complicated thunderous music I'm playing? You hate it? It makes you want to cover your ears and run? Good! It's ME! MY music is making you feel that way. I understand its chaos; I love its loudness and the way it makes the inside of my skull itch. And I'm all about the way it jangles my lower chakras. Therefore I am strong and powerful, and your reaction demonstrates my control over my environment. (Which is why I've got Behemoth on in my cubicle right now.)
 
Ro3b said:
History has generously forgotten Rogers and Hammerstein's foray into German industrial metal after "The King and I." Die Hügel sind lebendig mit dem Ton der Schreien von verdammten...



If average people in our society cared enough about the aesthetics of music to come to blows over it, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

There are a bunch of reasons why these kinds of music are compelling. A lot of it has to do with understanding and coming to terms with your own dark side. As human beings, we're capable of all kinds of good things, but we also murder, rape, wage war, slow down to look at road accidents. Instead of denying that part of us and making all our art about peace 'n' love 'n' stuff, what if we explore our aggression and deathwishes and try to understand them? And have fun with them?

(When I listen to Emenem, I feel like I'm eavesdropping on his psychotherapy sessions. Some of his stuff is so self-revelatory it's painful, and nastily, savagely funny at the same time. Great artist, that guy.)

Extreme music is also a safe, effective way to frighten others and stake out your territory. You hear this cacophanous complicated thunderous music I'm playing? You hate it? It makes you want to cover your ears and run? Good! It's ME! MY music is making you feel that way. I understand its chaos; I love its loudness and the way it makes the inside of my skull itch. And I'm all about the way it jangles my lower chakras. Therefore I am strong and powerful, and your reaction demonstrates my control over my environment. (Which is why I've got Behemoth on in my cubicle right now.)
Click to expand...

This will be my last post on this so here ya go.

You sound fairly intelligent and I dont know your age but I would suggest you print your post and read it in ten years or so. I have personally lived the evil you are elluding to first hand. Its not fun nor is it something to celebrate or have fun with, many of my peers are dead now because of it. I think many that subscribe to your thinking above have never been subjected to the hell you describe other than in their video games. Let me assure when you live it you wont want to have fun with or celebrate it. There aint no art in watching your brothers blood running out by the gallon. Your are foolhearty in thinking your music and its loudness scares people, maybe some not all and definately not people like me son.

Now the this thing with your loudness marking a territory. When your woofers are blaring and I can hear it in my house or the young mother in the car next to you with her baby sleeping in the car seat is getting rousted by your supposed art. Is this something that empowers you? What about your brother, sister,daughter or son getting mauled in one these art inspired brawls you mentioned. I wonder have YOU spilled YOUR own blood in any of this? Are ya willing to?

Funny your post reminds me of these middle class white kids we have around here dressed like inner city gangbangers and trying to live off their rep. Id love to take a busload of em to South central LA or Bed/Stuy. For a little reality 101.

Finally a little advice that may save your life. There are people in this world and we dont get intimidated with your theatrics at all. In my day what you described is selling wolf tickets and son if your selling them you best be prepared for takers and heartbreakers. I would further suggest you bring something more than those woofers to that fight that will happen sooner or later. All in all its been an interesting thread but Ill be dropping it here as this is really starting to stain up Roberts house and Id like to respect his territory.

Ro3b I wish you well.

PS Just pondering here, art aside, what has been so bad in ones existence to get "thrilled" about people fighting over music. Getting thrilled over any violence especially over something a trivial as music is pretty sad. Hopefully its something you can come to terms with.
 
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